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sorrowofdaedalus

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Date Signed Up:6/15/2011
Last Login:9/09/2013
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latest user's comments

#137 - Right, but for, as you put it, "full communism" to w…  [+] (4 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Communism 0
User avatar
#141 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Partial communism, which communists just call communism, is basically exactly the same as "full communism". Except that "full communism" is the utopian version where there is complete absence of class and state structure. It's the same as saying that there is no such thing as ultimate totalitarianism, as there cannot possibly be one person in control of everything. There is always a degree of freedom no matter how small.
User avatar
#143 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, alright. Still, I feel the sense of Greed would keep a class system for ever properly being abolished.
User avatar
#147 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
I see your point, and I agree. I'm pretty sure most communists would agree too, but that's not the whole point of communist theory. "Well at least it's better than capitalism".

I do see some charm in market socialism and mutualism though, doing some reading on those subjects atm.
User avatar
#148 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, right. Well, I'm no political mind myself. It's just come up quite frequently recently.
#150 - I understand what you were pointing out, and I was pointing ou… 05/09/2013 on Can it get worse? -1
#126 - Perhaps so, but to eradicate greed entirely would be a hercule…  [+] (6 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Communism 0
User avatar
#131 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Communists do not aim to eradicate greed, rather class relations. Even then I think you'd be hard pressed to find a communist who thinks "full communism" is realistic at all.
User avatar
#137 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Right, but for, as you put it, "full communism" to work, you'd need to eradicate greed. That said, could you explain to me how partial communism might work as opposed to full communism?
User avatar
#141 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Partial communism, which communists just call communism, is basically exactly the same as "full communism". Except that "full communism" is the utopian version where there is complete absence of class and state structure. It's the same as saying that there is no such thing as ultimate totalitarianism, as there cannot possibly be one person in control of everything. There is always a degree of freedom no matter how small.
User avatar
#143 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, alright. Still, I feel the sense of Greed would keep a class system for ever properly being abolished.
User avatar
#147 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
I see your point, and I agree. I'm pretty sure most communists would agree too, but that's not the whole point of communist theory. "Well at least it's better than capitalism".

I do see some charm in market socialism and mutualism though, doing some reading on those subjects atm.
User avatar
#148 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, right. Well, I'm no political mind myself. It's just come up quite frequently recently.
#147 - Then you can't use it as an argument that she's got a duty to … 05/09/2013 on Can it get worse? -1
#121 - I wasn't really arguing against Communism. I support the idea;…  [+] (8 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Communism 0
User avatar
#122 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, but as proven by numerous experiments, altruism is the default state, not greed. Communists argue that it is better (not perfect, mind you) to have system which discourages greed and encourages altruism, than a system in the opposite.
User avatar
#126 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps so, but to eradicate greed entirely would be a herculean task. If there is even a seed of it in the right person it can cause way for problems and corruption. That's where communism reaches a problematic point; the only way to rid greed entirely is complete control and suppression. However, complete control and suppression is no longer altruism, creating more of a problem in the attempt to remove it, not to mention that if successful things go down the route of 1984 and no one is ever capable of free thought.
User avatar
#131 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Communists do not aim to eradicate greed, rather class relations. Even then I think you'd be hard pressed to find a communist who thinks "full communism" is realistic at all.
User avatar
#137 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Right, but for, as you put it, "full communism" to work, you'd need to eradicate greed. That said, could you explain to me how partial communism might work as opposed to full communism?
User avatar
#141 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Partial communism, which communists just call communism, is basically exactly the same as "full communism". Except that "full communism" is the utopian version where there is complete absence of class and state structure. It's the same as saying that there is no such thing as ultimate totalitarianism, as there cannot possibly be one person in control of everything. There is always a degree of freedom no matter how small.
User avatar
#143 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, alright. Still, I feel the sense of Greed would keep a class system for ever properly being abolished.
User avatar
#147 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
I see your point, and I agree. I'm pretty sure most communists would agree too, but that's not the whole point of communist theory. "Well at least it's better than capitalism".

I do see some charm in market socialism and mutualism though, doing some reading on those subjects atm.
User avatar
#148 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, right. Well, I'm no political mind myself. It's just come up quite frequently recently.
#144 - No no, what I mean is that I recognized that your comment was … 05/09/2013 on Can it get worse? -2
#116 - That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying though. …  [+] (10 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Communism 0
User avatar
#119 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, right, I misconstrued that then. But yes I would agree, though it is not an argument against communism.
User avatar
#121 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
I wasn't really arguing against Communism. I support the idea; rather, I think the problem with Communism in practice is the essence of greed in mankind. People constantly need new stimulus, it's a survival tactic, and desiring more and more, even when they have enough to be perfectly happy, is an unfortunate side effect of that.
User avatar
#122 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, but as proven by numerous experiments, altruism is the default state, not greed. Communists argue that it is better (not perfect, mind you) to have system which discourages greed and encourages altruism, than a system in the opposite.
User avatar
#126 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps so, but to eradicate greed entirely would be a herculean task. If there is even a seed of it in the right person it can cause way for problems and corruption. That's where communism reaches a problematic point; the only way to rid greed entirely is complete control and suppression. However, complete control and suppression is no longer altruism, creating more of a problem in the attempt to remove it, not to mention that if successful things go down the route of 1984 and no one is ever capable of free thought.
User avatar
#131 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Communists do not aim to eradicate greed, rather class relations. Even then I think you'd be hard pressed to find a communist who thinks "full communism" is realistic at all.
User avatar
#137 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Right, but for, as you put it, "full communism" to work, you'd need to eradicate greed. That said, could you explain to me how partial communism might work as opposed to full communism?
User avatar
#141 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Partial communism, which communists just call communism, is basically exactly the same as "full communism". Except that "full communism" is the utopian version where there is complete absence of class and state structure. It's the same as saying that there is no such thing as ultimate totalitarianism, as there cannot possibly be one person in control of everything. There is always a degree of freedom no matter how small.
User avatar
#143 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, alright. Still, I feel the sense of Greed would keep a class system for ever properly being abolished.
User avatar
#147 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
I see your point, and I agree. I'm pretty sure most communists would agree too, but that's not the whole point of communist theory. "Well at least it's better than capitalism".

I do see some charm in market socialism and mutualism though, doing some reading on those subjects atm.
User avatar
#148 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, right. Well, I'm no political mind myself. It's just come up quite frequently recently.
#141 - I do, you don't seem to understand the fragility of that argum… 05/09/2013 on Can it get worse? -2
#111 - Isn't that what I said?  [+] (12 new replies) 05/09/2013 on Communism 0
User avatar
#113 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
You said the complete opposite. I'm arguing that meals are inherently communal, which they are, and you're arguing they're completely selfish.

Also, you're wrong in saying all animals only care about themselves. This hasn't been an idea since the 1800's and is very obviously observable to be the contrary.
User avatar
#116 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying though.

I was arguing that in a tribe of people, immediate family shared with immediate family, and even if someone outside of that group was more "deserving" of food, the family communally cared about themselves. Also, when I say tribes I'm talking Neolithic Era. Cave People.

Also, I'm not saying Animals only care about themselves personally, rather, they care about themselves and those they consider part of their family.
User avatar
#119 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, right, I misconstrued that then. But yes I would agree, though it is not an argument against communism.
User avatar
#121 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
I wasn't really arguing against Communism. I support the idea; rather, I think the problem with Communism in practice is the essence of greed in mankind. People constantly need new stimulus, it's a survival tactic, and desiring more and more, even when they have enough to be perfectly happy, is an unfortunate side effect of that.
User avatar
#122 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Aye, but as proven by numerous experiments, altruism is the default state, not greed. Communists argue that it is better (not perfect, mind you) to have system which discourages greed and encourages altruism, than a system in the opposite.
User avatar
#126 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Perhaps so, but to eradicate greed entirely would be a herculean task. If there is even a seed of it in the right person it can cause way for problems and corruption. That's where communism reaches a problematic point; the only way to rid greed entirely is complete control and suppression. However, complete control and suppression is no longer altruism, creating more of a problem in the attempt to remove it, not to mention that if successful things go down the route of 1984 and no one is ever capable of free thought.
User avatar
#131 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Communists do not aim to eradicate greed, rather class relations. Even then I think you'd be hard pressed to find a communist who thinks "full communism" is realistic at all.
User avatar
#137 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Right, but for, as you put it, "full communism" to work, you'd need to eradicate greed. That said, could you explain to me how partial communism might work as opposed to full communism?
User avatar
#141 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
Partial communism, which communists just call communism, is basically exactly the same as "full communism". Except that "full communism" is the utopian version where there is complete absence of class and state structure. It's the same as saying that there is no such thing as ultimate totalitarianism, as there cannot possibly be one person in control of everything. There is always a degree of freedom no matter how small.
User avatar
#143 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, alright. Still, I feel the sense of Greed would keep a class system for ever properly being abolished.
User avatar
#147 - toastedspikes (05/09/2013) [-]
I see your point, and I agree. I'm pretty sure most communists would agree too, but that's not the whole point of communist theory. "Well at least it's better than capitalism".

I do see some charm in market socialism and mutualism though, doing some reading on those subjects atm.
User avatar
#148 - sorrowofdaedalus (05/09/2013) [-]
Ah, right. Well, I'm no political mind myself. It's just come up quite frequently recently.
#138 - Role model for who? Is she famous? Because I don't recognize h… 05/09/2013 on Can it get worse? -3