batman saves the joker

#5 - doctorshrinker#415 on commentsRank#415

Reply+60

(08/19/2017)[-]

This is honestly where the whole logic of The New 52 and even preceding perspectives on comics began to break down.

When the Joker was replacing the town's water supply with jelly; vandalizing monuments of great Presidents with fake moustaches and such with marker; or at the very most committing a series of heists where any victims got a pie in the face or a high dry cleaning bill from a water spritzer, this made sense. Why should Batman kill somebody? Why should he commit an atrocity worse than them?

Then, Batman Returns was released; where the future is a dystopian 80s where Gotham is infected with crime and corruption. Here, Batman's logic was changed but it still made sense. Yes, the Joker or another baddy shot somebody, and that's horrific; but being an extention of the people's collective might against injustice, he can't fall to that. Lest he represent the fallibility of collective opposition and do-goodery.

Finally, it broke apart. When the Joker began using his laughing gas in a manner so that the person is either killed or permanently stuck in that way; when the Riddler began setting up SAW-esque traps; or when Mr. Freeze began freezing people and then breaking them apart, it all went out the window. Victor Zazz is a good example of this. The ****** has literal tallies of the people he kills; he may be mentally sick, but how doesn't that constitute the electric chair? If your argument is Gotham's corrupt legal system, how exactly doesn't it bring in the hand of federal courts? Batman can't sit by. There comes a moment when it becomes just too much. A scene like this? Batman not only letting the Joker live by his own hand, but saving him from dying by another's? It's ridiculous and insulting.

It's reasons like this that superheroes suck anymore. That, SJW pandering, Squirrel Girl, and so forth. Marvel may be worse, but DC has never been great in its logic department.

#10 to #5 - yourevsyour#444 on commentsRank#444

Reply+10

(08/19/2017)[-]

The fundamental difference between a villain and a hero is that the villain believes that any means justify his end. So he's willing to do anything, even kill others or commit crimes, to accomplish his goal.

Batman's already breaking the law to be a vigilante, if he kills whomever he thinks is "bad enough" to deserve it, he's literally no different from someone like Magneto. I agree that in the Joker's case it breaks down somewhat because he literally has one of the highest body counts in the DC universe, but that's really the justice system's fault for refusing to give him the death penalty every time Batman drags him in.

#26 to #10 - anon id: d1c591b2

Reply+2

(08/19/2017)[-]

Stopping crimes in progress (part 1 of vigilantism) is legal
Punishing criminals (part 2 of vigilantism) is illegal

While Batman is borderline, he's technically not doing anything illegal (breaking-and-entering and trespassing charges aside)

#12 to #10 - fuckyouto

Reply+2

(08/19/2017)[-]

But he's not killing Joker, Punisher would...

#24 to #10 - anon id: 0e7a08a6

Reply0

(08/19/2017)[-]

I dont think what makes a villain different is that he thinks the means justifies the ends. I think a true villain is either evil in that he know what he is doing is wrong but does it anyway or just for that reason. Or wants something that the hero doesnt support or agree with. For example Joker is just like i want to kill some people, cause chaos and mess with batman. Batman wants to save those people and stop joker because that is against what he thinks is good. I dont think i explained it clearly as i wanted tho.

#9 to #5 - zorach

Reply+7

(08/19/2017)[-]

The character was introduced in Batman #1 (1940), in which he announces that he will kill three of Gotham's prominent citizens (including Mayor Henry Claridge). Although the police protect Claridge, the Joker had poisoned him before making his announcement and Claridge dies with a ghastly grin on his face; Batman eventually defeats him, sending him to prison.[70] The Joker commits whimsical, brutal crimes for reasons that, in Batman's words, "make sense to him alone".

Don't act like the joker started out as a light-hearted prankster.

#16 to #9 - doctorshrinker#415 on commentsRank#415

Reply+1

(08/19/2017)[-]

Didn't make sense then either. If you look at his further counts of his murders, it goes from Batman Comics #1-9, and then stops until Batman #251 in 1973.

And again, these are "small" murders. Not the Joker commiting ******* mass genocide.

But start comparing the average plots of the Silver Age and so forth.

#15 to #5 - snapdragonswitch

Reply+3

(08/19/2017)[-]

The argument they put forward for that is if batman killed, he described it as his own falling from grace. Once he would kill someone, his control tendencies would go into over drive, ala superman in injustice. It kinda makes sense, but they could still bother to evolve the argument more.

#27 to #5 - loganmadder#84 on commentsRank#84

Reply+1

(08/19/2017)[-]

I like to imagine that I'm not killing people as his heroic flaw. Sort of like a mental illness. Because his parents were killed he can't stand killing

#13 to #5 - foodyquest#228 on contentRank#228

Reply+1

(08/19/2017)[-]

Ditto

#8 to #5 - testaburger

Reply+1

(08/19/2017)[-]

Just lock him up until he's safe to release (which will likely be never)
The problem with applying our morals to the DC universe is that it's fundamentally different from ours.
In our universe, convicts don't usually escape prison, and certainly not that many times. Or, if he's actually being released (I'm not that into the lore), that wouldn't happen either. We don't release obvious psychos from prison

And it's at this point in my comment that I realize that I've been applying my own morals to a universe that's fundamentally different from our own, which is ironic, as it's what I'm accusing you of.

Yeah, Batman should definitely kill him.

#18 to #8 - zorach

Reply+1

(08/19/2017)[-]

Question for all people of all countries: isn't serving the rest of your time in prison if it turns out you're not actually insane an international thing? Because I seem to remember a comic where Joker gets out of Arkham and no one can figure out how he did it. Turns out he convinced the Arkham staff that he wasn't actually insane, just pretending. If that happened here he would get thrown into prison, not released into society.

#29 to #5 - lobstersamurai

Reply0

(08/20/2017)[-]

And honestly in a real world scenario there would only be a few instances of this kind of stuff happening before police death squads start becoming a thing and try killing any supervillain brought in or that they run across on the street

#28 to #5 - anon id: fcb16883

Reply0

(08/19/2017)[-]

I never understood the hate for Batman not killing, even when the Joker was a serial killer. Who is he to play judge, jury and executioner? He does his duty by making sure the Joker is arrested, it's the judicial systems fault if they don't use the death penalty.

#14 - subaqueousreach

Reply+5

(08/19/2017)[-]

And this is why Batman is the worst hero. I dont care about his personal quams about killing. He knows the Joker is going to kill more people. What else is he gonna do? Sure Batman will lock him up, but he'll just get out again and kill more people. Its inevitable and frankly, its getting lazy.

"But if you kill a killer the number of killers in the world is the same" you say, but the Punisher responds "Not if I kill two killers"

#25 to #14 - anon id: d1c591b2

Reply+2

(08/19/2017)[-]

Tell that to Gotham's criminal justice system. Batman just apprehends the perps, he doesn't decide what happens to 'em.

Gotham represents a 'realist' (often pessimist) perspective of the early 20th century Progressive Movement, as notable in the Art Deco style and 5-minutes-into-the-future tech found in most incarnations. A huge part of that is a justice system focused on rehabilitation instead of punishment; thus, no capital punishment (which happens to allow recurring villains even when Batman wins).

For all the darkness and grit around Batman, his focus on "JUSTICE!!!!" is more about justice toward the victim (i.e. protection) than justice toward the perpetrator (i.e. revenge).

#3 - gedoushinken

Reply+4

(08/19/2017)[-]

No laughs or jokes from the Joker? This **** is getting serious even for the Joker.

#4 to #3 - anon id: bc62b952

Reply+5

(08/19/2017)[-]

**anonymous used "*roll picture*"**
**anonymous rolled image**Cause Punisher don't play.

#11 to #3 - Sterski#52 on commentsRank#52

Reply+3

(08/19/2017)[-]

Cause he knows damn well that unlike Bats, Punisher had every intention to kill him right then and there.

#1 - bearzerk

Reply+5

(08/19/2017)[-]

Slightly higher rez for your viewing pleasure.

#6 to #1 - shadowdoogen

Reply0

(08/19/2017)[-]

I want all of it

#7 to #6 - bearzerk

Reply+3

(08/19/2017)[-]

I could upload all of it but that'd be a lot of work, so here's the link to it(dot)

#17 to #7 - therealhimmler#495 on commentsRank#495

Reply+1

(08/19/2017)[-]

Thanks! I have one Batman-Punisher crossover, but no almost-killed-the-joker blueballs in it. However it wasn't as good as the one you linked, even with the lack of rage-inducing batman-white-knightery.

#2 - lazysans

Reply+4

(08/19/2017)[-]

WHEN WILL HE ******* CHANGE?!

#19 - sanbonzakura

Reply+3

(08/19/2017)[-]

Click to show spoiler

last week i was at a party and the host said to my friend "i really want you and your friend to **** my wife while i watch", in the middle he stoped us and said "i cant watch this anymore...you boys seem dehydrated" and he brought us some gatorades and cookies while we went another round
despite all that batman is still a bigger cuck