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Age. .. Age 17: Why yes you can be conscripted!

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Views: 29508 Submitted: 03/20/2017

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asd

#2 - kewolsky

Reply +512 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Age 17: Why yes you can be conscripted!

#97 to #2 - jackleeswagger

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Isn't a military ID just as good as an over 21 ID to get alcohol?

#105 to #97 - chrysaor

Reply +64 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Only if you're actually 21. It's valid ID, but it doesn't magically make you of drinking age.

#110 to #105 - xgolgothax

Reply +9 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

States independently set their legal drinking ages, all have set it at 21 because there are department of transportation funds for roads and highways that are withheld from states that go below that age. The form of ID is irrelevant, you must be 21 by state statute.

#144 to #110 - anon id: e80a306d

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Negative, jackieeswagger is correct. Upon joining the military you may obtain the right to drink when certain conditions are met and in the end circumventing the entire age law.

#197 to #144 - terminalinfinity

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

No you are ******* wrong. Only South Carolina allows Service members to drink, regardless of age. Everywhere else its illegal.

Even if they "look the other way" on certain military bases or VFW posts, its still not legal.

undertheradar.military.com/2015/03/sound-off-lo...
www.vice.com/en_us/article/should-underage-sold...
popularmilitary.com/bill-introduced-allow-under...

#217 to #144 - spacefield

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

am military
can confirm are wrong.

#155 to #110 - AztecJew

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Is that really the root reason for the drinking age? I'd like to read more into that

#137 to #97 - Sunburn

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

There are some places where if you're old enough to die for your country, you're old enough to drink... the US is not one of them. You have to be 21.

#145 to #137 - archiethesailor

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I don't know how true that is. According to my dad, who was in the military for 20 years, if you lived on base, you could be served alcohol before turning 21.

#151 to #145 - Sunburn

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

That is no longer the case. You have to be 21 now. You can drink with people you know (who buy the liquor), as long as your chain of command doesn't know. But you can not purchase alcohol anymore under the age of 21 in the military.

#165 to #151 - SheWolfie

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Depending on the Liquor store, sometimes you could just say you don't have your driver's license and show a Military ID. Some cheaper, run down stores will sell it to you

#164 to #151 - archiethesailor

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Well, that's pretty disappointing. At least I know now.

#162 to #151 - anon id: 61760c0f

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I know you were speaking about the US in particular, but i thought you might like to know that if you're a US soldier stationed overseas, the drinking age is changed to the host country's drinking age. In Germany, I could purchase alcohol from the class six/shopette at 18.

#198 to #162 - Sunburn

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

I was stationed in Korea last year in the US Army, if you were under 21 you received severe punishment if you imbibed alcohol. And the person who bought it for you was in deeper trouble. I'm not sure when you were in or which branch, so it may have been different for your circumstances.

#221 to #198 - absolutedisgust

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

US Army, Germany

#166 to #162 - phillycheeseblunt

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I don't think that extends to all branches. It's at the discretion of the CO for Navy/USMC

#146 to #97 - lolrushero

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

depends, its still illegal if you're underage, but most places will see it and let you in, for the most part they dont care.

#81 to #2 - alphagex

Reply +14 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

thank god somebody else said it or else i was going to mention it

#7 to #2 - itsgnar

Reply +32 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I shiit that hits low.
But what is he doing in a bar (maybe) alone though.

#67 to #7 - stalkerexplain

Reply +13 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

R A R E F L A G

#68 to #67 - itsgnar

Reply +17 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

It's peru, shut the **** up.

#70 to #68 - stalkerexplain

Reply +61 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Looks like counterfeit Canada to be honest

#79 to #70 - comexx

Reply +15 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

#189 to #70 - kingxcvii

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Savage

#138 to #7 - Sunburn

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Could be in a restaurant that serves alcohol.

#118 to #7 - leafonthewind

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

well his friend isn't there to go with him

#89 to #7 - sociocat

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

EEEEY GNAR

#95 to #89 - itsgnar

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Ey boi

#100 to #95 - sociocat

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

how ya doin bro

#101 to #100 - itsgnar

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Doin fine lad, doin fine.

#61 to #2 - ddoggdiggity

Reply +32 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

#53 to #2 - tobyrho

Reply +34 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

#75 to #53 - kageken

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

What is this image from?

#115 to #75 - tobyrho

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I stole it from another guy who didnt have a source aswell

#3 to #2 - emperorwatergate

Reply +37 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

wait

is conscription still a thing in the US

#8 to #3 - sgtmajjohnson

Reply +92 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

We are registered with Selective Service when we turn 18, in case the country needs to use conscripted troops again. However, draftees haven't been used in decades and are unlikely to be used again in the future because of the massive numbers and increased morale of volunteer troops that the U.S. has at present.

#219 to #8 - spacefield

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

unless you're in the navy
"Cleaning will continue until morale improves."

#20 to #3 - masdercheef

Reply +59 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

The situation is basically "there isn't any draft but we're still gonna register you just in case we do end up needing it due to some horrible, calamitous event"

#83 to #20 - anon id: 0645406a

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Right, like nuclear war with China...

#114 to #83 - thegrimgenius

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I don't think you'll need conscription in a nuclear war.

#19 to #3 - dyelfagget

Reply +14 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

We have a law where everyone signs up to be conscripted should it become necessary. But it hasn't been used since Vietnam. The joke of the comic is that you can enter the military at 18 and do all that **** while still being under 21 the minimum age to drink alcohol.

#167 to #19 - marinepenguin

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

You can join as early as 17 if you have parental consent.

#171 to #167 - dyelfagget

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Technically true but usually you won't ever be an active duty member of the service until after you have turned 18. Even if you enlist at 17 you usually won't finish highschool and boot camp and your mos school before 18.

#173 to #171 - marinepenguin

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

There were two guys who were 17 that I went through all my training with. One turned 18 in training, the other turned 18 maybe 3 months after entering his job.

I think you're right in most cases turning 18 before they finish training, but it's not a rule that you have to be 18 to start active service.

#10 to #3 - kewolsky

Reply +14 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I have service Duty, all males from 17 to 45 in the kingdom of the Netherlands has it and can be called upon to be medically and mentally checked and if approved conscripted in the military.
Article 89 of our constitution.

#30 to #3 - boeka

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Finnish conscription..
War never changes.

#5 to #3 - usarmyexplain

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

No, its not.

#4 to #3 - lexbomber

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Yes, though we haven't used it since Vietnam because there hasn't been a large enough need to use it

#6 to #4 - usarmyexplain

Reply +15 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

The current force level of around 2 million service members counting active, reserve, and guard is actually maintained without conscription. No, we do not need conscripts. If there is a war that requires more than 2 million people to fight, conscripts aren't going to help

#59 to #6 - bobducky

Reply +14 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

But god help the world if we need more than 2 million.

#9 to #6 - lexbomber

Reply +7 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Ah, alright. Thanks for setting the record straight buddy

#204 to #6 - powerlesscheese

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

I'm sure if we we were invaded by some extraterrestrial force that doesn't know the concept of surrender we probably would just like any other country. Granted its extremely unlikely but not an impossible sanaerio.

#211 to #204 - usarmyexplain

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

If we get invaded then all bets are off and its full on Red Dawn

#213 to #211 - powerlesscheese

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Ayefairenough.png

#194 to #3 - powerlesscheese

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Yes but it will take nothing short of WWIII for us to actually use conscripts again

#15 to #3 - sketchE

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

the draft is still on the books and youre expected to register for it but it hasnt happened since what nam?

#11 to #3 - Kanoah

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Conscription is still a thing in, like, tons of countries. First world countries, too.

#25 to #3 - Tyranitar

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Every male citizen must sign up for it upon hitting 18, even though we haven't used it since Vietnam.

Won't do us any damn good, though. If things get bad enough that we need it, a lot of us are getting the hell out. I'd honestly prefer to go to jail for attempted dodging.

#14 - grimfuck

Reply +96 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

under 16 is not "we dont trust you" its "we dont trust the employer"

#29 - sourcedasher

Reply +54 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Not to burst your bubble, but that's not how it works.
Kids aren't just given meds and surgeries out of nowhere. They gotta talk to psychologist and other specialists before anything is done.

#40 to #29 - anon id: bdded361

Reply -10 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I can't tell if you're trolling or genuinely retarded.

#143 to #29 - anon id: c5ac4aeb

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I do agree with you, as the post clearly states bodily surgery. I think the OP would be better if it instead stated the use of HRT and how it steralises you, resulting it in being a drastic body alteration almost on par with the mentioned surgery. Nothing is stopping parents from ordering HRT on the internet and letting their kids use them. HRT steralises you, and that is an extremely big choice to make for someone around e.g. the age of 12.

#31 to #29 - sugoi

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I don't think talking to a psychologist and other specialists are gunna let them drink, drive, and get a job though.

#33 to #31 - sourcedasher

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Drinking, driving licenses and jobs have nothing to do with a psychological problem.
Not to mention this image only represents the US and nothing else.

#34 to #33 - sugoi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Yes but you can get permanent life changing surgery by having a chat but you can't drink, drive, or get a job at that age by having a little chat.

I assume the psychological and specialist chats are to evaluate if you are of sound mind and to diagnose you with Gender Dysphoria which is fair enough but considering the recent campaigning to remove Gender Dysphoria as an illness I wonder how long left do people still need that psychological and specialist chats?

And I don't know why you would bring that up without bringing up another country to support your argument. We both know we're only talking about America.

#35 to #34 - sourcedasher

Reply +8 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

>having a little chat

You do realize that the kid would go and talk to those specialists for more than 1 time, right? It's a procedure that takes years and all those psychologists/doctors will follow alongside it. I am pretty sure that a psychologist and all those other people have had enough training in their life to determine the state of their patient.
I am pretty sure they can tell when it's "just a phase" or the parents pushing their kid into it.

Regulating alcohol, drugs, sexual intercourse, media and driving licenses isn't comparable to a sex change.
Also I brought up "this is only about the US", because of the other statements with "you need to be 21 to drink and so on".

#62 to #35 - anon id: 71fdf447

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Psychology is such a **** science in general and standards to become a psychologist aren't great. Very few people with the capacity to be great psychologists go into the field because there are better options for someone with their mind. No, i don't trust those psychologists. I'm considerably more favorable towards regular doctors, however.

#122 to #35 - wertologist

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Think of it this way.

Why do you think those other laws are in place?

#37 to #35 - sugoi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I never said anything about it being just a phase.
I never said anything about it not taking years (It won't because they have relatively short tests for this sort of thing)
I never said they wouldn't have proper training and aren't qualified to make these decisions.

I said that the diagnosis they will make is Gender Dysphoria which is what the disease is listed under in ICD-10 however there have been movements to remove Gender Dysphoria as a disease like how being gay is no longer considered a disease. If their campaigning is to succeed then is it really necessary for year long psychological and specialist visits to diagnose something that is no longer considered a disease anymore?

You are getting off topic completely.
No one mentioned Drugs.
No one mentioned Sex.
No one mentioned the media.

Are you projecting? Because it feels like you're projecting onto me as because I haven't said any of these things, you're either projecting or trying (poorly) to make a strawman to argue.

Yes well done unfortunately we both knew it was about America and the 21 year old age restriction doesn't change much in terms of the discussion. Are you bringing up irrelevant information just to sound smart like some shady nutritionist that spouts ******** then brings up a few irrelevant facts so that the clients think "well I know that's true so the rest must be true too!"

#38 to #37 - sourcedasher

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

You are getting off topic completely.
No one mentioned Drugs.
No one mentioned Sex.
No one mentioned the media.

OP's image posted mentions all that, you ******* moron. Are you legit retarded?

#39 to #38 - sugoi

Reply -5 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Ooh nice job completely avoiding my points and going for an ad hominem. Real smooth move there buddy you're pretty much confirmed for being completely retarded but I'll humour you for one more post.

It's very clear you've no idea what you're talking about which is why you're just arguing semantics now instead of staying on topic on why it's completely retarded children can make the decision to take permanent life changing cosmetic surgery but no let's go argue semantics like you want.

You mentioned Drugs and Alcohol as separate items on your list so where's Drugs on OP's content then? Big surprise it's not up there you're retarded.

Where's the media? OP clearly said video games, looks like you're a legit retard.

#42 to #39 - sourcedasher

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Also forgot to address that "Where's the media? OP clearly said video games, looks like you're a legit retard."

Guess what jackass, videogames are media ******* moron. Videogames are rated by the ESRB, same goes for other things like music and movies which are also rated by different boards.

#43 to #42 - sugoi

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

You really are retarded, saying "Media" in this context is about retarded as saying "Drugs" when we're talking specifically about Heroine.

I don't want you to go kill yourself friend but please get circumcised to spare the world from another generation of your idiocy.

>>#41,
If you weren't retarded you'd notice what I said twice now in my previous comment. I know you're retarded so I'll do the hard work and quote myself and point it out for you in BOLD for your convenience, aren't I nice?

>>#37
"I said that the diagnosis they will make is Gender Dysphoria which is what the disease is listed under in ICD-10 however there have been movements to remove Gender Dysphoria as a disease like how being gay is no longer considered a disease. If their campaigning is to succeed then is it really necessary for year long psychological and specialist visits to diagnose something that is no longer considered a disease anymore? "

>>#34
"
I assume the psychological and specialist chats are to evaluate if you are of sound mind and to diagnose you with Gender Dysphoria which is fair enough but considering the recent campaigning to remove Gender Dysphoria as an illness I wonder how long left do people still need that psychological and specialist chats?"

#44 to #43 - sourcedasher

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Videogames are a form of media and both alcohol and cigarettes (which cigs weren't included in the image, pls forgive me already you moron) are also considered drugs, legal drugs you moron.
Stop trying to force an argument about something which doesn't deserve and argument you ******* retarded aussie cunt.

#41 to #39 - sourcedasher

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Oh ****, I'm sorry then. Drugs as in cigarettes weren't on there. Well, point still holds that the picture mentions alcohol, sex, media (videogames) and jobs.
****, sorry that I added 1 more thing on my own ******* list, you ******* moron.

All I said with my first comment was:

Not to burst your bubble, but that's not how it works.
Kids aren't just given meds and surgeries out of nowhere. They gotta talk to psychologist and other specialists before anything is done.

Which is true and you ******* moron tried to argue with that and twist my sentences around, **** off cunt.

#47 to #41 - animalsgreenberet

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

sourcedasher and sugoi can't we all just get along? maybe we can all get together ans watch some scat porn while we talk about cutting off peoples genitals?

or we could just go back to looking at funny pictures like normal people.

#52 to #47 - sourcedasher

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I commented about the picture and its message is just plain retarded.
Then this ******* asshole comes along and tries to argue with me about "if this and that and blahblah then what about that?".

I am not an expert on what's going on in people's heads and I never will be. I will not try to argue in something that I don't know anything about.
What I do know is that psychologist and other people who work with transgender people have enough knowledge and education to determine whether their patients are actually feeling that way or if they're only pretending because they're in a phase or their parents are trying to push them into it.

#193 to #37 - benshapiro

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

hey buddy let me tell you my side of the argument
www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkONHNXGfaM

#242 to #193 - sugoi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Can you summarise it in 10 words or less?

#55 to #37 - twiceasfun

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

>remove gender dysphoria as a disease

The existence of the diagnosis 'gender dysphoria' is the result of transgenderism already being declared nonpathological years ago

#36 to #29 - kingderps

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

The results of these procedures seems to invalidate them.

#28 - amuzen

Reply +17 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

A flawed argument based on misrepresenting the facts. You need parental consent to undergo surgery before the age of 18. Similarly someone could buy video games, have sex, get a job and even drink at home well before the ages listed here if they have parental consent. The reason is because parents are legally responsible for everything a minor does so before they're allowed to do anything potentially stupid they have to run it through the filter of the one responsible for their actions first which is perfectly fair.

That being said anyone that consents to letting their kids gets a sex change before they finish puberty is a ******* degenerate and shouldn't be allowed to raise children.

#94 to #28 - nightsnlper

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

now who is misinterpreting the facts? if a child acts out enough they can do hormone therapy without the parents consent by the state bypassing parental rights, just like in child abuse cases because ignoring trans rights is on par with childabuse according to the law, the surgery would be the same thing but it would be a harder process

#147 to #94 - amuzen

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

that's outrageous, I'm going to need a source of a case where this happened and the state didn't just throw the kid into child services because of abuse.

#121 - chimechosoul

Reply +11 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

>Alcohol

Plot Twist: Alcohol shouldn't be trusted with anyone. Grown adults are going to abuse it sooner or later.

#130 to #121 - mixedfeelings

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

i bet you think systembolaget is a good thing fgt

#148 to #121 - anon id: b327d6b3

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I use it correctly.

#77 - Lloydles

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

i mean i don't really give a **** but it makes a big difference to your development what happens to you when you go through puberty- dude will probably look like a dude later on if he had dude hormones and **** during puberty, however if dude has lady hormones during that **** he's gonna be more convincing as a female later on.

so it makes sense that the process can be done then as that's the best time to get the result you want.

#64 - elcreepo

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

The reason for this, and I'm not saying I approve of it at all, is because the hormone therapy and surgery works best if you do it while young, otherwise they get Jenner'd. Also apparently they use the defense that it reduces the rate of suicides among trans teens.

Personally I don't think that particular surgery should even be legal. We don't allow surgery for people who suffer from body integrity disorder and xenomelia where your brain rejects your limbs' existence and you feel like you need to be an amputee , we instead treat the disorder. Why should it be different for reproductive bits? Dypshoria is dysphoria regardless of if it's a limb or a penis.

#76 to #64 - vellichor

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Before 18, they don't really prescribe the kinds of hormones you're thinking about (usually, anyways. There are always unusual circumstances, but we'll stick to the norm). They just prescribe puberty-blockers, which don't feminize or androgenize. They just stop the body from doing either of those things. They can be safely stopped and the child will continue to undergo puberty as normal.

As for surgery, I don't see why we don't allow people to have limbs removed. As long as it can be done safely- and be shown to improve the QoL of the majority of people undergoing it, I don't really see the problem.

#111 to #76 - elcreepo

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Well then why are they authorizing the surgery in some states if they don't prescribe the hormone treatment? It's usually the last step before surgery.

As for improving the quality of life, ha, no. Removing a healthy limb renders a person disabled for life. It is against everything in modern medicine, and affects tax payers who would need to use their money to pay for these people's mental illness' ramifications. That's why we don't do it.

As for transgender, you're putting them at risk of severe complications, especially as they age. You're basically playing to their delusions instead of treating them, with massive expenses involved, and if the 'penis' becomes necrotic or the breast implants explode and become septic, you're potentially disabling them for life, which affects tax payers.

It'd be somewhat okay to allow this in 18+ individuals with a contract saying that any complications they get as a result of their decision are at their expense. This goes for any healthy person going through optional surgeries.

But when the surgery is done to a kid who is naturally going to be dysphoric anyway look me in the eyes and tell me that at 12 you weren't insecure about something for whatever reason , when we won't even let that kid drink alcohol due to the life-altering consequences... it's wrong, and the kid should not be allowed that decision until they're 18. Regardless of suicide rates, regardless of quality of life, and regardless of how much therapy they went through. They are not capable of making that decision rationally, nor can they fully understand the complications. When you get your wisdom teeth removed, or your tonsils out, your parents had to sign their consent for that, same goes for any other surgery. But as trans is a personal decision, parents can't and should not legally consent. So why are some states giving 13 year olds the right to consent to that one, MAJOR surgery?

Not to mention, the laws haven't even fully caught up with trans people, so the discrimination and other issues they'll face need to be understood and faced long before they decide to **** their reproductive system over.

Even after 18+ though, the treatment should never be to play to the delusions- we don't do it for any other mental illness but this one. It should be therapy, with the knowledge that this behavior is unnatural and abnormal. Yeah therapy sucks and I can speak from experience, yeah ****** hard, and yeah you'll be miserable, that's why you're there.

Anxiety sufferers are not generally allowed to just stay locked in their homes, especially if they're children again, I speak from experience . Same goes for depressed people. Schizophrenics are not told their voices are real and normal. People with Munchhausen's and hypochondria are never to be told their pain is real.

Does it decrease their quality of life? Yeah, while they're struggling with it. And many do kill themselves. But the alternative would harm them even worse, and not only that, it'd harm society. Also, regardless of treatment, many still kill themselves- it's no different for trans, because they know deep down that they can never truly be the gender they wanted to be. Those who opt to lop off a limb aren't happy, either, because they now have to accept that they let their illness get the better of them. In some cases it can even result in a worsening of the condition, leading them to try and amputate all their limbs or blind themselves or go deaf.

The difference is that people accept and understand that people with other mental illnesses need help, but when it comes to gender dysphoria suddenly it's okay and they've been 'born wrong' and all other matter of nonscientific mumbo jumbo.

#125 to #111 - vellichor

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

You're going to have to show me sources of people who are not born intersex getting surgery before hormones on any large scale.

The small scale is harder to answer- a person's medical needs differs, and is kept confidential. So in those rare few cases where it does happen (and I don't know of any, but I'll accept that there's probably been a few just through sheer odds), it'd be up to that person and their doctor to disclose the information.

Regarding QoL, then that'd be the difference. Surgery has been shown, for the majority of people, to improve QoL.

The treatment actually is the surgery and hormones. That's the medically recognized treatment- other methods have proven unsuccessful, and generally only work to worsen the issue. With the penis, I'm not sure what you're referring to. However, I'll say this- every surgery has inherent risks to it. That doesn't mean that we simply forego treatment, especially if the risks are small. As for BA, that's not really a trans thing. The breasts form naturally from the estrogen- some people will get BA, sure, but that's just a thing among all women.

Dysphoric is not insecurity. It's not "oh, I'm nervous". It's the brain being mismatched with the body. The brain of a person with GD is not the brain of their sex. All that point shows is that you don't know about what you're speaking against.

"regardless of suicide rates, we shouldn't let people get treatment"
aaaand that's where I'm stopping. This is showing you don't actually give a **** about treatment or people, and would rather people just die than do something you personally find uncomfortable.

#127 to #125 - elcreepo

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(03/20/2017) [-]

I never said what you quoted at the end. Please reread because I'm not continuing this discussion if you refuse.

You're equating pandering to their delusions with treatment. It is NOT treatment. Treatment is therapy, and other psychiatric care.

But nice, put words in my mouth.

#132 to #127 - anon id: 393797c9

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

"I'm not continuing this discussion"
lol you wouldn't be continuing this discussion anyways dude, the other person already said that they weren't continuing

#135 to #132 - elcreepo

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

You'd be surprised how many people say that and then don't

#124 to #64 - Elk

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

... Do you seriously struggle to see the difference between the two?

#128 to #124 - elcreepo

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

No, because there is no difference. Either way you're destroying a functioning healthy part of someone's body.

#129 to #128 - Elk

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

No arms/legs vs different genitals lol...

#131 to #129 - anon id: 393797c9

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

wait, are you telling me you don't use your genitals to walk around?
What are you, some kind of nerd?

#150 - ohnotheyfoundme

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

To be fair, not drinking alcohol when you're younger is less of a trust thing and more a matter of your brain still developing and the negative effects alcohol can have on said development. Still kinda arbitrary since your brain doesn't really finish developing for these purposes until 25, so 21 is still a pretty arbitrary point.

#153 to #150 - iamthepapercut

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Yeah that's nothing like hormone therapy at the ripe old age of 12, which is definitely safe

#157 to #153 - ohnotheyfoundme

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Well, playing devils advocate, that's actually the period during which those sort of treatments will be most effective in terms of influencing the change desired. Inhibiting the hormones of puberty and undergoing hormone treatments will be much more effective during puberty than it will be afterwards.

That being said, it's still not a good idea, as one's psychological state changes drastically as we mature, especially during puberty: what might have seemed like a great idea beforehand may not seem so a few years later, and it's really hard to change your mind in the middle of something like this, the changes are already happening.

In short, hormone treatments during puberty is one of those things that seems reasonable based purely on biological theory but kinda foolish viewed from the lenses of common sense and psychology.

#159 to #157 - iamthepapercut

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Yes, and another way of wording that would be "that's actually the period during which those sort of treatments will do the most damage" and the fact is there simply has not been nearly enough empirical research on the long term psychological effects of things like this. Society moved way faster than the science on this subject, and the law is soon going to follow suit. Worst of all, any research that may've been possible a decade ago is now and will for the foreseeable future be impossible to do because of social stigma, nobody's gonna fund it, so we could very well end up doing irreparable psychological and physical damage to a generation or more of confused youths in the name of social "progress" and virtue signalling.

Sorry I get why you're arguing this way but **** gets my blood boiling. Western society is becoming a malignant tumor that's slowly killing people who need legitimate help while telling itself it's helping them, just to feel good. That's all these people care about is that what they say and support makes them feel superior and their anger vindicated. Can't ******* stand it.

#163 to #159 - ohnotheyfoundme

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I think the best point you made here is the lack of information: simply put, we don't know enough about the effects of this sort of thing. And we should always be uneasy about making decisions that permanently effect people's lives based on extremely limited information. Again, I totally understand the theory behind undergoing a process like this when one is young, but as you indicate, I'd like some more reassurance that it's safe.

#169 to #153 - vellichor

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(03/21/2017) [-]

I mean
It is safe

It's not like endocrinologists just throw **** together and hope it works. They've done the studies, they've researched, and there simply isn't any unexpected negatives.
By unexpected, I mean that there are certain harms which are to be expected- for instance, MtF people are more likely to experience breast cancer than they would be had they not transitioned, simply because that's an aspect of the estrogen.

#241 to #169 - iamthepapercut

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Show me the studies, because literally every article or journal I've read recommends no HRT until a minimum of 16, mostly because the effects of it are permanent and research suggests most prepubescent children with "gender dysphoria" actually grow out of it www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25231780 , and as for long term effects the closest thing I can find is a survey of those who went through the currently recommended path of puberty blockers early on, followed by hormones, then reassignment www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-teens-become-h... which suggests positive results in those that actually follow through with the surgeries, but it only covered the subjects up to a year after their surgeries. Not exactly long term.

#133 - anon id: 393797c9

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I feel like whoever made this post doesn't know anything about trans people except what they hear from fox news

#142 to #133 - Kallie

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Considering how most here understand fox is pretty damn backwards just like all media imma say no... What they most likely have dealt with quite frequently is sjw and libtards pushing so hard to make sure the world is full of snowflakes that they take children seriously when they say they want to be the opposite gender. There are ELEMENTARY schools allowing children to transition. until you are sexually mature and even some time after you are not old enough to understand what a monumentally life-wrecking change it could be. But your anon and this is most likely just bait sooo

#170 to #142 - anon id: 853fc1fe

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Clarify what you mean by transition.
Are you referring to social transition? If so, there's no negative impact from that.
If you're referring to medical transition, that's going to be puberty blockers at that age, and once again, there's been shown to have no negative impact

#236 to #170 - Kallie

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Not speaking socially, and while there is no permanent physical side effects to puberty blockers I don't believe they are harmless. Part of puberty is learning to identify with your body and your sexual orientation. As a woman, it would have been impossible pre-puberty for me to understand what it is to be a woman and the sexual arousal that comes with that. pre-pubescent humans should not be able to make life changing decisions without fully developing because in and of itself development can drastically alter the physical and mental status of a person.

#234 to #170 - anon id: a549ffd8

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/21/2017) [-]

Gender-Reassignment Surgery
GENDER SUICIDE WITHOUT IMMEDIATE DEATH

Some folks look at their genitals as declare, "I am so screwed up, I should never reproduce." So the get their reproductive organs chopped off and new nerve-numb or continuously painful fake genitals added.

Net result. The have effectively genetically ended their opportunity for ever creating offspring. From a genetic standpoint they are equal to any other organism that killed itself before reproducing. Except they are not dead physically. At the moment. Until brief moments of sanity interrupt their narco-induced delusional brains, then they sink into despair as a self-made Eunich. Never a child will be created from them. They are basically a MEAT GHOST lumbering around in a daze without purpose to their species or themselves.

And it is good.
Because like anyone who would cheerfully murder their infant in their womb... the world is one human less defective as they have correctly spotted a core genetic defect in themselves and self-terminated their poison in the genelines. FemFail monsters glow about murdering their babies and they have permanently ended one more chance of their psychotic brain defects torturing future generations. The Transgender gloats and howls about "my body, my choice" too, but they also have done Eugenics and humanity a great service by self-termination of an obviously mentally defective geneline so no future generations will suffer from such insanity. The only sadness comes from the fact that the Abortion-intoxicated Defective Woman has not likewise killed herself so as to not waste the time of the purposeful living good humans. At least the Transgender self-genocide types kill themselves off, as is only good for the world, in brief moments of non-insanity.

#93 - volcanicdiarrhea

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I'm not an expert on this subject, but I'm pretty sure they undergo extensive psychological testing to make sure something is actually wrong to allow such a change.
And part of the reason they can do it at that age - again, with proper testing - is to allow them to undergo hormone therapy before they hit puberty.
I don't think just any special snowflake can go out and have their nuggets lopped off just because someone on tumblr said its cool.

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