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    Hmmm, yes. Hmmm, yes.
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    I have nothing to say I have nothing to say
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    Japan...why? Japan...why?
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    (untitled) (untitled)
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    Someone make a real gun out of this Someone make a real gun out of this
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    All your base All your base
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#111 - I admit that there is a good possibility of Putin pulling a Hi… 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper 0
#108 - I may have given notion of him needing spots to park his milit…  [+] (1 new reply) 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper 0
User avatar #114 - zevran (07/22/2014) [-]
Russia has a great many ports. If it could do without Crimea for 50 + years it can do without now. If they really need a great commercial port they can construct one using their petroleum money, instead of investing it all in new millitary hardware.

As for an intervention in Russia. Won't happen. It's far too powerful for that, and they can veto any FN decision from the Security council.

The rebels are done for soon anyway. The Ukrainian army will have control over the area within at most a few months. Crimea will likely remain de-facto part of Russia, but part of Ukraine diplomatically in the eyes of most of the world.

All I'm saying is that it's dangerous to allow a country to breach international norm and law in the way Russia is allowed to do it. The US and NATO may stomp on the rights of some countries. But in the end they leave their territorial integrity alone.

I'm saying this as a Norwegian btw. We've got a border with Russia, and a few islands up north they claim they should possess....
#93 - I point you to my argument with abstractpink to let you know t…  [+] (3 new replies) 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper 0
User avatar #102 - zevran (07/22/2014) [-]
Okay. Let me point out a few things to you.

In europe, no country has annexed part of another country by force since 1945. This is a ressult of the balance of power which has kept europe largely peaceful for the last 70 years.

One of the core principles of international law, and indeed one of the things keeping the entire world somewhat peaceful (you will note that no Great Powers have been at war since WW2, is that a country's territorial integrity is respected.

Thus, by breaching the territorial integrity of Ukraine (a major country with 40 million citizens, in europe) Russia has disturbed the global balance of power at its core, and made the world very uncertain. Especially for weak countries that borders it, which do not have NATO or EU protection.

If a country is allowed to bully and take what they want from its neighbours simply because they want to then the world become a very dangerous place indeed. What stops Germany from taking back East-Prussia from Poland for example? Would Poland be able to stop Germany? Of course not. But Germany would never do such a thing. They respect international law.

Russia do not even 'need' Crimea. Their Black Sea fleet could easily be moved to one of their other countless Black Sea ports. One could say their ports are not large enough. But if Putin can afford to build a new city for the Olympics he can construct a port for his Cold war era fleet as well.

The real reason Putin took Crimea was to punish the Ukrainians for not bending over a desk for him, to send a signal to other former Soviet union countries about what happens to those who defy him. Nations like Kazhakstan can't expect any EU support at all. It's thus a strong signal.

Also, the Russian economy is doing poorly. Putin wasn't as popular as he'd been, and he needs to have at least a pretense of democracy. So he saw a chance to win easy nationalistic points with his poorly educated population.

Running out of characters. I can't be bothered to write more.
User avatar #108 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I may have given notion of him needing spots to park his military fleet, this is however, not my main point of focus with my statements.

My main point of focus is that Russia needs Crimea for commercial needs more than anything else. Russia, although big, has little amount of ports to use for trade.

More as a sidenote than anything else: I want to make it absolutely clear that I do not support the Russians, hell I'm currently aiming to be a student officer and eventually officer for the Belgian army to help with military interventions with Russia if needed. (Although this is one of many reasons, I tell this last bit to avoid comments such as "you are naive" etc.)
User avatar #114 - zevran (07/22/2014) [-]
Russia has a great many ports. If it could do without Crimea for 50 + years it can do without now. If they really need a great commercial port they can construct one using their petroleum money, instead of investing it all in new millitary hardware.

As for an intervention in Russia. Won't happen. It's far too powerful for that, and they can veto any FN decision from the Security council.

The rebels are done for soon anyway. The Ukrainian army will have control over the area within at most a few months. Crimea will likely remain de-facto part of Russia, but part of Ukraine diplomatically in the eyes of most of the world.

All I'm saying is that it's dangerous to allow a country to breach international norm and law in the way Russia is allowed to do it. The US and NATO may stomp on the rights of some countries. But in the end they leave their territorial integrity alone.

I'm saying this as a Norwegian btw. We've got a border with Russia, and a few islands up north they claim they should possess....
#92 - If you're going to argue with someone, do your best to at leas…  [+] (2 new replies) 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper 0
User avatar #105 - reginleif (07/22/2014) [-]
>What happened in 1930 is completely ignoring what Germany was doing.

It's not, this is a perfect example of what Putin is doing. Annexing territory under pretense of protecting their minorities in other countries isn't a baseless accusation this is literally what Hitler did.

Weak European response/ a general lack of fuck's to give for unimportant countries....

People like to cry Hitler, but here we have a textbook case of some madman taking over countries in order to fulfill his ambitions of past glory. Whether is be Reich or Union.

User avatar #111 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I admit that there is a good possibility of Putin pulling a Hitler, but nonetheless, it's only a possibility. We are going to take a massive hit in the public relations department if we have it completely wrong.

That's not to say, we don't have to prepare for a possible military intervention, if not war.
War is entirely plausible. People in this comment section take me for some pro-Russian, which I am not. I'm only trying to tell people to NOT jump the gun. Wait and see and polish your rifles while you're at it, just on the safe side. Russia has more than enough excuses to do what they are doing.
#63 - Yes we need to co-operate, I understand. You have my full co-o… 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper 0
#60 - It seems you are implying that I support the direct military a…  [+] (1 new reply) 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper 0
User avatar #100 - avengeralpha (07/22/2014) [-]
Hey man good to see another person that can see the bigger picture the Russian gov really has nowhere to turn in search of safety almost all of Europe is in NATO and China while able to support Russia in the UN on certain topics can not be counted on in any real world situations due to their reliance on foreign business. When President Viktor Yanukovych was ousted Russia realized that the next leader of Ukraine would likely revoke their rights to house their fleet in Crimea. The Separatist groups in Crimea gave Russia the perfect way to.
1. avoid a war against Ukraine
2. Keep control of the black sea

Also the current state of civil war while not started by the Russians is the perfect smokescreen The Ukrainian gov cannot do anything to Crimea while this civil war is going on. So why wouldn't Russia support these Freedom Fighters, it is no different to anything that the US, France, GB have done before. Only this time it is against their interest so they are acting all hypocritical about it. Also Iran Air Flight 655 shows how hypocritical Western media is acting.

In Conclusion Russia is doing the same things that most major countries have done.
#53 - "only did that out of pressure" Hoh, the Russians ar…  [+] (9 new replies) 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper 0
#82 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
And you're saying Russian media doesn't demonize NATO? You must be new here.

Also, the logic you're using is what we call "appeasement". That worked just fine in the 1930s, right? In case you're really that fucking dense, it failed spectacularly, resulting in World War II.
User avatar #92 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
If you're going to argue with someone, do your best to at least see what they say. I said in a later post that the Russian media most likely demonizes the NATO as well, but when you look at this all, you can just make the analogy with two toddlers yelling really hard at each other.

Instead, we should be a bit more mature, let them have Crimea as it is clear they need it for their commerce and keep a very close eye on them. What happened in 1930 is completely ignoring what Germany was doing.
User avatar #105 - reginleif (07/22/2014) [-]
>What happened in 1930 is completely ignoring what Germany was doing.

It's not, this is a perfect example of what Putin is doing. Annexing territory under pretense of protecting their minorities in other countries isn't a baseless accusation this is literally what Hitler did.

Weak European response/ a general lack of fuck's to give for unimportant countries....

People like to cry Hitler, but here we have a textbook case of some madman taking over countries in order to fulfill his ambitions of past glory. Whether is be Reich or Union.

User avatar #111 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I admit that there is a good possibility of Putin pulling a Hitler, but nonetheless, it's only a possibility. We are going to take a massive hit in the public relations department if we have it completely wrong.

That's not to say, we don't have to prepare for a possible military intervention, if not war.
War is entirely plausible. People in this comment section take me for some pro-Russian, which I am not. I'm only trying to tell people to NOT jump the gun. Wait and see and polish your rifles while you're at it, just on the safe side. Russia has more than enough excuses to do what they are doing.
User avatar #55 - abstractpink (07/22/2014) [-]
Just because they have a need for something doesn't mean their allowed to just take it; again that just shows typical Russian arrogance. They fucked up, made a horrible mistake, and they should never be allowed to even think about Crimea any longer, this isn't kindergarten, this is nations and politics, and Russia should not be treated like a special ed child. Crimea does not belong to them, Ukraine does not want to give it to them, too fucking bad.
User avatar #130 - dummerbaztard (07/22/2014) [-]
Damn you sound excatly like someone who aalways just watches some american mainstream news and hears "russia = bad" and immediately adapts the idea.

No one said Russia was allowed to do it, but it's like you dont even see how the USA does everything in its might to make Russia look as bad as possible.
User avatar #142 - abstractpink (23 hours ago) [-]
I am anti-American and anti-Russian, because I dislike both countries.
User avatar #60 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
It seems you are implying that I support the direct military actions by Russia.
So I will repeat, no, I do not think using military force here was the best of ideas, but honestly, I find it hard to blame them.

Also, there are separatists in Crimea, they want to join up with Russia, so what Ukraine wants is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

The Russians keep gaining excuses to justify their actions, and if Europe doesn't cut it's losses soon and stop giving Russia reasons to get angry, we will get ourselves in a situation that's going to be worse than the little skirmish in Ukraine.

Russia isn't a "special ed child"? Yeah, sure, fair enough. Doesn't mean we can afford to stop giving it special treatment. Is special treatment unfair? Fuck yes it is.
There is nothing we can really do about that, the world is already set up in an unfair way, and blatantly ignoring special cases just to be able to give equal treatment is childish and immensely stupid.

Now, I want to point out that you have stated "typical Russian arrogance". This, my fellow westerner, is the reason the West is flaring up against Russia. I wish to refrain from saying "conspiracy theory" but you can not deny that the media does it's best to demonize the Russians, resulting in mutual hatred created by the media, because I'm very certain Russian media does the same to instigate hatred towards us.

It is time to take two steps back and look at the entire picture.
The Russians have a lot of excuses, Crimea having been originally Russian being one of them.

Are they petty reasons? Yeah, but petty reasons is what exactly lead to World War 1 and therefore World War 2 as well.

It's not fun to give in, but if you are a pacifist, like many other westerners, it's time to just go "Yes Russia, take Crimea, but that's all you get. We'll keep a close eye on you" and I'm sure the Russians will just go "Alright, this is all we needed, thank you for your business" and that should be fine unless greed becomes prevalent.
User avatar #100 - avengeralpha (07/22/2014) [-]
Hey man good to see another person that can see the bigger picture the Russian gov really has nowhere to turn in search of safety almost all of Europe is in NATO and China while able to support Russia in the UN on certain topics can not be counted on in any real world situations due to their reliance on foreign business. When President Viktor Yanukovych was ousted Russia realized that the next leader of Ukraine would likely revoke their rights to house their fleet in Crimea. The Separatist groups in Crimea gave Russia the perfect way to.
1. avoid a war against Ukraine
2. Keep control of the black sea

Also the current state of civil war while not started by the Russians is the perfect smokescreen The Ukrainian gov cannot do anything to Crimea while this civil war is going on. So why wouldn't Russia support these Freedom Fighters, it is no different to anything that the US, France, GB have done before. Only this time it is against their interest so they are acting all hypocritical about it. Also Iran Air Flight 655 shows how hypocritical Western media is acting.

In Conclusion Russia is doing the same things that most major countries have done.
#43 - I don't think I've really explicitly said military. Crimea is …  [+] (12 new replies) 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper -1
#116 - shadowgandalf (07/22/2014) [-]
Then Denmark should get back skåne, a huge chunck of northern Germany and the fucking entirety of Norway.
#44 - abstractpink (07/22/2014) [-]
Those are bad examples, especially Israel because we only did that out of pressure; the jews have no business there, nor do the Russians have business in Crimea; they can do fine with and without Crimea, and even if they really needed it, trying to inaved it is wrong.


Russia is an opressed country with no respect for other nations whatsoever, and they shouldn't be allowed to take anything.
User avatar #53 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
"only did that out of pressure" Hoh, the Russians aren't exactly in a state to relax either.

I find it terrible that Western media does everything they can to demonize the Russians.
I do not say that invading a country was particularly smart, or morally just, but you can at least take two steps back, look and then say "Oh... Yeah, I kind of understand what they're driving at, but try to talk it out a bit first."
#82 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
And you're saying Russian media doesn't demonize NATO? You must be new here.

Also, the logic you're using is what we call "appeasement". That worked just fine in the 1930s, right? In case you're really that fucking dense, it failed spectacularly, resulting in World War II.
User avatar #92 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
If you're going to argue with someone, do your best to at least see what they say. I said in a later post that the Russian media most likely demonizes the NATO as well, but when you look at this all, you can just make the analogy with two toddlers yelling really hard at each other.

Instead, we should be a bit more mature, let them have Crimea as it is clear they need it for their commerce and keep a very close eye on them. What happened in 1930 is completely ignoring what Germany was doing.
User avatar #105 - reginleif (07/22/2014) [-]
>What happened in 1930 is completely ignoring what Germany was doing.

It's not, this is a perfect example of what Putin is doing. Annexing territory under pretense of protecting their minorities in other countries isn't a baseless accusation this is literally what Hitler did.

Weak European response/ a general lack of fuck's to give for unimportant countries....

People like to cry Hitler, but here we have a textbook case of some madman taking over countries in order to fulfill his ambitions of past glory. Whether is be Reich or Union.

User avatar #111 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I admit that there is a good possibility of Putin pulling a Hitler, but nonetheless, it's only a possibility. We are going to take a massive hit in the public relations department if we have it completely wrong.

That's not to say, we don't have to prepare for a possible military intervention, if not war.
War is entirely plausible. People in this comment section take me for some pro-Russian, which I am not. I'm only trying to tell people to NOT jump the gun. Wait and see and polish your rifles while you're at it, just on the safe side. Russia has more than enough excuses to do what they are doing.
User avatar #55 - abstractpink (07/22/2014) [-]
Just because they have a need for something doesn't mean their allowed to just take it; again that just shows typical Russian arrogance. They fucked up, made a horrible mistake, and they should never be allowed to even think about Crimea any longer, this isn't kindergarten, this is nations and politics, and Russia should not be treated like a special ed child. Crimea does not belong to them, Ukraine does not want to give it to them, too fucking bad.
User avatar #130 - dummerbaztard (07/22/2014) [-]
Damn you sound excatly like someone who aalways just watches some american mainstream news and hears "russia = bad" and immediately adapts the idea.

No one said Russia was allowed to do it, but it's like you dont even see how the USA does everything in its might to make Russia look as bad as possible.
User avatar #142 - abstractpink (23 hours ago) [-]
I am anti-American and anti-Russian, because I dislike both countries.
User avatar #60 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
It seems you are implying that I support the direct military actions by Russia.
So I will repeat, no, I do not think using military force here was the best of ideas, but honestly, I find it hard to blame them.

Also, there are separatists in Crimea, they want to join up with Russia, so what Ukraine wants is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

The Russians keep gaining excuses to justify their actions, and if Europe doesn't cut it's losses soon and stop giving Russia reasons to get angry, we will get ourselves in a situation that's going to be worse than the little skirmish in Ukraine.

Russia isn't a "special ed child"? Yeah, sure, fair enough. Doesn't mean we can afford to stop giving it special treatment. Is special treatment unfair? Fuck yes it is.
There is nothing we can really do about that, the world is already set up in an unfair way, and blatantly ignoring special cases just to be able to give equal treatment is childish and immensely stupid.

Now, I want to point out that you have stated "typical Russian arrogance". This, my fellow westerner, is the reason the West is flaring up against Russia. I wish to refrain from saying "conspiracy theory" but you can not deny that the media does it's best to demonize the Russians, resulting in mutual hatred created by the media, because I'm very certain Russian media does the same to instigate hatred towards us.

It is time to take two steps back and look at the entire picture.
The Russians have a lot of excuses, Crimea having been originally Russian being one of them.

Are they petty reasons? Yeah, but petty reasons is what exactly lead to World War 1 and therefore World War 2 as well.

It's not fun to give in, but if you are a pacifist, like many other westerners, it's time to just go "Yes Russia, take Crimea, but that's all you get. We'll keep a close eye on you" and I'm sure the Russians will just go "Alright, this is all we needed, thank you for your business" and that should be fine unless greed becomes prevalent.
User avatar #100 - avengeralpha (07/22/2014) [-]
Hey man good to see another person that can see the bigger picture the Russian gov really has nowhere to turn in search of safety almost all of Europe is in NATO and China while able to support Russia in the UN on certain topics can not be counted on in any real world situations due to their reliance on foreign business. When President Viktor Yanukovych was ousted Russia realized that the next leader of Ukraine would likely revoke their rights to house their fleet in Crimea. The Separatist groups in Crimea gave Russia the perfect way to.
1. avoid a war against Ukraine
2. Keep control of the black sea

Also the current state of civil war while not started by the Russians is the perfect smokescreen The Ukrainian gov cannot do anything to Crimea while this civil war is going on. So why wouldn't Russia support these Freedom Fighters, it is no different to anything that the US, France, GB have done before. Only this time it is against their interest so they are acting all hypocritical about it. Also Iran Air Flight 655 shows how hypocritical Western media is acting.

In Conclusion Russia is doing the same things that most major countries have done.
#34 - I can't be the only one understanding the Russians in this ent…  [+] (38 new replies) 07/22/2014 on The Peacekeeper -30
User avatar #115 - neroiskill (07/22/2014) [-]
That's not the reason they took Crimea back.at all.
User avatar #144 - chrisel (23 hours ago) [-]
Oh look, that site is for sale.
User avatar #112 - durkadurka (07/22/2014) [-]
The thing about Crimea is that they already had agreements to station military forces there in the first place. That's why there were already so many Russian troops there.

What Russia is doing makes perfect sense: They've had puppet border states since the Soviet Union days.

The West doesn't like this for obvious reasons.

If you want to NOT repeat 1939, we should have stopped the Russians at Crimea. We know from experience that appeasement does not work.
User avatar #84 - zevran (07/22/2014) [-]
You're an idiot.

If people can't figure out the flaws in your argument by themselves they're idiots too.
User avatar #93 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I point you to my argument with abstractpink to let you know that no, I do not sympathise with the Russians, but I do empathise with them.

I only stated the most peaceful solution and to wait and see whether giving them Crimea is a way of having everyone happy on the long term, or whether it's delaying a possible bomb. As of now, we have no idea whether they mean to pull a 1939 Germany or just need Crimea.

Gotta love FJ hivemind and jumping to conclusions and calling people idiots out of the blue.
User avatar #102 - zevran (07/22/2014) [-]
Okay. Let me point out a few things to you.

In europe, no country has annexed part of another country by force since 1945. This is a ressult of the balance of power which has kept europe largely peaceful for the last 70 years.

One of the core principles of international law, and indeed one of the things keeping the entire world somewhat peaceful (you will note that no Great Powers have been at war since WW2, is that a country's territorial integrity is respected.

Thus, by breaching the territorial integrity of Ukraine (a major country with 40 million citizens, in europe) Russia has disturbed the global balance of power at its core, and made the world very uncertain. Especially for weak countries that borders it, which do not have NATO or EU protection.

If a country is allowed to bully and take what they want from its neighbours simply because they want to then the world become a very dangerous place indeed. What stops Germany from taking back East-Prussia from Poland for example? Would Poland be able to stop Germany? Of course not. But Germany would never do such a thing. They respect international law.

Russia do not even 'need' Crimea. Their Black Sea fleet could easily be moved to one of their other countless Black Sea ports. One could say their ports are not large enough. But if Putin can afford to build a new city for the Olympics he can construct a port for his Cold war era fleet as well.

The real reason Putin took Crimea was to punish the Ukrainians for not bending over a desk for him, to send a signal to other former Soviet union countries about what happens to those who defy him. Nations like Kazhakstan can't expect any EU support at all. It's thus a strong signal.

Also, the Russian economy is doing poorly. Putin wasn't as popular as he'd been, and he needs to have at least a pretense of democracy. So he saw a chance to win easy nationalistic points with his poorly educated population.

Running out of characters. I can't be bothered to write more.
User avatar #108 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I may have given notion of him needing spots to park his military fleet, this is however, not my main point of focus with my statements.

My main point of focus is that Russia needs Crimea for commercial needs more than anything else. Russia, although big, has little amount of ports to use for trade.

More as a sidenote than anything else: I want to make it absolutely clear that I do not support the Russians, hell I'm currently aiming to be a student officer and eventually officer for the Belgian army to help with military interventions with Russia if needed. (Although this is one of many reasons, I tell this last bit to avoid comments such as "you are naive" etc.)
User avatar #114 - zevran (07/22/2014) [-]
Russia has a great many ports. If it could do without Crimea for 50 + years it can do without now. If they really need a great commercial port they can construct one using their petroleum money, instead of investing it all in new millitary hardware.

As for an intervention in Russia. Won't happen. It's far too powerful for that, and they can veto any FN decision from the Security council.

The rebels are done for soon anyway. The Ukrainian army will have control over the area within at most a few months. Crimea will likely remain de-facto part of Russia, but part of Ukraine diplomatically in the eyes of most of the world.

All I'm saying is that it's dangerous to allow a country to breach international norm and law in the way Russia is allowed to do it. The US and NATO may stomp on the rights of some countries. But in the end they leave their territorial integrity alone.

I'm saying this as a Norwegian btw. We've got a border with Russia, and a few islands up north they claim they should possess....
User avatar #72 - everyziggy (07/22/2014) [-]
So nearly the entire eastern coastline of the Black Sea isn't enough space for them to dock their fleets?
User avatar #65 - turbodoosh (07/22/2014) [-]
Found the Russian
#48 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
Can I have your house? I could use somewhere to park my car.
#45 - dudeabcd (07/22/2014) [-]
I'm Belgian too, and I completely disagree with you.

Yes I can understand that Russia is feeling threatened by the expansion of Western influence in the former soviet states. But what Putin (basically it's him telling the Russians what to do and not the government) is doing is unjustifiable.

You say Europe can't leave one small spot to do their navy business, but you apparently forget that Russia is the biggest country on earth.

Germany was who attacked Poland in 1939, you can't blame just the allies for that.

Russia is isolating itself by continuing to support the Ukrainian rebels in the East. Some European countries did support the Maidan revolution but remember that that was peaceful until Yanukovitch sent snipers to shoot at the protesters.

Nobody here is innocent, but the reason the fighting didn't stop already is Russia.

This is why we need European cooperation. Because otherwise the small European countries are absolutely no match for larger ones. If we want to be able to decide our future ourselves we need to work together.
User avatar #63 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
Yes we need to co-operate, I understand. You have my full co-operation don't worry, I've signed up for the army for worst case scenario's, I'll fight the Russians if I have to. Don't think I support them. That's not the point of what I'm trying to tell, however.

I'm saying that we can at least make an effort to understand them and show a bit of empathy, not sympathy.

Russia needs Crimea as a way to the outside world for their commercial navy as much as their military, though it's more for the commercial one.

Biggest country on earth? Arguably if one were to compare with China, but that's not the point. Matter of fact is, Russia doesn't have all-year access to the outside world to do business. If they had Crimea like we have Antwerpen, things wouldn't be as tense.
#38 - abstractpink (07/22/2014) [-]
So it should be allowed to freely take parts of countries in case you need to park your military shit?
#89 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
when america does it ... its heroic ... when any other country does it ... its terrorism ....
User avatar #141 - zevran (23 hours ago) [-]
The US does not annex parts of other countries.
User avatar #83 - serotonin (07/22/2014) [-]
USA basically had Kosovo separated from Serbia to build Camp Bondsteel so...yeah.

And Crimea was part of Russia that was gifted to Ukraine on a whim of its president against constitution.
User avatar #85 - zevran (07/22/2014) [-]
Never mind that Kosovo came about as a ressult of a decade long civil war and in an attempt to stop genocides.

Crimea was annexed because Putin wanted to punish those naughty Ukrainians for not bending over and getting ass-raped by Russia.
#131 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
Or because they overthrew the government, created a terrorist state, and needed to be taught a lesson. Crimea was also part of Russia.

Russia is one of the only European countries not a puppet state of the EU, or part of it, so it's referred to as "evil"
User avatar #140 - zevran (23 hours ago) [-]
The goverment of Ukraine was overthrown. Fair enough. And it may not have been an entirely legal thing. But it's still a matter for Ukraine, and does not give Russia the right to annex part of an inderpendent country.

To call the regime in Ukraine a terrorist regime is simply wrong. More so now since there have been a democratic election.

No. Crimea was and is not part of Russia. The city of Savastopol was on lease to the Russian navy, but Crimea was still part of Ukraine, although it was a partly autonomus region within Ukraine. It was part of Russia and the Soviet union from 1783 to 1954 when it was transfered to Ukraine within the Soviet union.

That a region has been part of another country does not give the previous owner a valid claim to the area. Perhaps you think Great Britain would be within its rights to annex Ireland. Or perhaps the Netherlands should be granted Belgium as a province.

Russia isn't regarded as evil. But it is regarded as a bully which has no regards for international law. It throws its size and power around in a way that no other country does. Even China, the communist dictatorship and comming superpower respects international law. Russia does not, and it weakens itself and the stability of world peace by acting the way it does.

As for the EU. It serves a purpose. And it does not use millitary means in order to influence other countries. It is a "soft power", and it acts within the bounds of law and norm.
#80 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
They're already doing that. This is the exact same thing as what happened when Germany occupied part of what was then Czechoslovakia under the premise of "protecting ethnic Germans". The Russians have used the exact same excuse to justify their actions, verbatim, just replace "Germans" with "Russians".
#77 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
America does this all the time. So basically it is allowed, right?
#81 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
Last I checked the US hasn't annexed anybody in over half a century.
User avatar #43 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I don't think I've really explicitly said military. Crimea is a crucial part for the Russians to have a connection to the outside world.

That and if we look at history, Russia did fight with tooth and nail for Crimea only to have it be given away be some idiot. It is understandable that the Russians want it back.
After all, isn't that what we have done with the Jews and the Gaza region, etc.?
#116 - shadowgandalf (07/22/2014) [-]
Then Denmark should get back skåne, a huge chunck of northern Germany and the fucking entirety of Norway.
#44 - abstractpink (07/22/2014) [-]
Those are bad examples, especially Israel because we only did that out of pressure; the jews have no business there, nor do the Russians have business in Crimea; they can do fine with and without Crimea, and even if they really needed it, trying to inaved it is wrong.


Russia is an opressed country with no respect for other nations whatsoever, and they shouldn't be allowed to take anything.
User avatar #53 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
"only did that out of pressure" Hoh, the Russians aren't exactly in a state to relax either.

I find it terrible that Western media does everything they can to demonize the Russians.
I do not say that invading a country was particularly smart, or morally just, but you can at least take two steps back, look and then say "Oh... Yeah, I kind of understand what they're driving at, but try to talk it out a bit first."
#82 - devout feminist (07/22/2014) [-]
And you're saying Russian media doesn't demonize NATO? You must be new here.

Also, the logic you're using is what we call "appeasement". That worked just fine in the 1930s, right? In case you're really that fucking dense, it failed spectacularly, resulting in World War II.
User avatar #92 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
If you're going to argue with someone, do your best to at least see what they say. I said in a later post that the Russian media most likely demonizes the NATO as well, but when you look at this all, you can just make the analogy with two toddlers yelling really hard at each other.

Instead, we should be a bit more mature, let them have Crimea as it is clear they need it for their commerce and keep a very close eye on them. What happened in 1930 is completely ignoring what Germany was doing.
User avatar #105 - reginleif (07/22/2014) [-]
>What happened in 1930 is completely ignoring what Germany was doing.

It's not, this is a perfect example of what Putin is doing. Annexing territory under pretense of protecting their minorities in other countries isn't a baseless accusation this is literally what Hitler did.

Weak European response/ a general lack of fuck's to give for unimportant countries....

People like to cry Hitler, but here we have a textbook case of some madman taking over countries in order to fulfill his ambitions of past glory. Whether is be Reich or Union.

User avatar #111 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
I admit that there is a good possibility of Putin pulling a Hitler, but nonetheless, it's only a possibility. We are going to take a massive hit in the public relations department if we have it completely wrong.

That's not to say, we don't have to prepare for a possible military intervention, if not war.
War is entirely plausible. People in this comment section take me for some pro-Russian, which I am not. I'm only trying to tell people to NOT jump the gun. Wait and see and polish your rifles while you're at it, just on the safe side. Russia has more than enough excuses to do what they are doing.
User avatar #55 - abstractpink (07/22/2014) [-]
Just because they have a need for something doesn't mean their allowed to just take it; again that just shows typical Russian arrogance. They fucked up, made a horrible mistake, and they should never be allowed to even think about Crimea any longer, this isn't kindergarten, this is nations and politics, and Russia should not be treated like a special ed child. Crimea does not belong to them, Ukraine does not want to give it to them, too fucking bad.
User avatar #130 - dummerbaztard (07/22/2014) [-]
Damn you sound excatly like someone who aalways just watches some american mainstream news and hears "russia = bad" and immediately adapts the idea.

No one said Russia was allowed to do it, but it's like you dont even see how the USA does everything in its might to make Russia look as bad as possible.
User avatar #142 - abstractpink (23 hours ago) [-]
I am anti-American and anti-Russian, because I dislike both countries.
User avatar #60 - edgecutter (07/22/2014) [-]
It seems you are implying that I support the direct military actions by Russia.
So I will repeat, no, I do not think using military force here was the best of ideas, but honestly, I find it hard to blame them.

Also, there are separatists in Crimea, they want to join up with Russia, so what Ukraine wants is becoming increasingly irrelevant.

The Russians keep gaining excuses to justify their actions, and if Europe doesn't cut it's losses soon and stop giving Russia reasons to get angry, we will get ourselves in a situation that's going to be worse than the little skirmish in Ukraine.

Russia isn't a "special ed child"? Yeah, sure, fair enough. Doesn't mean we can afford to stop giving it special treatment. Is special treatment unfair? Fuck yes it is.
There is nothing we can really do about that, the world is already set up in an unfair way, and blatantly ignoring special cases just to be able to give equal treatment is childish and immensely stupid.

Now, I want to point out that you have stated "typical Russian arrogance". This, my fellow westerner, is the reason the West is flaring up against Russia. I wish to refrain from saying "conspiracy theory" but you can not deny that the media does it's best to demonize the Russians, resulting in mutual hatred created by the media, because I'm very certain Russian media does the same to instigate hatred towards us.

It is time to take two steps back and look at the entire picture.
The Russians have a lot of excuses, Crimea having been originally Russian being one of them.

Are they petty reasons? Yeah, but petty reasons is what exactly lead to World War 1 and therefore World War 2 as well.

It's not fun to give in, but if you are a pacifist, like many other westerners, it's time to just go "Yes Russia, take Crimea, but that's all you get. We'll keep a close eye on you" and I'm sure the Russians will just go "Alright, this is all we needed, thank you for your business" and that should be fine unless greed becomes prevalent.
User avatar #100 - avengeralpha (07/22/2014) [-]
Hey man good to see another person that can see the bigger picture the Russian gov really has nowhere to turn in search of safety almost all of Europe is in NATO and China while able to support Russia in the UN on certain topics can not be counted on in any real world situations due to their reliance on foreign business. When President Viktor Yanukovych was ousted Russia realized that the next leader of Ukraine would likely revoke their rights to house their fleet in Crimea. The Separatist groups in Crimea gave Russia the perfect way to.
1. avoid a war against Ukraine
2. Keep control of the black sea

Also the current state of civil war while not started by the Russians is the perfect smokescreen The Ukrainian gov cannot do anything to Crimea while this civil war is going on. So why wouldn't Russia support these Freedom Fighters, it is no different to anything that the US, France, GB have done before. Only this time it is against their interest so they are acting all hypocritical about it. Also Iran Air Flight 655 shows how hypocritical Western media is acting.

In Conclusion Russia is doing the same things that most major countries have done.
User avatar #35 - brobafett (07/22/2014) [-]
>inb4 "edgy teen [INSERT COUNTRY OF CHOICE HERE]

well, first of all your name doesn't help. secondly, the fact anyone who would argue with you is an edgy teen from [INSERT COUNTRY OF CHOICE HERE]
#39 - abstractpink (07/22/2014) [-]
#35 - I will admit to not having read every single title in your lis…  [+] (2 new replies) 07/22/2014 on please read all titles +2
#67 - rumbleseb (19 hours ago) [-]
God I love Nagi no Asukara! (Chisaki is best girl also)
User avatar #37 - imanarshole (07/22/2014) [-]
yeah i liked clannad but i didnt really find it all too feelsy i think angel beats killed my soul before i could watch clannad but thanks for that one
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User avatar #1 - soundofwinter (06/21/2014) [-]
fuck you
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