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|#44079 - Oh I almost forgot, I added in a final goblet squat set with 1…||03/26/2016 on Fitness - muscle and...||0|
|#44078 - >Go to gym >crowded as ****, can't do deadlifts yet… [+] (51 new replies)||03/26/2016 on Fitness - muscle and...||+3|
#44125 - studbeefpile (03/27/2016) [-]
I got to a 500lb deadlift mainly using the 20 rep progression to lay the foundation for that strength. It builds strength and size like you wouldn't believe, but most people are too pussy to commit to it.
Good mornings are an inferior exercise. They have their place, but the deadlift is a better overall movement. They do not have 100x more isolation. They do not build more power as efficiently.
You're a goof. Repent.
#44138 - mendelevium (03/27/2016) [-]
Good mornings are a far better exercise for glute and lower back development, not as good for quads though.
When you are in a dl stance your legs are usually more bent to get down towards the bar, in a good morning you only bend your legs a small amount to get the most possible stretch in the gluteal and lumbar regions when bending forward, isolating those two muscle groups. So they do have more isolation.
That and it is accpeted and treated as fact for nearly every single major weightlifting group in the world that higher reps do not build STRENGTH as well as low reps.
Even most crossfit athletes agrees, and they are borderline retarded.
So your sets of 20 did little to help with a 500lb dl and good morning do have more power then 20 reps of dl.
I've never heard from a less credible source of information in my life, marinepenguin you really doing these cuz he said "but most people are too pussy to commit to it"?
I'm a bodybuilder, not a powerlifter, so obviously I'm not going to brag about my weights because I do them for reps of 8 or 12, but my gym buddy got to 500lb deadlift in a year and a half of powerlifting, and 500lb deadlift isn't to much to brag about. Like I don't even do DL that often and I do can get 405 up and that's with bodybuilder training.
#44149 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
"lay the foundation for that strength"
"builds strength and size"
I never said they were the best for refining strength, I said they were the best for laying a foundation. Obviously you need lower reps at a higher intensity to train your nervous system, and obviously you need to work on your reading comprehension skills. The 20 rep progression the way I do it (as endorsed by George Leeman, a 900+ deadlifter), involves peaking up to your new max over time.
Good mornings have their place, but overall they are an inferior movement. I challenge you to find any high level lifter that says good mornings are a superior movement to the deadlift. If you want glutes and hams, RDLs and oly squats will get you much further, and of course the deadlift is the supreme movement for building the back - namely the lumbar erectors, but also the lats if you perform it correctly, which you probably don't.
405 is child weight. I pulled 400 in competition under the scrutiny of judges when I was 17. Your 405 gym lift means nothing. Two years later - after incurring a couple injures from being stupid, then rehabbing myself - I pulled 500 relatively easily, which I have a video of in case you don't believe me.
I don't say things for the sake of saying them. I'm speaking from a few years of experience - with myself, and also successfully coaching others - and studying high level athletes. It is very rare that I see the good morning highly endorsed by anyone, bodybuilder or powerlifter.
It's okay to be wrong sometimes, just accept it.
You are still a goof. You must still repent.
#44171 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
Deadlift is great for building them gainz, when used in reps less than 10.
hitting hypertrophy in deadlift is like saying "fuck spine bruh, aint need that shit"
Its risk as fuck, and there are safer better ways to hit quads, glutes, hams, and lats.
Straight Leg DL is great for that
ass to grass sqwats
Like do those for 20 reps so you don't throw out your back and bang around weight for a minute in the gym like an ass.
No one is going to say good morning is better than deadlift because it is simply not true, you are right. But good morning for REPS of 20? 100x better then DL for reps of 20 on any day of the week.
Also you probably follow powerlifters as where I follow bodybuilders. Most powerlifters probably don't even know what a good morning is. While most bodybuilders don't care for getting their DL up. So they aren't going to compare the two like we are now.
#44172 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
You are actually retarded. Like, legitimately, you have to have some sort of handicap.
You're spelling and grammar is shit - I have a hard time understanding half the stuff you say because you keep making grammatical errors and typos, and you also don't know anything about lifting/building muscle and strength. Congratulations, you did a couple curls, and are officially slightly bigger than the average person. Talk to me when you've been successfully lifting and coaching for a few years like I have.
You keep mentioning that I'm fat, which literally has nothing to do with my deadlift or musculature. Like I said, maybe for the bench, but we aren't talking about that. Calling me fat is all you have because you're weak, small, ignorant, and can't actually discredit what I'm saying. My back is perfectly healthy, and the only times I've had issues with it, have been after doing lower reps, and letting my ego get in the way, and allowing form break down. Doing higher reps have actually fortified my back, and built a great foundation for injury free lifting.
Honestly, if anything, the good morning is a more dangerous movement, and puts an even greater strain on your back, using significantly less weight.
You have no experience, you are small and weak, and your only ammo against me is calling me fat. Go back to middle school, because apparently that's where you got your ability to argue.
#44174 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
First off, in the start I was replying nicely and with good grammar/spelling cuz I thought potentially you would listen for a second, now I'm just in it for the keks because you understand nothing about fitness.
I call you fat cuz you flex your "lats" like you are fluffing a pillow. You have no lats fam, you're just tucking in fat.
I really triggered ya didn't I?
What do you coach? Eating contests?
You understand nothing about fitness if you can't control your weight and nutrient intake.
Took my bud a year to go from a 315 to a 500, your bragging point is the amount of time you spend in the gym. "Years" apparently, yet you look like some fat kid and your weights aren't even big.
Doing higher reps COULD fortify your back, but you know what else could do it safer?
And its not that much of a lower weight, I do good mornings with 225 usually.
You have no gainz, your fat and weak, and your only ammo against me is insulting me.
#44179 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
Still never responded to MP's sourced facts.
Still never addressed your complete lack of Lumbar Erectors.
"Your buddy" pulled 500, huh? What, hitched and with straps? Sure buddy.
Admittedly it's possible that really happened. I honestly spent a couple years spinning my wheels because I had to figure a lot of stuff out on my own, but now I've been making great progress. Benched 300, squatted 405, pulled 500, all from doing my own programming and research.
I've done quite a lot of coaching. From rehabbing a 55 year olds knees, to getting a friend of mine from a 175 bench, to 225, and a 295 deadlift, to 350x6, all in a few months, to my most recent coaching escapade, where I got a chick I know to lose 15lbs (from ~150 to ~135), all while getting stronger throughout. So I actually do understand nutrition to a good degree, believe it or not. In fact, the first "fitness" thing I ever did was lose 50lbs when I was 15. And even now I'll typically cut a good 10lbs in a week or so for competition a couple times a year. Weight loss is easy.
I also compete. Benching with a pause, squatting to depth, and pulling clean on the platform, is much different than claiming gym lifts.
I have proven credentials. I have videos of my lifts, and I have pictures of my most recent client. What do you have? One or two lines on your back, a shitty deadlift, and arms that are somehow smaller than my tiny 16s? What is your source for any of your information? I'm going off the knowledge of people like George Leeman, Chris Duffin, Pete Rubish, etc.
Your initial argument against me was that I was just saying "no you're wrong" without any back up, but that's all you've done this whole time. Marinepenguin has given sources, I've listed experience, you have nothing.
#44183 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
Oh so thats your "credentials" huh? Well in that case I'm a personal trainer, I got 3 of my exs to drop 15 pounds and gain an inch on their ass with my glute routine, got their squat ass to grass from just the bar to bar and 25s. I've taught 2 friends how to get 10 full range of motion pull ups, and I've been from 120lbs to 200lbs in a year and a half and then 178lbs(taken today) 3 months later. Weight loss is easy, so why not do it?
My buddy was a bodybuilder for a year and never hit dl, the first ever time he tried, untrained he went from 135 to 225 to 315, 315 his first time deadlifting. Thats some crazy shit.
I workout in an actual gym, I'm not making people film me on PRs.
I ask questions about the sources and you don't answer.
Where does deadlift give you size? Glutes? Hams? Lumbar? Lats?
So do other exercises that are much safer and better for high reps nigga.
your just risking injury at high rep dl, you could make so much more gainz with other workouts with high reps. The only thing high rep dl do is risk throwing out your back. Trying to prevent you guys from killing each other fam, no need for the salt.
#44186 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
Yes, the deadlift gives you size in all of those areas. Glutes, lumbar, lats, hams, and even your forearms if you don't use straps. Deadlifts are not bad for your back, deadlifts performed incorrectly are bad for your back. That goes for any movement. Hell, good mornings done with bad form can kill your back just as easily, and the same goes for the squat. (And you still never addressed why you completely lack any lumbar Erectors)
I don't focus on weight loss because I work construction full time, and I like to eat a lot. I'm also married. I just don't have time to be doing sprints and stuff.
The deadlift is hailed by ALL experienced lifters and coaches as one of the best overall mass building movements.
P.s. a 315 deadlift from a bodybuilder is not impressive. I pulled 300 when I was 14 or 15.
#44120 - marinepenguin (03/27/2016) [-]
When I do deadlifts I feel it in my entire lower body. It's not meant to be an isolation type thing. If I wanted to hit just hamstrings/lower back I'd do good mornings or Romanian DLs.
Studbeefpile has also seen some pretty sick results from doing them, and he's got a far stronger deadlift than me.
#44139 - mendelevium (03/27/2016) [-]
Well if you are doing it to fell in your whole lower body their are better ways to get that feel.
DL don't build as much size as most other exercise considering they use almost every muscle and are universally recognized as the "heavy" exercise, as in you should be doing them for low reps.
If you are doing DL for size then you should just do another exercise like squat or good morning or anything OTHER than dl because using your ENTIRE body in one rep is obviously not going to build size compared to like an isolation curl which exhausts the muscle to its core.
If you are doing DL for strength which is what its made for, you should be doing lower reps, every bodybuilder, powerlifter, yoga instructor, PE teacher, mom with a treadmill knows that low reps are for strength and high reps are for endurance.
#44144 - marinepenguin (03/28/2016) [-]
>Well if you are doing it to fell in your whole lower body their are better ways to get that feel.
Sure, but I don't do deadllifts because I feel it in my lower body, I do it because its a primal compound movement that is one of the best for building overall strength and size
>DL don't build as much size as most other exercise considering they use almost every muscle and are universally recognized as the "heavy" exercise, as in you should be doing them for low reps.
This is literally 100% wrong, deadlifts rival the squat as one of the best posterior chain developers and overall mass builders
>If you are doing DL for size then you should just do another exercise like squat or good morning or anything OTHER than dl because using your ENTIRE body in one rep is obviously not going to build size compared to like an isolation curl which exhausts the muscle to its core.
You really believe that an isolation movement is going to build greater overall size and strength compared to a large compound movement? Isolation is great, I love working more as a bodybuilder, and I do plenty of it. But to say "curls are better for size than deadlifts" is pure ignorance and a lack of basic knowledge. This isn't even an argument.
>If you are doing DL for strength which is what its made for, you should be doing lower reps, every bodybuilder, powerlifter, yoga instructor, PE teacher, mom with a treadmill knows that low reps are for strength and high reps are for endurance.
The deadlift is usually trained for lower reps because it has a high strain on the central nervous system and technique breakdown is a huge issue that can cause injury if you aren't careful. On the flip side, higher reps when good technique is maintained created a state of fatigue that primes your body for building muscle. Higher reps = hypertrophy, not "endurance".
#44145 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
For strength sure.
But you said it yourself later, "higher reps when good technique is maintained created a state of fatigue that primes your body for building muscle"
Its hard to do hypertrophy when you are hitting every muscle in the posterior chain. That's why you feel a "burn" in your bicep during concentration curls, because of the isolation.
Where are you getting your info for "deadlifts rival the squat as one of the best posterior chain developers and overall mass builders"?
I almost never do DL and my lats and glutes are easily the biggest and most well worked part of my body. If I do legs there are 100 exercises better for them then DL and there are alot the are just as good if not better for lower back.
I wasn't arguing curls are better for size, that's apples to oranges at that point, I was doing a comparison. But curls are better for size in the bicep then pullups or rows are. A compound movement is great for strength, youll build a great squat with a good DL but you arnt going to have god quads by doing JUST dls and you arnt going to have bat wing lats. Leg press builds legs, not DL. Pull ups build lats, not DL. Lats and legs help the DL not the other way around.
Hypertrophy in DL is pointless, like you said its risky because it ruins form, but as I have just said, its better to do a squat or a leg press for size in the legs then it is to do dl, and its better to do a pulldown or a pullup then to DL for lats.
#44159 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
Bigger than you, buddy. What are you, like 170?
Yeah, I'm pretty fat, but I'm also 6' tall and weigh 230.
The only clear test of someone's experience is their strength. I deadlift about 100lbs more than you do, and I'm sure I've got you beat everywhere else too. Just because I like to eat, doesn't mean you have anything meaningful on me. You are ignorant, small, and inexperienced. I don't like young yolos spreading misinformation. Go back to doing curls and blogging on bodybuilding.com .
lol, you didn't even try to respond to marinepenguin because you don't have shit to stand on.
P.S. you have no lumbar erectors, and your lats aren't half as well developed as mine, you're just skinny. You could get your physique just by swimming. Sorry, no offense, but it's true.
#44160 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
230 DLing 500?
Hahah holy fuck, no wonder you hit 500, standing up could be your reps.
6ft and 230 is generally labeled as obese.
Your body fat means that yeah if you push in your love handles any fuckboi could look like they have lats, but you can't even do a pullup.
My muscle mass per pound is so much higher than yours, and me weighing 170 and you weighing 230 makes me stronger per pound too.
I don't even do strength training and I'm stronger then you boi.
I didnt respond cuz im high as a kite right now, not trying to read shit till tomorrow.
P.S. your lats are fat, you can't even do a pullup, and your DL is shit for your weight, I know kids 3/4 your weight that pull 500 for reps.
#44163 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
For the record, this isn't some kind of dick measuring contest to me. I could give a shit about what some small kid on the internet thought of me. This is about not letting dipshits misinform other people. Deadlifts build your low back, lats, hams, and glutes, and all very efficiently. If you disagree, you're wrong.
#44168 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
>Here you go, here are my lats
>does chin ups
top fucking kek m8
You know where your lats are?
Last time I checked they weren't your biceps fam.
Deadlifts do build that all, and pretty well.
But not with hypertrophy.
Not with reps, if you are going to risk yourself doing 20 reps and fucking the form then just 20 reps of somethings else like good mornings because it's safer and will be targeting the same area but better.
You're spreading misinformation that could injure someone, if I'm wrong the worst thats gana happen is... Well nothing really, they just wont be doing sets of 20 dl.
This "small kid" btw doesn't even train dl and hits 405 when you hit 500 and he is 175~ when you are 230. Fuck nigga, give me an extra 60 pounds and I'd hit 500 too.
#44162 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
Fat does not move weight. Me liking to eat has nothing to do with my strength. Maybe it'd help out in the bench a bit, but definitely not the deadlift. In fact, a lot of deadlifters find they have better leverages when they lean out.
I don't train pull ups, but I can bang out a good few....because, you know, I have big lats.
#44169 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
I usually shit post on /fit/ but I stop by here sometimes.
I'd stay longer but most of you are either dyel, crossfit, or fat kids who justify their eating with "muh muh powerlifting".
But what happened bro?
Looking the same as last time.
I get the whole "Military" thing but damn, stealing your gainz fam.
This is what I look like now.
#44192 - marinepenguin (03/28/2016) [-]
I haven't used my military training as an excuse, but I went into basic at 216 pounds, and came out 178, I managed to put on 40 pounds in less than 2 months to reach that 220 before Tech School, and I've lost 20 pounds since I've been here. I've still managed to see consistent muscle gain and strength improvement while having a schedule that keeps me from doing that.
I wasn't attacking you personally in any of my comments, but it seems that when you can't prove your point, you have to try and result to insults. I hope you can chill and become a solid member of this board, but if not, nothing lost.
#44182 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
Difference is what we are flexing, you are flexing forearms, I'm going for long head bicep.
But look at waist to upper arm ratio.
Shits almost 3:2 for me
You looking like a marshmallow with stick arms.
No V taper either, nice ass though. Be better with good mornings.
#44184 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
Exactly, I'm flexing my forearm, and my bicep is STILL bigger and more vascular than yours. I hardly even train biceps. You know what I do? Lots of rows and supinated cable pull downs, and it works, because heavy compounds are great for building muscle, but you wouldn't know that.
#44185 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
#44175 - anon (03/28/2016) [-]
Watch out for those 14 inch pythons
#44167 - studbeefpile (03/28/2016) [-]
20-30 lbs is waaaay more than most people think it is. He just looks like an average swimmer kid, or someone that does pullups sometimes.
That's kind of beside the point though, we're just talking about how deadlift does in fact, work the back. And then also stopping ignorant jackasses from spreading their dumbassery.
#44147 - marinepenguin (03/28/2016) [-]
#44146 - marinepenguin (03/28/2016) [-]
You seem to think that working more muscles at once equals less hypertrophy. Isolation is great for pumps, hypertrophy, and overall muscular development, but if you are looking to build overall mass, using a movement that you can use heavier weights on for extended periods is going to give you the best progress. The deadlift is one of those movements where you move the most weight, yes the load is distributed over a larger area of mass, which is why you can use MORE of a load and see greater overall strength and size gains over a longer period of time. Personally I neglected the deadlift until about a year ago and since getting up to a 4 plate deadlift I've seen a ton of great progress with my overall physique and size.
I literally googled, "deadlifts for size" and the first 6 articles were discussing it as being an amazing mass building, some obviously placing it up with the squat. Like a said, whether or not the deadlift is a good overall mass builder or not isn't even a discussion, it's a literal fact.
And curls aren't even the best bicep builder, most people see better size gains from weighted pullups or reverse grip rows, especially long limbed individuals like me.
>youll build a great squat with a good DL but you arnt going to have god quads by doing JUST dls and you arnt going to have bat wing lats. Leg press builds legs, not DL. Pull ups build lats, not DL. Lats and legs help the DL not the other way around.
I agree with the quads, DL is mostly posterior chain, I just have long limbs, which makes me have to "squat" the weight up more and use more quads. But ever since learning how to properly use my lats in the deadlift, not only have my deadlift numbers gone up, but my lats have been growing more where pullups didn't give me anything for them. The leg press is a good hypertrophy builder, but it doesn't carry over to the squat.
#44161 - mendelevium (03/28/2016) [-]
You barely flex the lat in a deadlift compared to a pullup or pulldown.
Ok so if they dont grow your legs as well as squat
and they dont grow my lats as well as pullups
and they dont help with glutes as much as good morning.
What the fuck is all this deadlifts for size shit.
Where am I getting this "size"
Not the three biggest posterior muscles, I could do those other three compound movements that work 100% better and I can do easily for reps with less fatigue, and more sets as well as getting a better contraction and less risk.
Is the size in my hamstrings? I good mornings are great for that too.
for one exercise its great for 3 mucles all that same time.
But if I could only do DL
or I could do
I would much prefer those movements for size.
#44165 - marinepenguin (03/28/2016) [-]
Then just do those three bro, I'm not gonna tell you how to lift weights. But you're missing out on a lot. Good mornings are neither safer, nor a more powerful movement and I've never heard anyone claim that.
Personally while deadlifting, my traps, lats and hamstrings have done very well and overall ice just gotten stronger and packed on more muscle than I ever have. There's also more ways to build muscle that just TUT, you don't necessarily need a lot of ROM in a muscle to get it to grow. Accumulation of waste, fatigue, and things like the occlusion effect also create hypertrophy.
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#44065 - Sewallman (03/25/2016) [-]
I thought so at least. I'm moving into a new place and the basement is already going to be a space for me. Drum kit, recording equipment and all of my work out equipment that I already own right now it's just a bench, weight plate dumbbells and a barbell. The rack will be a nice enhancement for things.
All I'd need after getting this is just some different handles/ropes for the lat pull down. Maybe the tricep dip bars for the rack as well.
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