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tonysangiorgio

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tonysangiorgio Avatar Level 223 Content: Mind Blower
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Gender: male
Age: 20
Facebook Profile: http://www.facebook.com/tony.sangiorgio
Youtube Channel: Don't have one
Steam Profile: NOPE
Consoles Owned: Who, gives, a, fuck,
Video Games Played: Not many
X-box Gamertag: Don't have one
PSN: Fuck video games
Interests: Fucking bitches, Getting money
Date Signed Up:1/17/2011
Last Login:7/05/2014
Location:Utah
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Content Thumbs: 23763 total,  26153 ,  2390
Comment Thumbs: 1265 total,  1726 ,  461
Content Level Progress: 76.2% (762/1000)
Level 223 Content: Mind Blower → Level 224 Content: Mind Blower
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Level 212 Comments: Comedic Genius → Level 213 Comments: Comedic Genius
Subscribers:6
Content Views:782336
Times Content Favorited:1991 times
Total Comments Made:567
FJ Points:550
Favorite Tags: why (3) | The Game (2)
I'm a Christian. Get over it. I'm Italian. I love it. And I'm awesome. You know it.

latest user's comments

#172 - **tonysangiorgio rolled a random image posted in comment #57… 03/20/2012 on fap mistake +1
#373 - MFW I see what she is holding in the first frame. 03/20/2012 on Ugly baby +5
#130 - It's actually the love of money that is the root of all evil. … 03/05/2012 on satan would be proud :D +11
#440 - Comment deleted 03/01/2012 on Puppy Dreaming 0
#205 - **tonysangiorgio rolled a random image posted in comment #24…  [+] (1 new reply) 03/01/2012 on Le shower. +2
#207 - draycrosone (03/01/2012) [-]
. . . Yes. . .
#203 - Comment deleted 03/01/2012 on Le shower. 0
#4 - Haha. I was friends with her on facebook. Ha. 02/28/2012 on You just lost it.. -4
#119 - I'm just gonna leave this here. 02/26/2012 on School bully +8
#147 - Comment deleted 02/23/2012 on the original stoner 0
#20 - Comment deleted 02/21/2012 on Excuse me, Sir 0
#27 - Comment deleted 02/21/2012 on Best birthday present ever! 0
#26 - Comment deleted 02/21/2012 on Best birthday present ever! 0
#236 - It actually looks more like a rhino. Don't you think? 02/21/2012 on Behold Fire Dragon +1
#40 - **tonysangiorgio rolled a random image posted in comment #45… 02/20/2012 on Spider Turtle +15
#85 - **tonysangiorgio rolled a random image posted in comment #24… 02/20/2012 on MFW my parents leave the house +1
#358 - EPIC FEEL TIME! 02/20/2012 on IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS +1
#126 - The Bible does have all of the stories you have listed. But we… 02/20/2012 on CHRISTIANS! +1
#263 - "Mormons of the internet." Haha. Such a funnier line… 02/20/2012 on Guise, srsly, guise +4
#113 - The reason why this all happens is because of religious ignora…  [+] (2 new replies) 02/20/2012 on CHRISTIANS! +1
#125 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
I'm sorry, if one person came to me and told me that their cancer was cured by drinking arsenic, I wouldn't believe them. I don't buy the excuse that the vast majority of people are just not using arsenic right. Religion has an overwhelmingly negative impact on our society. Maybe your particular breed of Christianity isn't negative, but you still provide credence by using the same name and revering the same holy book.

The notion that the bible teaches love and acceptance is complete nonsense. This is a book that explicitly condones slavery, claims that god ordered genocide and human sacrifice and rape. This is a book that claims that god will send people for hell simply for not being willing to believe an absurd and unbelievable claim without any evidence whatsoever. Slaveholders in the US used the bible to justify slavery. People in Africa kill their children because they think they're witches. The fundamentalists, by definition, have a far stronger basis in scripture than you do. And if I believed in any sort of creator, I would not dare attach its name to the evils of the bible.

If you want to be loving and accepting, great, but don't claim that it's because of the bible. You have a secular morality, just like I do. You know it's not okay to own slaves. You know the actions of that band of murdering, raping, pillaging Jews described in the bible are not okay. You know it's not okay to stone people or for god to have ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son, but you're clinging to this superstition, and trying your hardest to justify it in the face of the absence of any reason to believe it. I'm morally superior to the god described in the bible and so are you. You are better than that book, and it saddens me to see people buy into such a vile and hateful and nonsensical bronze age text.
User avatar #126 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The Bible does have all of the stories you have listed. But we are not supposed to use the actions of people in the past, to justify our actions. The hateful and violent actions that are referenced in The Bible, are there not so we can justify our actions, but so we can learn from the evil of others. We are not supposed to look at those example and say, "Hey this guy did this, and it's in The Bible, so it must be okay.", They are there so we can look at them and say, "All this evil was in the world at this time. We must learn from the actions of these people, and we'll know what not to do, and how not to resolve conflict.", and yes God was very harsh in the old testament. This is because he created man, and man spat in his face, and slandered his name. How would you feel if you had a son, and you loved that son more than anything in the world, and all he ever did, was claim you weren't his father, and he hated you, and everything he did, was in spite of you? I don't know you, but I can imagine you wouldn't be very happy. But God still gave mankind a chance. Because although he is a harsh God at times, he is a loving, forgiving God. And although we cannot see it, he only wants what's best for you. Sometimes you may think your parents are cruel and evil when they punish you for something, and you don't understand. But later, you may come to realize, they did what was in your best interest. God works in ways we cannot understand, because we are simple minded children, and our minds aren't complex enough to understand why he does what he does, for the good of mankind. But in the end, we will all see and understand.
#110 - I believe because the bible teaches us to love, tolerate, and …  [+] (4 new replies) 02/20/2012 on CHRISTIANS! +1
#111 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
Then why is it that across the board, in everything we can measure, there is a strong negative correlation between religiosity and societal health? Everything from rape, murder, poverty, income disparity, starvation, longevity, infant mortality, teen pregnancy, STD rates. Among industrialized nations, the more secular, the less serious all those problems are. Japan is one of the most secular countries in the world, lowest rape rate. The bible doesn't teach what you claim it teaches unless you look at a very restricted portion of it, but if its teachings really are so good, then why do highly religious countries like the US have these problems so much worse than more secular countries? Women are no longer the property of their fathers or husbands, we don't consider it okay to own slaves or stone people to death because they tried to lead someone to a different god. We didn't get over those things because of religion, we got over them in spite of religion.

Things are better than they ever have been because secularism has dragged religion kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Secular morality is superior because it tells us to really think about our actions and their consequences, instead of things being good or bad by edict. The problem with telling someone that you shouldn't kill people because there's this god you can't prove exists is that if they rightly begin to question what you've said, they will question everything connected to it, including the idea that we shouldn't kill one another. Besides, according to you, if someone goes out and kills someone and then repents to god after they die, nothing happens to them, and their victim would get to live on in an afterlife. If this is the one and only life we're going to get, then we have a reason to solve problems right here and now. Not only is it fallacious to appeal to the consequences of a belief to prove it, but your belief doesn't even win if we do that.
User avatar #113 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The reason why this all happens is because of religious ignorance. People take their beliefs too far, and shove them down other peoples throats, and say that their way is the only way; and naturally people get offended. And this can cause a range of things, from being as simple as a fist fight, to an all out world war. Any one who follows any religion that teaches love and acceptance can not be held responsible for these things. Religion in it's self is not at fault. It is people who take religion too far, and use it as an excuse to breed hate. Which is not what any religion that worships a peaceful higher power is meant for.
#125 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
I'm sorry, if one person came to me and told me that their cancer was cured by drinking arsenic, I wouldn't believe them. I don't buy the excuse that the vast majority of people are just not using arsenic right. Religion has an overwhelmingly negative impact on our society. Maybe your particular breed of Christianity isn't negative, but you still provide credence by using the same name and revering the same holy book.

The notion that the bible teaches love and acceptance is complete nonsense. This is a book that explicitly condones slavery, claims that god ordered genocide and human sacrifice and rape. This is a book that claims that god will send people for hell simply for not being willing to believe an absurd and unbelievable claim without any evidence whatsoever. Slaveholders in the US used the bible to justify slavery. People in Africa kill their children because they think they're witches. The fundamentalists, by definition, have a far stronger basis in scripture than you do. And if I believed in any sort of creator, I would not dare attach its name to the evils of the bible.

If you want to be loving and accepting, great, but don't claim that it's because of the bible. You have a secular morality, just like I do. You know it's not okay to own slaves. You know the actions of that band of murdering, raping, pillaging Jews described in the bible are not okay. You know it's not okay to stone people or for god to have ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son, but you're clinging to this superstition, and trying your hardest to justify it in the face of the absence of any reason to believe it. I'm morally superior to the god described in the bible and so are you. You are better than that book, and it saddens me to see people buy into such a vile and hateful and nonsensical bronze age text.
User avatar #126 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The Bible does have all of the stories you have listed. But we are not supposed to use the actions of people in the past, to justify our actions. The hateful and violent actions that are referenced in The Bible, are there not so we can justify our actions, but so we can learn from the evil of others. We are not supposed to look at those example and say, "Hey this guy did this, and it's in The Bible, so it must be okay.", They are there so we can look at them and say, "All this evil was in the world at this time. We must learn from the actions of these people, and we'll know what not to do, and how not to resolve conflict.", and yes God was very harsh in the old testament. This is because he created man, and man spat in his face, and slandered his name. How would you feel if you had a son, and you loved that son more than anything in the world, and all he ever did, was claim you weren't his father, and he hated you, and everything he did, was in spite of you? I don't know you, but I can imagine you wouldn't be very happy. But God still gave mankind a chance. Because although he is a harsh God at times, he is a loving, forgiving God. And although we cannot see it, he only wants what's best for you. Sometimes you may think your parents are cruel and evil when they punish you for something, and you don't understand. But later, you may come to realize, they did what was in your best interest. God works in ways we cannot understand, because we are simple minded children, and our minds aren't complex enough to understand why he does what he does, for the good of mankind. But in the end, we will all see and understand.
#108 - Because Christians know that we too are human. We don't think …  [+] (6 new replies) 02/20/2012 on CHRISTIANS! +2
#109 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
We don't have sufficient evidence to believe that Jesus even existed, and certainly not enough to believe the supernatural claims. But even supposing it's true, why do I have to accept Jesus or be tortured forever? Why are those the only two options? I'm not okay with this proposition that no matter how small a bad thing you do, you have to accept Jesus to be forgiven or you get tortured forever.

Besides, if you think that I have a chance to change my mind after I die, then why should I believe? According to what you've said, the best thing for me to do is go with the evidence and live my life as if this is the only opportunity to enjoy anything ever. If you're right, then I'll deal with that when it happens. But why should I spend any of the one and only life I know I'm going to get worrying or hoping for an afterlife that I have no reason to think exists?

You still haven't given a reason why you believe. You've just presented part of your proposition and said that's why. The consequences of a proposition don't have a bearing on its truth unless the consequences are a contradiction. What is your justification for believing what you believe?
User avatar #110 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
I believe because the bible teaches us to love, tolerate, and accept others no matter what their views and beliefs are. And if we don't do these things, we will all perish. The world will be consumed by war. People will never stop killing people for their differences. And mankind as we know it, will cease to exist. I believe because without these teachings we will all die. To me, this shows that God exists. Because if he didn't teach us these things, I don't think we would be having this conversation right now.
#111 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
Then why is it that across the board, in everything we can measure, there is a strong negative correlation between religiosity and societal health? Everything from rape, murder, poverty, income disparity, starvation, longevity, infant mortality, teen pregnancy, STD rates. Among industrialized nations, the more secular, the less serious all those problems are. Japan is one of the most secular countries in the world, lowest rape rate. The bible doesn't teach what you claim it teaches unless you look at a very restricted portion of it, but if its teachings really are so good, then why do highly religious countries like the US have these problems so much worse than more secular countries? Women are no longer the property of their fathers or husbands, we don't consider it okay to own slaves or stone people to death because they tried to lead someone to a different god. We didn't get over those things because of religion, we got over them in spite of religion.

Things are better than they ever have been because secularism has dragged religion kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Secular morality is superior because it tells us to really think about our actions and their consequences, instead of things being good or bad by edict. The problem with telling someone that you shouldn't kill people because there's this god you can't prove exists is that if they rightly begin to question what you've said, they will question everything connected to it, including the idea that we shouldn't kill one another. Besides, according to you, if someone goes out and kills someone and then repents to god after they die, nothing happens to them, and their victim would get to live on in an afterlife. If this is the one and only life we're going to get, then we have a reason to solve problems right here and now. Not only is it fallacious to appeal to the consequences of a belief to prove it, but your belief doesn't even win if we do that.
User avatar #113 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The reason why this all happens is because of religious ignorance. People take their beliefs too far, and shove them down other peoples throats, and say that their way is the only way; and naturally people get offended. And this can cause a range of things, from being as simple as a fist fight, to an all out world war. Any one who follows any religion that teaches love and acceptance can not be held responsible for these things. Religion in it's self is not at fault. It is people who take religion too far, and use it as an excuse to breed hate. Which is not what any religion that worships a peaceful higher power is meant for.
#125 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
I'm sorry, if one person came to me and told me that their cancer was cured by drinking arsenic, I wouldn't believe them. I don't buy the excuse that the vast majority of people are just not using arsenic right. Religion has an overwhelmingly negative impact on our society. Maybe your particular breed of Christianity isn't negative, but you still provide credence by using the same name and revering the same holy book.

The notion that the bible teaches love and acceptance is complete nonsense. This is a book that explicitly condones slavery, claims that god ordered genocide and human sacrifice and rape. This is a book that claims that god will send people for hell simply for not being willing to believe an absurd and unbelievable claim without any evidence whatsoever. Slaveholders in the US used the bible to justify slavery. People in Africa kill their children because they think they're witches. The fundamentalists, by definition, have a far stronger basis in scripture than you do. And if I believed in any sort of creator, I would not dare attach its name to the evils of the bible.

If you want to be loving and accepting, great, but don't claim that it's because of the bible. You have a secular morality, just like I do. You know it's not okay to own slaves. You know the actions of that band of murdering, raping, pillaging Jews described in the bible are not okay. You know it's not okay to stone people or for god to have ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son, but you're clinging to this superstition, and trying your hardest to justify it in the face of the absence of any reason to believe it. I'm morally superior to the god described in the bible and so are you. You are better than that book, and it saddens me to see people buy into such a vile and hateful and nonsensical bronze age text.
User avatar #126 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The Bible does have all of the stories you have listed. But we are not supposed to use the actions of people in the past, to justify our actions. The hateful and violent actions that are referenced in The Bible, are there not so we can justify our actions, but so we can learn from the evil of others. We are not supposed to look at those example and say, "Hey this guy did this, and it's in The Bible, so it must be okay.", They are there so we can look at them and say, "All this evil was in the world at this time. We must learn from the actions of these people, and we'll know what not to do, and how not to resolve conflict.", and yes God was very harsh in the old testament. This is because he created man, and man spat in his face, and slandered his name. How would you feel if you had a son, and you loved that son more than anything in the world, and all he ever did, was claim you weren't his father, and he hated you, and everything he did, was in spite of you? I don't know you, but I can imagine you wouldn't be very happy. But God still gave mankind a chance. Because although he is a harsh God at times, he is a loving, forgiving God. And although we cannot see it, he only wants what's best for you. Sometimes you may think your parents are cruel and evil when they punish you for something, and you don't understand. But later, you may come to realize, they did what was in your best interest. God works in ways we cannot understand, because we are simple minded children, and our minds aren't complex enough to understand why he does what he does, for the good of mankind. But in the end, we will all see and understand.
#105 - And like a true Christian I will accept you as a person, and l…  [+] (8 new replies) 02/20/2012 on CHRISTIANS! +1
#107 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
I find this notion that you're supposed to love everyone very odd. I don't love you, I don't even know you. I value love far more than that. I care about you because we're part of one big, if a bit dysfunctional, family. We all depend on one another, and I care about the well being of my fellow humans, even if I don't necessarily like all of them. But why would you devalue the concept of love by applying it to such absurd extremes?
User avatar #108 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
Because Christians know that we too are human. We don't think we're special. We know we're just the same as everyone out there. And when I say I love you it doesn't mean I would I want to be with you for the rest of my life or anything like that. It's a different kind of love. More like an acceptance love. I love you as a human being; and I acknoweledge that we are the same. And we love everyone because we try to live Christ like lives. And Christ loved everybody. That's why he died on the cross for the sin of man. He didn't do it because you asked him to. He did it because he loves you and everyone else. And he gave us free will so we can pursue what makes us happy. He wants us to be happy. Because he loves us. And again it's all up to you whether you will be punished for eternity. Because like I explained before I believe after you die. He gives you that final chance to repent. And he does want you to not only ask his forgiveness; but the forgiveness of whom ever you may have wronged. And he also wants you to be able to forgive yourself. That's why I belive.
#109 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
We don't have sufficient evidence to believe that Jesus even existed, and certainly not enough to believe the supernatural claims. But even supposing it's true, why do I have to accept Jesus or be tortured forever? Why are those the only two options? I'm not okay with this proposition that no matter how small a bad thing you do, you have to accept Jesus to be forgiven or you get tortured forever.

Besides, if you think that I have a chance to change my mind after I die, then why should I believe? According to what you've said, the best thing for me to do is go with the evidence and live my life as if this is the only opportunity to enjoy anything ever. If you're right, then I'll deal with that when it happens. But why should I spend any of the one and only life I know I'm going to get worrying or hoping for an afterlife that I have no reason to think exists?

You still haven't given a reason why you believe. You've just presented part of your proposition and said that's why. The consequences of a proposition don't have a bearing on its truth unless the consequences are a contradiction. What is your justification for believing what you believe?
User avatar #110 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
I believe because the bible teaches us to love, tolerate, and accept others no matter what their views and beliefs are. And if we don't do these things, we will all perish. The world will be consumed by war. People will never stop killing people for their differences. And mankind as we know it, will cease to exist. I believe because without these teachings we will all die. To me, this shows that God exists. Because if he didn't teach us these things, I don't think we would be having this conversation right now.
#111 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
Then why is it that across the board, in everything we can measure, there is a strong negative correlation between religiosity and societal health? Everything from rape, murder, poverty, income disparity, starvation, longevity, infant mortality, teen pregnancy, STD rates. Among industrialized nations, the more secular, the less serious all those problems are. Japan is one of the most secular countries in the world, lowest rape rate. The bible doesn't teach what you claim it teaches unless you look at a very restricted portion of it, but if its teachings really are so good, then why do highly religious countries like the US have these problems so much worse than more secular countries? Women are no longer the property of their fathers or husbands, we don't consider it okay to own slaves or stone people to death because they tried to lead someone to a different god. We didn't get over those things because of religion, we got over them in spite of religion.

Things are better than they ever have been because secularism has dragged religion kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Secular morality is superior because it tells us to really think about our actions and their consequences, instead of things being good or bad by edict. The problem with telling someone that you shouldn't kill people because there's this god you can't prove exists is that if they rightly begin to question what you've said, they will question everything connected to it, including the idea that we shouldn't kill one another. Besides, according to you, if someone goes out and kills someone and then repents to god after they die, nothing happens to them, and their victim would get to live on in an afterlife. If this is the one and only life we're going to get, then we have a reason to solve problems right here and now. Not only is it fallacious to appeal to the consequences of a belief to prove it, but your belief doesn't even win if we do that.
User avatar #113 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The reason why this all happens is because of religious ignorance. People take their beliefs too far, and shove them down other peoples throats, and say that their way is the only way; and naturally people get offended. And this can cause a range of things, from being as simple as a fist fight, to an all out world war. Any one who follows any religion that teaches love and acceptance can not be held responsible for these things. Religion in it's self is not at fault. It is people who take religion too far, and use it as an excuse to breed hate. Which is not what any religion that worships a peaceful higher power is meant for.
#125 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
I'm sorry, if one person came to me and told me that their cancer was cured by drinking arsenic, I wouldn't believe them. I don't buy the excuse that the vast majority of people are just not using arsenic right. Religion has an overwhelmingly negative impact on our society. Maybe your particular breed of Christianity isn't negative, but you still provide credence by using the same name and revering the same holy book.

The notion that the bible teaches love and acceptance is complete nonsense. This is a book that explicitly condones slavery, claims that god ordered genocide and human sacrifice and rape. This is a book that claims that god will send people for hell simply for not being willing to believe an absurd and unbelievable claim without any evidence whatsoever. Slaveholders in the US used the bible to justify slavery. People in Africa kill their children because they think they're witches. The fundamentalists, by definition, have a far stronger basis in scripture than you do. And if I believed in any sort of creator, I would not dare attach its name to the evils of the bible.

If you want to be loving and accepting, great, but don't claim that it's because of the bible. You have a secular morality, just like I do. You know it's not okay to own slaves. You know the actions of that band of murdering, raping, pillaging Jews described in the bible are not okay. You know it's not okay to stone people or for god to have ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son, but you're clinging to this superstition, and trying your hardest to justify it in the face of the absence of any reason to believe it. I'm morally superior to the god described in the bible and so are you. You are better than that book, and it saddens me to see people buy into such a vile and hateful and nonsensical bronze age text.
User avatar #126 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The Bible does have all of the stories you have listed. But we are not supposed to use the actions of people in the past, to justify our actions. The hateful and violent actions that are referenced in The Bible, are there not so we can justify our actions, but so we can learn from the evil of others. We are not supposed to look at those example and say, "Hey this guy did this, and it's in The Bible, so it must be okay.", They are there so we can look at them and say, "All this evil was in the world at this time. We must learn from the actions of these people, and we'll know what not to do, and how not to resolve conflict.", and yes God was very harsh in the old testament. This is because he created man, and man spat in his face, and slandered his name. How would you feel if you had a son, and you loved that son more than anything in the world, and all he ever did, was claim you weren't his father, and he hated you, and everything he did, was in spite of you? I don't know you, but I can imagine you wouldn't be very happy. But God still gave mankind a chance. Because although he is a harsh God at times, he is a loving, forgiving God. And although we cannot see it, he only wants what's best for you. Sometimes you may think your parents are cruel and evil when they punish you for something, and you don't understand. But later, you may come to realize, they did what was in your best interest. God works in ways we cannot understand, because we are simple minded children, and our minds aren't complex enough to understand why he does what he does, for the good of mankind. But in the end, we will all see and understand.
#104 - I'm not here to fight with you. I'm simply here to try to peac…  [+] (1 new reply) 02/20/2012 on CHRISTIANS! +1
#106 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
You seem to be implying that I'm judging you or attacking you, but I assure you that's not my intention. I'm just saying the problems I have with your proposition and I'm trying to better understand it.

The problem I have runs far deeper than god just sending people to hell for not believing. I find the ideas of vicarious redemption and infinite punishment for finite crimes immoral.

What right does the god you believe in have to insert himself into this? If I've wronged someone, then they're the ones I need to make amends to, not god. I don't accept that someone else dying for my sins is okay, nor do I accept the concept of sin as valid. I never asked for Jesus to be tortured and killed for my sake, and I don't think that accomplishes anything. I don't accept that it's okay to torture people forever for any crime, even if they don't repent. God, as described in the bible, and to the best I understand as described by you, created us imperfectly and then wants to punish us for his own problems, unless we take this arbitrary loophole that has nothing to do with what we actually did wrong.

What you're doing is analogous to telling me what the social structures of the bigfoots are. You haven't shown me there's a god but you're telling me how you think he acts. What's the reason for your belief?
#101 - Most Christians do know this. Granted there are still plenty t… 02/19/2012 on CHRISTIANS! 0
#100 - Actually, "faith" is the word people use when they a…  [+] (12 new replies) 02/19/2012 on CHRISTIANS! +2
#103 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
Your definition of faith is so broad as to be useless. There isn't absolute proof of anything, really. By your definition, I would have faith in absolutely everything I believe except for tautological statements like the logical absolutes. By definition, faith is belief not backed up by proof. If you've got proof, then great, share it.

You say that god judges people, and I'm well aware of your theology. But my question for you is: as someone who doesn't believe in god, do you think I'm going to hell? Because if I thought there were a god who would send people to hell for not believing in him, I would do my best to convince people of that. In that case, I wouldn't be in any position other than worshiping out of fear of a complete monster, but my point still stands.

One of the few things I like in the bible is 1 Peter 3:15, and if you don't want to follow it, fine, every Christian on the planet is selective about what parts of their religion they follow. But I would like to hear what your reason is.
User avatar #105 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
And like a true Christian I will accept you as a person, and love you as fellow human being.
#107 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
I find this notion that you're supposed to love everyone very odd. I don't love you, I don't even know you. I value love far more than that. I care about you because we're part of one big, if a bit dysfunctional, family. We all depend on one another, and I care about the well being of my fellow humans, even if I don't necessarily like all of them. But why would you devalue the concept of love by applying it to such absurd extremes?
User avatar #108 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
Because Christians know that we too are human. We don't think we're special. We know we're just the same as everyone out there. And when I say I love you it doesn't mean I would I want to be with you for the rest of my life or anything like that. It's a different kind of love. More like an acceptance love. I love you as a human being; and I acknoweledge that we are the same. And we love everyone because we try to live Christ like lives. And Christ loved everybody. That's why he died on the cross for the sin of man. He didn't do it because you asked him to. He did it because he loves you and everyone else. And he gave us free will so we can pursue what makes us happy. He wants us to be happy. Because he loves us. And again it's all up to you whether you will be punished for eternity. Because like I explained before I believe after you die. He gives you that final chance to repent. And he does want you to not only ask his forgiveness; but the forgiveness of whom ever you may have wronged. And he also wants you to be able to forgive yourself. That's why I belive.
#109 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
We don't have sufficient evidence to believe that Jesus even existed, and certainly not enough to believe the supernatural claims. But even supposing it's true, why do I have to accept Jesus or be tortured forever? Why are those the only two options? I'm not okay with this proposition that no matter how small a bad thing you do, you have to accept Jesus to be forgiven or you get tortured forever.

Besides, if you think that I have a chance to change my mind after I die, then why should I believe? According to what you've said, the best thing for me to do is go with the evidence and live my life as if this is the only opportunity to enjoy anything ever. If you're right, then I'll deal with that when it happens. But why should I spend any of the one and only life I know I'm going to get worrying or hoping for an afterlife that I have no reason to think exists?

You still haven't given a reason why you believe. You've just presented part of your proposition and said that's why. The consequences of a proposition don't have a bearing on its truth unless the consequences are a contradiction. What is your justification for believing what you believe?
User avatar #110 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
I believe because the bible teaches us to love, tolerate, and accept others no matter what their views and beliefs are. And if we don't do these things, we will all perish. The world will be consumed by war. People will never stop killing people for their differences. And mankind as we know it, will cease to exist. I believe because without these teachings we will all die. To me, this shows that God exists. Because if he didn't teach us these things, I don't think we would be having this conversation right now.
#111 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
Then why is it that across the board, in everything we can measure, there is a strong negative correlation between religiosity and societal health? Everything from rape, murder, poverty, income disparity, starvation, longevity, infant mortality, teen pregnancy, STD rates. Among industrialized nations, the more secular, the less serious all those problems are. Japan is one of the most secular countries in the world, lowest rape rate. The bible doesn't teach what you claim it teaches unless you look at a very restricted portion of it, but if its teachings really are so good, then why do highly religious countries like the US have these problems so much worse than more secular countries? Women are no longer the property of their fathers or husbands, we don't consider it okay to own slaves or stone people to death because they tried to lead someone to a different god. We didn't get over those things because of religion, we got over them in spite of religion.

Things are better than they ever have been because secularism has dragged religion kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Secular morality is superior because it tells us to really think about our actions and their consequences, instead of things being good or bad by edict. The problem with telling someone that you shouldn't kill people because there's this god you can't prove exists is that if they rightly begin to question what you've said, they will question everything connected to it, including the idea that we shouldn't kill one another. Besides, according to you, if someone goes out and kills someone and then repents to god after they die, nothing happens to them, and their victim would get to live on in an afterlife. If this is the one and only life we're going to get, then we have a reason to solve problems right here and now. Not only is it fallacious to appeal to the consequences of a belief to prove it, but your belief doesn't even win if we do that.
User avatar #113 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The reason why this all happens is because of religious ignorance. People take their beliefs too far, and shove them down other peoples throats, and say that their way is the only way; and naturally people get offended. And this can cause a range of things, from being as simple as a fist fight, to an all out world war. Any one who follows any religion that teaches love and acceptance can not be held responsible for these things. Religion in it's self is not at fault. It is people who take religion too far, and use it as an excuse to breed hate. Which is not what any religion that worships a peaceful higher power is meant for.
#125 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
I'm sorry, if one person came to me and told me that their cancer was cured by drinking arsenic, I wouldn't believe them. I don't buy the excuse that the vast majority of people are just not using arsenic right. Religion has an overwhelmingly negative impact on our society. Maybe your particular breed of Christianity isn't negative, but you still provide credence by using the same name and revering the same holy book.

The notion that the bible teaches love and acceptance is complete nonsense. This is a book that explicitly condones slavery, claims that god ordered genocide and human sacrifice and rape. This is a book that claims that god will send people for hell simply for not being willing to believe an absurd and unbelievable claim without any evidence whatsoever. Slaveholders in the US used the bible to justify slavery. People in Africa kill their children because they think they're witches. The fundamentalists, by definition, have a far stronger basis in scripture than you do. And if I believed in any sort of creator, I would not dare attach its name to the evils of the bible.

If you want to be loving and accepting, great, but don't claim that it's because of the bible. You have a secular morality, just like I do. You know it's not okay to own slaves. You know the actions of that band of murdering, raping, pillaging Jews described in the bible are not okay. You know it's not okay to stone people or for god to have ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son, but you're clinging to this superstition, and trying your hardest to justify it in the face of the absence of any reason to believe it. I'm morally superior to the god described in the bible and so are you. You are better than that book, and it saddens me to see people buy into such a vile and hateful and nonsensical bronze age text.
User avatar #126 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
The Bible does have all of the stories you have listed. But we are not supposed to use the actions of people in the past, to justify our actions. The hateful and violent actions that are referenced in The Bible, are there not so we can justify our actions, but so we can learn from the evil of others. We are not supposed to look at those example and say, "Hey this guy did this, and it's in The Bible, so it must be okay.", They are there so we can look at them and say, "All this evil was in the world at this time. We must learn from the actions of these people, and we'll know what not to do, and how not to resolve conflict.", and yes God was very harsh in the old testament. This is because he created man, and man spat in his face, and slandered his name. How would you feel if you had a son, and you loved that son more than anything in the world, and all he ever did, was claim you weren't his father, and he hated you, and everything he did, was in spite of you? I don't know you, but I can imagine you wouldn't be very happy. But God still gave mankind a chance. Because although he is a harsh God at times, he is a loving, forgiving God. And although we cannot see it, he only wants what's best for you. Sometimes you may think your parents are cruel and evil when they punish you for something, and you don't understand. But later, you may come to realize, they did what was in your best interest. God works in ways we cannot understand, because we are simple minded children, and our minds aren't complex enough to understand why he does what he does, for the good of mankind. But in the end, we will all see and understand.
User avatar #104 - tonysangiorgio (02/20/2012) [-]
I'm not here to fight with you. I'm simply here to try to peacefully spread my beliefs. I believe when people die, that they are greeted by God- regardless of their beliefs, and God basically gives them their last chance to sincerely repent for all of their sins, and accept Christ as their savior. And are accepted into heaven. And if they still choose not to admit that they lived a sinful life, and refuse to accept him, then they are cast into hell. But these are simply my belifes. And humans- like everything else, are imperfect. No one truly knows for sure what happens after death. I'm not here to judge you for your beliefs; simply to peacefully discuss with you why I believe it. And hopefully you will see my point. Because I do want to try to save people from going to hell. But I'm not saying you're going to hell if you don't; because that's not up to me to decide where you go after you die. Once again, I will not judge you for your views; and I expect you to return the favor. And I will listen to what you have to say; so long as you present to me peacefully, rather than attacking me with it.

#106 - anonymous (02/20/2012) [-]
You seem to be implying that I'm judging you or attacking you, but I assure you that's not my intention. I'm just saying the problems I have with your proposition and I'm trying to better understand it.

The problem I have runs far deeper than god just sending people to hell for not believing. I find the ideas of vicarious redemption and infinite punishment for finite crimes immoral.

What right does the god you believe in have to insert himself into this? If I've wronged someone, then they're the ones I need to make amends to, not god. I don't accept that someone else dying for my sins is okay, nor do I accept the concept of sin as valid. I never asked for Jesus to be tortured and killed for my sake, and I don't think that accomplishes anything. I don't accept that it's okay to torture people forever for any crime, even if they don't repent. God, as described in the bible, and to the best I understand as described by you, created us imperfectly and then wants to punish us for his own problems, unless we take this arbitrary loophole that has nothing to do with what we actually did wrong.

What you're doing is analogous to telling me what the social structures of the bigfoots are. You haven't shown me there's a god but you're telling me how you think he acts. What's the reason for your belief?

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