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#2 - To be fair the government isn't raising tuition, they're just …  [+] (36 replies) 09/23/2016 on Fuck you(th) +355
#109 - schwantz (09/23/2016) [-]
How about we just short the Student loans and make billions?
#82 - velcromancer (09/23/2016) [-]
To be specific, the government is offering student loans of any size that you cannot default on (fucking evil debt-slavery honestly). Universities at this point jack up their tuition, since they can. Look up the definition of "moral hazard".
(Same reason why the housing market collapsed. Education is following the same pattern.)

One potential solution is to just remove the "no default" aspect of the loans. To get a loan you will have to convince people granting the loan that you will be able to pay it off. You do this by getting good grades, picking a reasonable major like engineering instead of art history, and not having a shitty credit score.

Now not everyone will want to get a college education in that situation, but that is fine. There are trade schools and other options out there. The whole concept that university is required to be successful is sort of a scam to begin with. At this point it looks like there is something wrong with you if you DON'T have a degree, because getting a degree is pretty easy and loans are ensured. When you dismantle this, people will be more reasonable about education again. The education in general might shift due to the internet. Information is available, but accreditation is still important. So instead of wasting 4 years and tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars, you can pay some small fee to take tests to prove you know what you're talking about.
#84 - anon (09/23/2016) [-]
I'm with you up until the bit about art history, your major shouldn't affect your ability to get an education. I don't see what's wrong with studying art or the humanities, and it's this notion that some subjects are more important than others and that some are worthless that creates this dumb hierarchy of subjects in our high schools.

How many high school students don't get to realize their talents in the arts or humanities because their school deems the sciences far more important? Why should a young person have to face these restrictions in the world of higher education? The world needs historians, artists, writers, social scientists, all of that, as much as it needs biologists, physicists and engineers.
#87 - velcromancer (09/23/2016) [-]
In the current economy, it is not reasonable for massive numbers of people to have art history degrees, theater degrees, etc. How many actual jobs are out there demanding these degrees. You can have the market naturally decide these things, but right now things are too distorted by easily accessed loans. Kids are basically agreeing to debt slavery without understanding how hard it is to pay off $50k+. They aren't old enough or smart enough to factor in how the economy will change, that jobs might be harder to find when they graduate, and that they will STILL have to pay off the loans anyway no matter how shitty things turn out.

You can still have art history classes and theater classes or even specialized schools for these things where you can lower costs through donations or some other means. That's all fine, but letting a kid take out 50k to get a humanities major when they don't really have a plan for how to pay that off is really irresponsible on the part of the lender. The only reason why they do it is that "no default" aspect of the loan, which is just evil.
#88 - velcromancer (09/23/2016) [-]
30 years ago, you could afford to pay for a semester of tuition with a summer job. Now the idea of that is just impossible. Why is tuition so high? Because it is a collaboration between the government, lenders, and universities. Before the "easy loans" schools were cheap enough to be paid for by flipping burgers for 2-3 months a year.
#89 - velcromancer (09/23/2016) [-]
I took philosophy classes at a philosophy school in NYC. How much did that cost me? $10 total for 10 lectures. They make most of their money through donations. Why can't other humanities work in a similar way? Do you really need to shell out $50,000 for that? What about a lecture really costs that much?

Now if a school is a research school with expensive tools for subjects like biochemistry, physics, etc. I understand the tuition being higher. You would mainly go to these schools if you wanted to be a researcher in these topics and make use of expensive research equipment and direct interaction with leading researchers.

Right now, a lot of the money a university spends goes towards mostly useless administration, improving the image of the school in terms of dorms, activity centers, sports, etc. This is all wasted.
#92 - velcromancer (09/23/2016) [-]
Here is the philosophy school:

I found a theater school that provides very affordable classes.For underprivileged people, taking courses here is free.
#50 - infinitereaper (09/23/2016) [-]
It's their fault. Their solution is to increase aid, but that just encourages Universities to raise their rates. . Endless cycle. Whole thing is a bloody fucking mess.
#32 - lostabyss (09/23/2016) [-]
no, but the government subsidizes tuition, so colleges raise tuition costs because the government is footing the bill. and this just keeps going. more subsidies means higher tuition. as less and less people look to college with their own money, the cost will only increase
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#31 - catburglarpenis (09/23/2016) [-]
Government didn't say any of these things I know he's a friend of mine

His parents were weird af naming him that
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#42 - blokrokker (09/23/2016) [-]
I knew a guy named Governor and another named Chancellor. I tried to hold an election. It didn't pan out.
#29 - firesky (09/23/2016) [-]
Isn't that exactly what people in the US want?

The government not interfering?
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#100 - willgum (09/23/2016) [-]
nah we want the government to interfere as needed and change only what is absolutely necessary. the problem is when the government interferes and does too much, the most famous example of this being the patriot act and vise versa. when the government interferes when it doesn't need to, the example being when those gay guys wanted to get a wedding cake from the homophobic cake man.
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#95 - AnomynousUser (09/23/2016) [-]
Well, the government is interfering. They're giving loans out to just about anyone who wants to go to college, and they have been for decades. That kind of artificial boost of supply (of students) plays a major role in the education bubble that's expanding.
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#122 - iliekcereal (09/23/2016) [-]
I scored a 2090 on the SAT, a 31 on the ACT, and passed 8 AP (college level) courses while still in high school (My school had a shitty AP program, most anyone from my highschool passed previously or since was 5, and even they had a lower average score than I did. )

All this would indicate that nationwide, I was in the top 1 or 2 percent of my graduating class, yet when it became time to apply for college, every school I applied to (not even Ivy League schools) refused to give me an offer that didn't require me to use federal assistance.

Despite being in the top 1 or 2 percent of all students who graduated high school the same year as me, I literally would not have been able to go to college without federal assistance.
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#124 - AnomynousUser (09/23/2016) [-]
Your problem is that you weren't a trisexual minority woman. Schools love dat diversity.
#68 - sensitive (09/23/2016) [-]
nope. we want fair market competition.
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#44 - pingun (09/23/2016) [-]
Thats what people want untill they see that its not going the way they want
#33 - anon (09/23/2016) [-]
yes and no? i know very little about economics and the politics behind it but people want a free market so that the government cant mandate how much/how little a company can make. the problem with that is private institutions are run like a business, and raise the tuition. they can afford nice programs and supplies with these things, and bring other costs down, but its still taking a toll on the pockets of students/parents. State institutions receive funding from the government, and charge students tuition based on what they are projected to need on top of the state funding. its also a problem of a necessity at this point. its difficult to find a well paying job without a diploma from any institution. therefore, colleges know they can charge exuberant amounts of money so that people can go to school, find a decent career, and pay their loans off. the problem is that this is exactly what the banks of America did in 2008, where they loaned out too much money to people who wanted houses they couldnt afford. so on top of personal anxiety of rising costs and a wish for state regulated finances of college, its also eerily similar to what happened with the housing collapse. fortunately, there is way more payback from college loans than housing loans, so theres always that. again im not sure exactly how this all works, but this is what ive gathered from information ive read/heard.
#28 - masterreposter (09/23/2016) [-]
affirmitive actions and the diversity thing they do dont help either
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#107 - reloadedhamster (09/23/2016) [-]
#3 - anon (09/23/2016) [-]
Its actually an unforeseen side-effect of student loans (much of which the government provides). As buying power became available to the consumers, the price consumers were willing and able to pay rose. Given the finite number of students colleges can accommodate, the price of college was inadvertently inflated.
#17 - anon (09/23/2016) [-]
Banks: We can do whatever we want!
Public: ok
Private business: We can do whatever we want!
Public: ok
Gov: We try to help people, so we did this thing where...

Public doesn't want to blame rich because they want to join them, and saying anything bad about them would close the door to that. So they need a scapegoat. The gov, that is democratic and has to listen to them.
#26 - bazda (09/23/2016) [-]
"We try to help people" says the government.

That may be the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen on FJ, you poor, deluded, naive, fool.
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#22 - ssjkirby (09/23/2016) [-]
Banks and private businesses are trying to make a profit. That's how capitalism works.

The government is supposed to regulate them, not provide them with a new source of income through cheap loans
#20 - anon (09/23/2016) [-]
man what's it like to be completely retarded it seems hard but you got a good handle on it
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#4 - bartemaeus (09/23/2016) [-]
Sorry, forgot to log in. But if anyone has economics questions, hit me up. I love that shit.
#9 - afireinsidebrad (09/23/2016) [-]
its kinda like vintage cars, people will be willing to pay exorbitant prices for old cars, which will drive up the price on all of them

the buyers control the market price
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#6 - fargfive (09/23/2016) [-]
FUCKING THIS. Tuition is so high because a large portion of students aren't paying the full amount, at least not personally. Tuition hikes are a direct result of universities knowing that the government is going to be footing the bill. Well, that and universities spending money on really dumb shit that in no way improves the education they offer.

The solution to high tuition isn't more government funding, but less. Higher education has become a business and they respond to supply and demand. If people (speaking to my fellow americans especially) can get it into their heads that getting tens of thousands of dollars in debt for schooling that in a worryingly high number of cases doesn't significantly improve future employment prospects and decide that it's simply not worth it, universities will be forced to respond.
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#8 - bartemaeus (09/23/2016) [-]
It's not that people aren't paying for school. Whether or not students pay off their loans, the schools have already received their money.
It's a pretty straightforward capitalist principle that if people want something enough to pay a lot of money for it, the industry will raise prices to maximize profits. You're definitely right though, that schools aren't spending the money wisely. Usually, the spending is funneled largely towards a larger administrative layer.
You're also right that spending thousands of dollars to get a degree in philosophy is a bad investment, but that's on the kid.
And I believe you're right again that if loans became harder to acquire, the resulting reduction in demand for higher education would inevitably lower its cost.
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#11 - fargfive (09/23/2016) [-]
And as for fixing the problem, I think the best place to start is eliminating university as an expectation. There are plenty of professions that explicitly require a college degree in their field, but there are significantly more that simply don't need one at all. The issue is you can't just tell people to stop going to college because you'll just create a population that's effectively unemployable because they don't have degrees that they probably don't really need in the first place. You'd have to convince employers and society at large to stop viewing higher education as something that everyone's expected to do regardless of their career goals, and then probably push for highschools to pick up the slack.
#15 - anon (09/23/2016) [-]
You want private businesses (universities) to stop advertising their product so they couldn't sell more?. Good luck. The problem is no one coordinates anything - everyone cares about its personal profit. And if millions of people get screwed - well, someone has to get screwed for someone to screw others to have big money. The capitalist way. Banks make money off usury, universities sell their product, private corporations get more supply of educated workers, so they can pay them less - ordinary person gets less money for bigger effort. The capitalist way.
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#47 - fargfive (09/23/2016) [-]
Not at all, in fact I think expecting universities/the government to do the work is part the problem. The trick is getting employers (and arguably the rest of society) to stop treating unnecessary and expensive degrees like they're absolutely required to do anything other than flip burgers. Students deal with high tuition because they're expected to and if they don't go to a private university that will put them in debt for the next 20 years they go to a public university where they'll spend 4 years and plenty of money on a degree that they probably don't need. If college wasn't treated like the logical extension of education after highschool, employers that didn't really need it would probably stop looking for it, resulting in people who can't afford it not going.

I mention highschool because as a direct result of highschool->college education assumption, Highschools particularly in the US are slacking. They provide preparation for college but little else, not an education that can really stand on their own.
The solution to all this isn't an easy budgeting fix, but rather a cultural shift that would take generations to really be effective.
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#10 - fargfive (09/23/2016) [-]
Yeah, that was worded poorly. I meant that universities can get away with charging so much for tuition because between government grants (which looks like free money to students but that money is coming from somewhere) and loans their 20k a semester tuition shrinks to 5k. It seems more manageable because they don't think about having to pay back loans over the course of the rest of their life.
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#7 - thatguyontheright (09/23/2016) [-]
Well if good paying jobs that didn't require college didn't mostly go to China...the cost of higher education wouldn't be inflating.
#5 - fargfive has deleted their comment.