Rank #6861 on CommentsLevel 264 Comments: Pure Win
OfflineSend mail to sirgawain Block sirgawain Invite sirgawain to be your friend flag avatar
|Last status update:|| |
|Date Signed Up:||2/22/2011|
|FunnyJunk Career Stats|
|Highest Content Rank:||#7476|
|Highest Comment Rank:||#1147|
|Content Thumbs:||72 total, 164 , 92|
|Comment Thumbs:||6773 total, 8411 , 1638|
|Content Level Progress:|| 80% (4/5) |
Level 2 Content: New Here → Level 3 Content: New Here
|Comment Level Progress:|| 1% (1/100) |
Level 264 Comments: Pure Win → Level 265 Comments: Pure Win
|Times Content Favorited:||3 times|
|Total Comments Made:||3540|
|Favorite Tags:||3rd edition (2) | Dice (2) | DnD (2) | gopher (2) | modgate (2) | Nerds (2) | Steam Workshop (2)|
- Views: 2876No Explanation Required
27 3 Total: +24
- Views: 2050Escapism
18 0 Total: +18
- Views: 851Didn't Get Dubs?
19 2 Total: +17
- Views: 1573Website Copying FJ?
23 8 Total: +15
- Views: 788I FOUND JESUS
8 1 Total: +7
- Views: 407therealism
0 9 Total: -9
- Views: 1206Bigger Version of This GIF?
5 6 Total: -1
latest user's comments
|#39 - ******* BEST game. [+] (1 new reply)||10/03/2015 on Updoot or no spoopy October...||+6|
|#38 - Picture||10/03/2015 on Updoot or no spoopy October...||+4|
|#3 - This was JUST on front page an HOUR ago. [+] (2 new replies)||10/03/2015 on fukboi||+1|
|#540 - Here you go, Boss.||10/03/2015 on Bless America||0|
|#31 - Picture||10/03/2015 on Updoot or no spoopy October...||+7|
|#104 - Despite the strange Gameplay changes, 2 was fantastic.||10/03/2015 on The problem with open world...||0|
|#16 - Also what about D-Horse? [+] (3 new replies)||09/30/2015 on Metal gear salad||0|
|#15 - Ocelot is great. Miller all like "NOOOO YOU CAN'T DO … [+] (34 new replies)||09/30/2015 on Metal gear salad||+15|
#37 - angelious (09/30/2015) [-]
ocelot "Used" to be againts torture before the time of diamond dogs.
and he is developing his sadism in this game. he handles all of the torturing in the motherbase,all of the interrogations and so on.
but you must remember, he is more driven towards his cause of fighting cipher rather than his personal pleasures. he is after all: big boss of different type of solo infiltrations.
also miller is the one that fascinates me the most..i mean i understand his personality change..but i somewhat miss the old miller...
did you know bb can be made to have sex with miller in mgspw?
#40 - comradewinter (09/30/2015) [-]
That is plain and simply wrong.
Ocelot earned his nickname "Shalashaska" (Russian slang for prison) for being a terrible man. He says in 1964: "Torture is the ultimate form of expression", and was basically a dickwad up until The Phantom Pain.
The torturing in MGS:V is handled by Miller. In the interrogation scenes, Ocelot mostly just stays back and lets Miller go loose. He's also the one to calm him if he goes too far.
Here's some chronologically listed info if you need to freshen your memory.
So no, he was very much in favor of torture prior to TPP. After that he was all about being rational and calm.
#42 - angelious (09/30/2015) [-]
that was when he started developing love for torture.
before that he called volgin disgusting and a monster for torturing people.
shalashaska is a nickname he gains just before the game starts, when bb was in coma.
and no, ocelot tortured quiet, tortured huey and eli. aka all the major torture scenes were done by ocelot. miller was present during the tortures, but he didnt handle the torturing. he merely asked the questions.
also i suggest you read up the wikia yourself. and maybe play the game..and listen to the tapes...
#43 - comradewinter (09/30/2015) [-]
Quiet torturing scene done by random DD member.
Huey torture scene done by Miller.
No torturing done to Eli. Not even tapes suggesting it. There is a scene where he gives him a decent rousing due to Eli's aggressiveness, but nothing outside of that.
Yes, he gains his nickname by the Mujahideen between Ground Zeroes and TPP, hence why the turnover doesn't make sense. If he'd started resenting torture in the 70's it'd make sense, but he was known for being a major sadist right before he joined Diamond Dogs.
Volgin was the inspiration for his passion for torture. He initially found it disgusting, but later started finding it amusing.
#97 - akkere (10/01/2015) [-]
I like how you're forgetting three things;
1. Ocelot has alone time with Huey when Miller gathers with Snake to talk about the situation.
2. Huey is scared shitless of Ocelot. They have conversations and during one of them Miller gets his good ol' super suspicions, and says something along the lines of "Maybe we need to bring Ocelot into the conversation" and Huey completely flips out. Why would he do that if Miller was the sole interrogator?
3. Metallic Archea interrogation.
It's not just the fact he reveals how he came up with the entire idea of the interrogation in a casette tape, but what he does after - leaves the metallic archea pricked into Huey in such a way that the latter could fuck up his legs if he lost his balance (and Huey isn't someone of good coordination exactly). Here's this genius potential for R&D, and Ocelot is leaving him to have a potentially slow and agonizing death via having his bones rust from the inside out.
The thing you need to understand is a lot of Metal Gear characters have depth to them, and Ocelot is easily the perfect example of that. He shows a cocky behavior for the most part, but deep down he's a not just someone of rational mind - he's an absolute genius grand-schemer. In fact, his nonchalance during his tenure in MSF shows how much respect he has for The Big Boss ( or so he's self-hypnotized to believe ) and the serious necessity of the situation. They don't have time to mess around and enjoy sadistic fun; they've got to deal with Cipher, a group so bad that the whole reason he's even there is because Zero requested in the first place. He wants to demonstrate to him the changes he's developed since they last met face to face during Operation Snake Eater, because he was essentially his mentor for every exchange they had. Even so, he's not afraid to show a sadistic side to the ones who don't really need to be in one piece, like Huey.
#136 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
imo ocelot really does love bb. he sees him as an idol/mentor figure/ big brother figure.
eva comments about how ocelot ate all his food because "he wanted to eat what you(snake) eats"
ocelot took up revolvers as his main weapons because bb told him it would fit his style better than automatic pistols,he joined and betrayed cipher because of big boss and finally; ocelot brainwashed himself to be liquid, just so that the world big boss envisioned could become reality
#132 - comradewinter (10/01/2015) [-]
That doesn't contradict anything. Ocelot is frightening, but he doesn't use torture. That's the key. As far as "torture" is done to Huey in your "source", he just threatens him. Psychological torture if you will, but injecting that needle into him would kill him. No point in that, thus it was just a ruse, and no physical damage done. Scaring someone doesn't qualify for torture, at least not the definition that he was accustomed to prior to TPP.
#137 - akkere (10/01/2015) [-]
If you think psychological torture means no physical harm is done, stop.
Psychological-anything on an extreme degree will often require physical stimulus - that's textbook. Psychological application requires sensory stimulus; you don't get Ocelot's results with just words alone.
#154 - akkere (10/01/2015) [-]
If Ocelot is purely questioning and only Miller was behind the physical torture, why is Huey scared of Ocelot exclusively without even being brought up by name?
They probably wouldn't give the Boss tapes of the torture process and rather the in-between Q&As, as part of their own way of handling the torture. Especially when behind-the-scenes-wise, the Ground Zeroes tapes which consisted primarily of Paz being tortured moreso than actual content had bothered quite a few people if I remember correctly.
#55 - angelious (09/30/2015) [-]
quiet torture was lead by ocelot. you think he was having tea in that room?
and huey was tortured several times and first ten seconds, you see ocelot is the one torturing huey,. then miller joins in
"if he wants to be treated like a soldier, then i will treat him like a soldier" said by ocelot during the eli tapes. seriously. play the game.
and you are flanderizing his personality as well
#60 - comradewinter (09/30/2015) [-]
Really? Because if you watch the video, you can see him just standing still. Miller does the interrogation. Then he saves her by pouring water on her.
As for Huey, the tapes show Miller and Ocelot asking him questions, not torturing. In the scene, he splashes him with a water bucket, then uses truth serum on him to make him speak the truth without hurting him. Miller, on the other hand, wants to pry it out of him by nearly breaking his legs.
Taking something out of proportions doesn't make you right. In fact, latching onto a sentence that means nothing does the exact opposite. Eli was difficult to cope with, so hard-handing him was necessary to make him get off his high horse. Ocelot doesn't even get to interrogate him, Miller was in charge of the children.
Maybe you should play the game, because there is virtually no info on him torturing anyone. While he may have approved of it, seeing as he doesn't step in before things go overboard, Miller is the one taking charge. If you're gonna deny it, give some evidence instead of pure and clear categorical bullshit.
#133 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
in all of those the torture is already going on before miller steps in.
and really? that moment with metallic archea ocelot nearly injects into huey wasnt torture??? or the moment he is torturing him??
also are you just bummed out that mgs5 didnt include full 1 hour long torture scenes?
and IF yet again, you would play the game, you would notice that miller was in charge of the kids, with ocelots constantly telling miller that he is doing it wrong, and he should let him take care of it. in the end miller gives up and ocelot tells him he is going to treat eli as a "soldier" which leads to eli escaping after the suggested torture.
you should really play the game because you are obviously just arguing out of your arse kid.
#134 - comradewinter (10/01/2015) [-]
Questioning and interrogating =/= torture.
As for the Metallic Archea, Ocelot never intended to inject the serum because it would kill him. Threatening someone =/= torture.
No, I'm just bummed he decided to go from beating his prisoners senseless to using truth serum and careful questioning.
If you play the game, the escaped children tapes show Ocelot bitching about it, yes. And if you watch all those tapes, you'll see he doesn't get to interrogate Eli at all. The kids escape, and Ocelot gets pissed off on Miller because he didn't act fast enough.
I'm presenting evidence and facts, you're presenting statements which I have countered time and time again. If you want to present anything resembling evidence, point out the exact tapes or scenes, and relevant ones this time. So far you've yet to present any compelling evidence.
#135 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
psychological torture is a form of torture....fuck how can you be this dense?
and torture isnt "beating someone senseless" if you think thats what torture is, then i suggest you go out for a while...
if you play the game and watch the tapes you will hear miller admit he doesnt have it under control and then allows ocelot to take the control, next step later, eli is crying and while ocelot is circling around him in the torture room.
you arent presenting evidence nor facts, you are ignoring evidence and facts because you dont want to admit you are wrong.
#138 - comradewinter (10/01/2015) [-]
Psychological torturing involves fucking with people's minds, not threatening them. Such as how the Nazis played the same sequence of music constantly in order to annoy the living shit out of prisoners.
Which tape, angelious? Because right now you're just tossing words without merit. I've listened to all the tapes involved, even did it an extra time just in case I was wrong. I wasn't, from the looks of it, seeing as there is no tape that suggests what you just said.
What evidence have I ignored so far? "Listen to every single fucking tape, and you'll find one instance?" "Ocelot leads the tortuing, because he was in the room?" Rewatch the scenes, relisten to the tapes. I've done my research, you've just made claims.
#140 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
the kids tapes? the one where they talk about eli and the kids and their rebellion?
so you think that because ocelot, the guy in charge of the intel team,the guy whom every one of the tortured people fear. is not in charge of the torture DESPITE shown that he clearly is
because miller is in the room/ walks into the room when the cutscenes start?
just because you cant understand something doesnt make you wrong or right. it just makes you stupid.
#141 - comradewinter (10/01/2015) [-]
There are all your children's tapes. Not a single one of them states what you've just said. Broken down they just tell you the following:
1: Miller: The kids escaped
2: Miller: Eli was behind it. Ocelot: I should handle the interrogation, not you.
3. Miller: Eli gave his explanation. Ocelot: You're too attached to the kids.
4. Ocelot: We found weapons in their quarters. Miller: Eli said they'd rise up against us. Ocelot: Put him in isolation.
5/1: Miller: The kids ran away to their home village. Ocelot: Just put Eli in isolation. Miller: *Talking about his past as an unwanted child*.
5/2: Ocelot: Eli wants to speak to the Big Boss. If they rise up, we'd have no choice but to meet them full force.
6: Ocelot: Eli somehow found out all the kids came back, even in isolation. Must've been psychokinesis.
What shows him clearly in charge of it? He leads interrogations, that doesn't equate to torture. In the scenes shown, Miller does most of the irrational questioning and all the physical violence. Ocelot sticks to truth serum and careful questioning. And after the torture sequences are over, he's the one to pour water over Quiet, and making sure that Huey is okay.
Miller walks in with Big Boss during the Quiet torture scene, but Ocelot requests their presence prior to it. The DD member gives her one shock, then Miller walks in and takes charge.
In the Huey scenes, Miller is already there in both, sitting behind a desk. After Ocelot is done talking, Miller goes in physical.
I understand a lot of things, you're the one denying evidence by presenting baseless "evidence" that doesn't even exist.
#144 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
careful questioning and truth serum is all that you see,.. incase you haventh noticed; the questionings were going on for a while before snake or miller enter, except for the first one where miller is sitting behind a table(aka not taking part in anything before snake enters) and all of the torture scenes had been already going on for a while before the cutscene starts. all it takes is a little bit of attention to THE EXTREMELY OBVIOUS DETAILS TO NOTICE THIS.
"Revolver "Shalashaska" Ocelot (interrogator/weapons trainer; leader of the Intel Unit)" ocelots full list of duties on motherbase.
and no..you dont seem to understand that there has been things happening BEFORE THE CUTSCENES START. nor can you understand to take context from the dialogue of the game.
heck im surprised you are somehow able to interpret what im saying considering how shitty your attention to details is!
#145 - comradewinter (10/01/2015) [-]
So you don't have any evidence, you're just filling in the blanks with your own imagination. Figures.
Well, if you're not interested in having a civil conversation you can believe what you want. Whatever your view of the situation is doesn't mean anything to how things really are. #106 makes a decent point out of it, you on the other hand make up your own opinion and don't care for what is known. Enjoy your own view on this, by all means. I'm simply more interested in evidence rather than what you see as truth as it is "implied."
#146 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
i have presented shitload of evidence.
where the hell did this strawman even come from? did you just run out of shit to fling so you so you just decided to go full retard???
and really now? several times i explained why miller was abroad, i brought up ocelots job describtion on motherbase, pointed out dialogues in the game that clearly nod towards ocelot being the chief interogator/torturer in motherbase.
your whole "evidence" as you like to call it. is completely ignore obvious evidence in the scenes in favor of simplifying it to a point it no longer even matches the actual scene. and everytime i, or any of the other people in here have brought out the evidence or refuted your retardation. you have just ignored it and continued flinging the same shitty arguments around.
#149 - comradewinter (10/01/2015) [-]
Please state a single piece of evidence you have presented.
I'm not the one using my imagination as evidence.
I never claimed Ocelot was not in charge of interrogation. His methods are sound and extremely useful, hence why he holds that position. What I did say, was that torture was not part of his methods. You do realize it's possible to get answers out of people without resorting to violence?
You, and everyone else? You mean your one guy? The two others stated that he's not sadistic, thus not challenging my claims. My evidence is based upon proof posted, thereof videos of the scenes as well as the tapes. Your evidence is based upon implication and tapes that you refuse to refer to. The children's escape tapes? I went through them. They didn't state what you said they did. Whatever evidence you have presented, whether it's the torture scenes or the tapes, I decomposed them and found nothing alike to what you claim, yet you still claim it's there. In the end you simply refer to implication, of which I cannot contradict as it's a subjectively interpreted. Thus they don't hold up as evidence as they aren't subject to scrutiny.
I'd still like to see your point of view, but you're just being irrational and not presenting objective proof. Makes it pretty difficult when you can't be civil about it.
#152 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
those happen after or mid torture, also huey CLEARLY shows he is afraid of ocelot, which is not something you would have towards a person you just talk about.
ocelot torturing eli is implied heavily. thats the only one that is up for grasp as not true.
"sorry for using evidence" no..you arent using evidence, you show a scene, people explain it to you, then you ignore them and tell them they are wrong, and then you show the same scene again...rince and repeat.
repeating what you said earlier rather than actually arguing about anything...
outside of:being referred as the chief interrogator of mother base,handling the torturing of huey,leading the torturing of quiet, and the interrogation of eli? sure. they never ever imply him being the chief interrogator outside of the times they clearly state this is his job...seriously do you have the processing power of a 12 month old baby? or are you just playing stupid??
outside of all the evidence pointed above? that you disregard as "imagination" because of some unholy retardation that is going on between your ears that maybe in some vague way is reminiscent of a thought process?
you are the guy who first got butthurt about this in the beginning :/ i just simply stop trying to be polite when i start debating useless things with idiots that cannot fathom themselves being wrong.
#150 - angelious (10/01/2015) [-]
outside of explaining ocelots and millers dynamics during the torture scenes? outside of reminding you about hueys and millers conversation? and millers and ocelots conversation about eli? or how about that list of duties that ocelot has in motherbase that included chief interrogator?
and no. you arent using your imagination. that would actually take some effort from you, what you are doing is ignoring evidence and anything that contradicts whatever you think should be right..
also your entire argument is just "MY IS THE PROOF. YOU IS NOT THE OF PROOF"
without actually giving any proof and just repeating the same fucking bullshits that have been defloated several times already.
#151 - comradewinter (10/01/2015) [-]
None of these are evidence. They have multiple conversations, out of one is how Miller treated the kids like kids, Ocelot having a deeper understanding of what a child soldier means. This does not stand as evidence that Ocelot used torture.
You talk of Huey, yet you don't refer to any viable data. If you're referring to the Huey tapes, Ocelot simply talks to him. You can see how he makes Emmerich twist his words rather than using violence.
Again, the conversations between Kaz and Ocelot don't refer to torture. Ocelot gives him a solid thrashing about how Miller doesn't act on the kids. How he didn't isolate Eli, how he tried treating the kids like normal kids. Ocelot knows that kids who don't behave and are used to violence as a means of punishment don't respond well to words. Nowhere is it stated either tortured Eli, Ocelot simply found it more useful to treat him befitting of an enemy rather than an ally. For someone who doesn't actively use torture, that means torture still is out of the question.
Again, the duties being chief interrogator? Reading my last comment, you have your contradiction: Interrogation =/= torture. Ocelot produced results with non-violent means, and has a history of success. In his history, he used violence. In TPP, he uses words. Being Chief Interrogator doesn't make you responsible for every little thing that happens. Like I said, he probably approves of much that Miller does, but he doesn't take part in it.
Sorry for using evidence rather than imagination. One thing holds up in a serious conversation, the other doesn't. If your imagination and implication were sound rhetorical arguments, I'm sure a court of law would be much more entertaining. Unfortunately, evidence is alpha and omega in a discussion. I'm not the one ignoring evidence, I simply stay by what is objectively and undeniably proven, rather than seeing Miller and Big Boss go into the interrogation room and say: "gee, I guess Ocelot must've been in there for like, two hours".
Am I lying? I post evidence that you can read up on. You post assumptions based on implication, evidence that doesn't back up your statements, and insults. I've already proven you wrong about Ocelot's past, the Children Tapes and the torture scenes. Now you've just devolved into using imagination as a just cause. There is a very specific reason why I don't consider your statements evidence, and that is simply because the "evidence", whenever presented, doesn't even support your claims.
When the argument of the discussion is whether or not he uses torture, the proof of my side is simply that he's not seen or heard using torture, despite that being part of his history. The few torture scenes we see, he plays the good cop. That's as far as the evidence can go, as it is very much possible he tortures people left right and center without there being any proof of it. The key here, is that there is no evidence to back that up. Odd as it may be, given his history as a sadist.
For your sake, you would need irrefutable evidence that he commits to torture, something you have yet to do without involving your livid imagination.
But, by all means. Keep insulting. Keep red-thumbing. I'm sure this conversation means a lot more to you than it does to me. If all you're looking for is some sort of useless recognition, go ahead and grab it. Talking to a wall isn't what I had in mind for my afternoon, so consider yourself the undisputed winner of this argument. You're simply the MGS-expert and I apologize for wasting your time. Have a good day, and good luck insulting more strangers on the internet.
#76 - rukifellth (09/30/2015) [-]
Of course he saved her by pouring water on her. It's torture for information, killing the person you're torturing means you failed and he was only doing it because he was ordered to. He goes out of his way to point out she's not talking, she never has, torture isn't going to change that. He's great at determining people's personalities and how far he needs to go to get the information he wants, Quiet was a lost cause and proved herself to be an ally.
As for Huey, again, a lost cause. He was immune to the serum and sees that he's lying so much that he's even started to fool himself. You can't break someone like that. They've already broken their self.
It doesn't show him as some mindless, crazed torturer, no, but that just means he knows what he's doing and knows how to do it right. Kaz, on the other hand, has lost it, and really shouldn't be allowed near the tortures. If you've actually finished the entire game, you'll know why he has such a huge flip in personality after the final credits. He's not happy...and he's definitely not a friend of Ocelot.
#78 - comradewinter (09/30/2015) [-]
But you have just gone on to state the exact same thing I said, apart from his previous personality.
Ocelot is smart, rational and calm. He knows how to press info out of people without resorting to barbaric methods. Something he clearly lacked right before he joined Diamond Dogs. He is the voice of reason, albeit working with difficult people. I've never claimed he was about sunshine and daffodils, but considered how he used to be a sadist and made a 180-turn, that's what irks me.
#106 - bewailedbadger (10/01/2015) [-]
What you don't seem to understand is that Ocelot's true personality is that of, in the most literal sense of the words, a roleplayer. He plays whatever role he needs to. In MGS3, he was ADAM, but in order to do his job right, he has to play the role of a GRU Major. Prior to DD, I'm not entirely sure, but he had no need to appear calm and rational, in fact, brutality and barbarism was probably the best way to get the result he needed: Fear.
In MGSV, he's needed to be the sensible, rational one. That's why he's like that. Because noone else was. MGS1 he was needed by Liquid to be their torturer, and so that's what he does. To fit that role he had to become sadistic about it again (Or he wanted to, and nothing was stopping him).
MGS2 he pretended to be possessed by Liquid so that he could fool the Patriots. MGS4 he continued that ruse, going so far as to self hypnotize himself so that he could continue to fool the Patriots.
All Ocelot has ever done has been take on the roles he needs to, in order to achieve his goals.
|#13 - I remember the part where that guy burst into tears when his p… [+] (1 new reply)||09/30/2015 on I'd buy 1||+15|
|#15 - Apparently there is a way to avoid mission 45 involving maxing… [+] (10 new replies)||09/28/2015 on Quiet is with me ;)||+1|
#21 - anon (09/28/2015) [-]
iirc that's a bug that was already fixed
#45 - onlyheretoparty (09/29/2015) [-]
No you cant, the bug he is talking about is mission 29 and mission 42 bug where if you play with quiet your save become corrupted, to beat the game you have to lose quiet, so i recommend you do all the missions that are hard as fuck to get s rank without quiet first and then get rid of her.
sirgawain has disabled anonymous comments.