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crimhowler

Last status update:
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Gender: male
Age: 24
Date Signed Up:9/26/2011
Last Login:10/01/2016
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Highest Comment Rank:#2781
Comment Thumbs: 3104 total,  3344 ,  240
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Level 0 Content: Untouched account → Level 1 Content: New Here
Comment Level Progress: 28% (28/100)
Level 229 Comments: Mind Blower → Level 230 Comments: Ambassador Of Lulz
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Total Comments Made:1160
FJ Points:3035

latest user's comments

#32 - instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make th…  [+] (1 reply) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm +1
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#30 - No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on…  [+] (5 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm 0
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#28 - Huzzah, and understanding has been reached !!! Thank you for t…  [+] (7 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm 0
#29 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
We weren't ever arguing I thought, we just had different methods for a common goal. I guess I just wanna help, but my method is too steroided I suppose. I tend to go ham at anything I do. Ironically, I can't draw cartoons very well because I just keep adding detail aaaaaaaaand it's now the Sistine Chapel...
User avatar
#30 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on both sides, even if the two sides are on the same subject. It's good to hear others opinions, while still backing your own, so I shall respect your opinions. (while I can do realism, I prefer cartoon and stylized illustration, I find it more fun)
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#26 - So we can agree that to current society for artists is ****, a…  [+] (9 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm 0
#27 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It has always been shit. We can agree on this.
User avatar
#28 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Huzzah, and understanding has been reached !!! Thank you for the good debate, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, good sir
#29 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
We weren't ever arguing I thought, we just had different methods for a common goal. I guess I just wanna help, but my method is too steroided I suppose. I tend to go ham at anything I do. Ironically, I can't draw cartoons very well because I just keep adding detail aaaaaaaaand it's now the Sistine Chapel...
User avatar
#30 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on both sides, even if the two sides are on the same subject. It's good to hear others opinions, while still backing your own, so I shall respect your opinions. (while I can do realism, I prefer cartoon and stylized illustration, I find it more fun)
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#22 - true, but the past artists were treated with more respect and …  [+] (11 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm 0
#25 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I never learned anything in a school eaither, and I never said to start off with realism. It's all about references. Even if you're drawing stick figures, a real reference help so you know "oh damn, arms don't bend that way"
All my practice came from me doodling in class or at work. It's not like the artists you know today are all millionaires with 6 hours of free time painting nudes of models. And the quality of life was terrible for artists back then too. Half the time they didn't get discovered until they were dead or 70 years old.
User avatar
#26 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
So we can agree that to current society for artists is shit, and has made getting seriously into art difficult?
#27 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It has always been shit. We can agree on this.
User avatar
#28 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Huzzah, and understanding has been reached !!! Thank you for the good debate, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, good sir
#29 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
We weren't ever arguing I thought, we just had different methods for a common goal. I guess I just wanna help, but my method is too steroided I suppose. I tend to go ham at anything I do. Ironically, I can't draw cartoons very well because I just keep adding detail aaaaaaaaand it's now the Sistine Chapel...
User avatar
#30 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on both sides, even if the two sides are on the same subject. It's good to hear others opinions, while still backing your own, so I shall respect your opinions. (while I can do realism, I prefer cartoon and stylized illustration, I find it more fun)
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#20 - No it doesn't, and like I said before, I agree about the photo…  [+] (13 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm 0
#21 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It's not elitism. It's like watching someone dig a hole with a spoon, and when you suggest they use a shovel instead they're all "i just started digging I'll get a shovel later..."

Think about it, all the past amazing artists in the Renaissance or hustory didn't have drawing tutorials. They started with real life form and just practiced from there.
User avatar
#22 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
true, but the past artists were treated with more respect and had a better living than artists of today, as well as had apprenticeships under other artists (kind of why most renaissance artwork looks the same). Because we have so many things in our lives, many of us don't find the time for things like drawing, painting, or any other art form, so people tend to look at it only as a hobby rather than strive for a career. Hell, the most I got out of my art teachers was in college, all the art classes I took in highschool were useless, because the teachers there weren't even trying to do their jobs. And to a starting artist, just jumping into drawing realism is a daunting task. Many beginners just give up early on because of it. These are just to help beginners, to give them a starting point. Like trying to get around a city you've never been to without a map.
#25 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I never learned anything in a school eaither, and I never said to start off with realism. It's all about references. Even if you're drawing stick figures, a real reference help so you know "oh damn, arms don't bend that way"
All my practice came from me doodling in class or at work. It's not like the artists you know today are all millionaires with 6 hours of free time painting nudes of models. And the quality of life was terrible for artists back then too. Half the time they didn't get discovered until they were dead or 70 years old.
User avatar
#26 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
So we can agree that to current society for artists is shit, and has made getting seriously into art difficult?
#27 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It has always been shit. We can agree on this.
User avatar
#28 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Huzzah, and understanding has been reached !!! Thank you for the good debate, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, good sir
#29 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
We weren't ever arguing I thought, we just had different methods for a common goal. I guess I just wanna help, but my method is too steroided I suppose. I tend to go ham at anything I do. Ironically, I can't draw cartoons very well because I just keep adding detail aaaaaaaaand it's now the Sistine Chapel...
User avatar
#30 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on both sides, even if the two sides are on the same subject. It's good to hear others opinions, while still backing your own, so I shall respect your opinions. (while I can do realism, I prefer cartoon and stylized illustration, I find it more fun)
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#17 - Have you not been reading what I've been typing, I said that y…  [+] (15 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm 0
#19 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Because a chain is nothing like an arm, in behavior or appearance, except for the fact that it's connected. That's kinda my issue. But at this point I ceceed. I've seen throngs of people try to get better using drawing tutorials and referencing waterballoons, hams, peaches, etc. And they all plateau until they start using real form references. Anyway, people gonna do what they want. It doesn't hurt anyone I suppose
User avatar
#20 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No it doesn't, and like I said before, I agree about the photo references. To someone who is just still learning the basics, this is a great tool. To perfect their craft though, like you said, they will need to learn from photo references. I just didn't want to hear someone completely bashing something made to be helpful for beginners, because they are further ahead in their practice. It's elitism, and that annoys me.
#21 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It's not elitism. It's like watching someone dig a hole with a spoon, and when you suggest they use a shovel instead they're all "i just started digging I'll get a shovel later..."

Think about it, all the past amazing artists in the Renaissance or hustory didn't have drawing tutorials. They started with real life form and just practiced from there.
User avatar
#22 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
true, but the past artists were treated with more respect and had a better living than artists of today, as well as had apprenticeships under other artists (kind of why most renaissance artwork looks the same). Because we have so many things in our lives, many of us don't find the time for things like drawing, painting, or any other art form, so people tend to look at it only as a hobby rather than strive for a career. Hell, the most I got out of my art teachers was in college, all the art classes I took in highschool were useless, because the teachers there weren't even trying to do their jobs. And to a starting artist, just jumping into drawing realism is a daunting task. Many beginners just give up early on because of it. These are just to help beginners, to give them a starting point. Like trying to get around a city you've never been to without a map.
#25 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I never learned anything in a school eaither, and I never said to start off with realism. It's all about references. Even if you're drawing stick figures, a real reference help so you know "oh damn, arms don't bend that way"
All my practice came from me doodling in class or at work. It's not like the artists you know today are all millionaires with 6 hours of free time painting nudes of models. And the quality of life was terrible for artists back then too. Half the time they didn't get discovered until they were dead or 70 years old.
User avatar
#26 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
So we can agree that to current society for artists is shit, and has made getting seriously into art difficult?
#27 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It has always been shit. We can agree on this.
User avatar
#28 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Huzzah, and understanding has been reached !!! Thank you for the good debate, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, good sir
#29 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
We weren't ever arguing I thought, we just had different methods for a common goal. I guess I just wanna help, but my method is too steroided I suppose. I tend to go ham at anything I do. Ironically, I can't draw cartoons very well because I just keep adding detail aaaaaaaaand it's now the Sistine Chapel...
User avatar
#30 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on both sides, even if the two sides are on the same subject. It's good to hear others opinions, while still backing your own, so I shall respect your opinions. (while I can do realism, I prefer cartoon and stylized illustration, I find it more fun)
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#13 - like I said, I understand that. If you are drawing something s…  [+] (30 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm +4
#14 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Youre still not getting what I'm saying. Using someone else's drawing isn't going to help you in the long run. Having a real reference doesn't mean you have to draw every little detail. Humans are programmed to simplify things anyway. So if you're looking at a real human arm, odds are the average Joe is gonna draw 3 lines to represent the bicep, forearm, and hand. Same goes for arm ace. Two dots and a curved line for the mouth. If the reference you're using already has little to no detail it doesn't give you full understanding of what you're drawing. So youre simplifying an already simplified form. It becomes watered down and doesn't look right.
#41 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Using another artist's drawing as reference is one of the best things you can do. Drawing from reality is also good, but other artists who are more skilled are making anatomy DECISIONS, they are basing the anatomy off of the real world, but manipulating it to be the most visually appealing it can be. It's really one of the best forms of practice. Talk to any artist who's successful (illustrative art, not modern art) and they will tell you to work from reference. Real life, paintings, drawings, sculptures, all of them. I work as a concept artist, and not a single person I know draws straight from real life.

Look at sketches and drawing's from the renaissance. They make some good observations. all of which stem from real life. Then for the next 600 years people built on those observations and created their own techniques, building on the techniques from artists they admire. Sure I could look at real life and eventually I MIGHT get pretty good. How long is it going to take me to figure out contrapposto for a figure at rest though? It took 1000 fucking years for artists to figure it out after the fall of the roman empire.

No, not everybody needs to go to an art school to get good at drawing. Not everybody is going to paint fine art 6 hour paintings. As a concept artist, I'll tell you from experience, you have to draw a damn good figure in sometimes less than 30 minutes. There is no right or wrong way to do or learn art. However if you don't use reference from artists you admire, or want your work to look like, your missing a huge opportunity.
#46 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
And people were a little busy dying from plague to worry about art. It was called the dark ages. And when people stopped dying thry had time to paint, and it was called the Renaissance
#45 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Oh gee if only I went to a college before to learn about techniques... Oh eait, Ringling College of Art and Design, I majored in animation.

You draw naked people everyday. How do you master anatomy? You practice it. You look at it. You keep looking at it it. Eventually it's ingrained in your head to where you can visualise any pose you need because you've probably seen and drawn it before when you had a reference. You learn how fat, bones, and weight behaves.

Wanna learn how a waterballoon behaves? Look at a waterbaloon. You wouldn't use boobs as a reference on how to draw waterballoons now would you?

I saw everyone's art skyrocket within 3 weeks of drawing from life instead of drawing from their head. Even without a reference their quality of art was noticeably better. If you only use drawn guides, you're already putting a ceiling on yourself and your ability.
#48 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Did you even read what I said? I actually explicitly stated that people don't need to go to school to learn art. Where did I say that you never went to school? Where did I say to draw from your head? I also wouldn't recommend using guides exclusively. I would recommend using different techniques that other artists use, and eventually build your own techniques based on that. How would you draw a torso? My technique is to draw two equal sized boxes in 2 point perspective and add anatomy and gesture on top of those in order to get better proportions. Who would think to look at boxes for the torso? It's a completely organic shape. Bridgman, Loomis, Hogarth. Do I always use them as reference? No, I can build my own poses. However it is never a bad idea to practice from reference. I never stop drawing from other artists as reference.

Pic is an anaotomy study I was just doing yesterday, based on sculptural reference. I drew in the boxes on the bottom quick to demonstrate how I begin the torso. This isn't a technique I solely created, it is one that I observed, and can use to create quicker anatomy. On the right is a sketch by none other that Raphael, of what? Another artist's work.

Using drawing guides and never venturing out of those boundaries is bad. Using other artists for reference is very good.

Side note, the black plague didn't last through the entirety of Medieval times, nor did affect every country. Also Christian monks and other cultures were still doing art throughout the Medieval and Dark Ages.
#50 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Lol and why censor the booty? Tushies are internet safe aren't thry
#52 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
I don't know if it's allowed or not. Figured I wouldn't risk it, even though it is a delicious rendering of David's ass. No homo.
#55 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I like the Michaelangelo portrail of him best. The first one weirded me out because they really depicted him as what he was, a 14 year boy and it was made of bronze. I don't like the shiny or naked kids
#49 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
>where did I say to draw from your head?
"I work as a concept artist, and not a single person I know draws straight from real life."

You know how people learn to not need a reference every time they draw? They stockpiled 1000+ past references in their brain.
You learn to make decisions from constant practice to where you just eventually know and you can draw a human form in seconds without needing guidelines, boxes, or a guide.
30 second sequential forms, live model.

Guides are fine if you wanna learn to draw a specific something in a specific way. You can branch on your own eventually, but I got sick of seeing so many potential artists just constantly referencing "how to draw animu eyes" and nonsense of the like.
#51 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Okay. I'll admit I worded that poorly. However I still never said to only draw from your head. I meant that nobody I know draws exclusively from life. They draw from other artists, sculptures, real life, their heads, all of it.

Yes, I do know how to learn not to need reference every time I draw since I do it every day. I know how to not need a guide for everything, again I do it every day. If I want to get a really good gesture drawing, I won't use the boxes immediately. If you're telling me that you can draw a perfect human figure with perfect anatomy and proportions without any sort of light base (boxes, wire-frame/ stick-figure etc.) then I'll tell you that you're wrong, and your figure probably has a lot of flaws in it if you don't have a base. 30 second drawings are great for practice in gesture, not anatomy. You need to combine both for a truly great figure study.

Also in regards to your last comment about anime style. I couldn't agree more. You absolutely need to have the foundations. Be able to draw realistically, then transfer those fundamentals into another style like Disney Cartoons or Anime.
#53 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
My friend, Asian of course, she's the queen of figure drawing. She does like 4 strokes of a dharcoal, I shit you not, and she has a sexy shaded woman drawn out.

And the figure drawing is about anatomy too. You eventually learn bone placement, foreshortening, musculature, because you see it so often it just becomes habit.

And yeah my main greif if guides is people take them too literal or they stick to them too long.

Pic is an anatomy layout we had to do after 15 minute figure sketch.
It's just me personally, though, i feel guides more often than not do more harm than help. Stuff like "draw a circle, layout guidelines" and whatnot is fine to an extent, but then people forget how flawed and not anatomically perfect bodies are. I saw maybe... 1 guy who had a perfect Vertruvian Man body. Others had stumpy legs, narrow shoulders, tiny feet, etc. All those funky bodies are a lesson on basics, and added to a mental photostock of references when drawing.
My friend, bless her heart, still stuck in anime phase, 4 years after highschool. She draws great anime style, and.. that's about it..
#57 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Very nice. I see what you mean about taking the guides too literally. I also try to avoid that, as you can see in the anatomy drawing I posted, the boxes were pretty light, and I only used them to set up basic proportions. I try to add more interesting contours to the silhouette to make the anatomy read better. I think we're pretty much on the same page on this subject, it's just that I tend to disagree with the initial statement that using someone else's drawings in the long run won't be helpful. I guess it all just depends on exactly HOW you use the drawings though. If you simply copy it without making any of your own observations and techniques, then you're right, it won't be helpful at all.
User avatar
#17 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Have you not been reading what I've been typing, I said that you were right about form, I never argued that. I was sawing it helps to learn the dynamics. The flow of the form, not just the form. How does one part of the arm sit compared to the for arm? Look at the chain. the muscular mass of the for arm and shoulder flow in the same direction, but the bicep and hand don't. How can it be so hard to understand when the reference is even colour coded?
#19 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Because a chain is nothing like an arm, in behavior or appearance, except for the fact that it's connected. That's kinda my issue. But at this point I ceceed. I've seen throngs of people try to get better using drawing tutorials and referencing waterballoons, hams, peaches, etc. And they all plateau until they start using real form references. Anyway, people gonna do what they want. It doesn't hurt anyone I suppose
User avatar
#20 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No it doesn't, and like I said before, I agree about the photo references. To someone who is just still learning the basics, this is a great tool. To perfect their craft though, like you said, they will need to learn from photo references. I just didn't want to hear someone completely bashing something made to be helpful for beginners, because they are further ahead in their practice. It's elitism, and that annoys me.
#21 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It's not elitism. It's like watching someone dig a hole with a spoon, and when you suggest they use a shovel instead they're all "i just started digging I'll get a shovel later..."

Think about it, all the past amazing artists in the Renaissance or hustory didn't have drawing tutorials. They started with real life form and just practiced from there.
User avatar
#22 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
true, but the past artists were treated with more respect and had a better living than artists of today, as well as had apprenticeships under other artists (kind of why most renaissance artwork looks the same). Because we have so many things in our lives, many of us don't find the time for things like drawing, painting, or any other art form, so people tend to look at it only as a hobby rather than strive for a career. Hell, the most I got out of my art teachers was in college, all the art classes I took in highschool were useless, because the teachers there weren't even trying to do their jobs. And to a starting artist, just jumping into drawing realism is a daunting task. Many beginners just give up early on because of it. These are just to help beginners, to give them a starting point. Like trying to get around a city you've never been to without a map.
#25 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I never learned anything in a school eaither, and I never said to start off with realism. It's all about references. Even if you're drawing stick figures, a real reference help so you know "oh damn, arms don't bend that way"
All my practice came from me doodling in class or at work. It's not like the artists you know today are all millionaires with 6 hours of free time painting nudes of models. And the quality of life was terrible for artists back then too. Half the time they didn't get discovered until they were dead or 70 years old.
User avatar
#26 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
So we can agree that to current society for artists is shit, and has made getting seriously into art difficult?
#27 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It has always been shit. We can agree on this.
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#28 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Huzzah, and understanding has been reached !!! Thank you for the good debate, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, good sir
#29 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
We weren't ever arguing I thought, we just had different methods for a common goal. I guess I just wanna help, but my method is too steroided I suppose. I tend to go ham at anything I do. Ironically, I can't draw cartoons very well because I just keep adding detail aaaaaaaaand it's now the Sistine Chapel...
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#30 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on both sides, even if the two sides are on the same subject. It's good to hear others opinions, while still backing your own, so I shall respect your opinions. (while I can do realism, I prefer cartoon and stylized illustration, I find it more fun)
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#15 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
*a face
User avatar
#18 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Don't worry, I'm not gonna give two shits about typos on the internet
#11 - I understand that, but it's not the point. If you don't unders…  [+] (32 replies) 03/09/2016 on Chain arm +19
#12 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
What I'm saying is using a peach reference to draw butts isn't going to make you better at drawing butts. Just butts that look like peachea.

Same goes for waterballoon tits. You can draw boobies, but they're gonna look like waterballoons. It limits your ability. Because tiny boobs don't behave like waterballoons, nor do massive ones. Or fake ones.

Just... Google boobs. It's not hard. I don't have a dick, but I can Google all the penis I want to learn how to draw one. I'm not gonna use a mushroom as a refernence.
Pic related. Using real life references helps your drawing. No amount of "face tutorials" will do. Any artist will agree that real life is thr only way to get maximum learning.
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#13 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
like I said, I understand that. If you are drawing something straight from reality, a simple picture reference is perfect. But learning the dynamics of anatomy rather than just learning it's basic form makes drawing something from your head easier. If you are not using a realistic art style, but still want to capture the essence of movement, practice dynamics. If your character, creature, or whatever else you are drawing doesn't exist, learn the dynamics. It's one thing to just draw a picture from a photo like a human photocopier, but these comparative references help to give your artwork more freedom.
#14 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Youre still not getting what I'm saying. Using someone else's drawing isn't going to help you in the long run. Having a real reference doesn't mean you have to draw every little detail. Humans are programmed to simplify things anyway. So if you're looking at a real human arm, odds are the average Joe is gonna draw 3 lines to represent the bicep, forearm, and hand. Same goes for arm ace. Two dots and a curved line for the mouth. If the reference you're using already has little to no detail it doesn't give you full understanding of what you're drawing. So youre simplifying an already simplified form. It becomes watered down and doesn't look right.
#41 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Using another artist's drawing as reference is one of the best things you can do. Drawing from reality is also good, but other artists who are more skilled are making anatomy DECISIONS, they are basing the anatomy off of the real world, but manipulating it to be the most visually appealing it can be. It's really one of the best forms of practice. Talk to any artist who's successful (illustrative art, not modern art) and they will tell you to work from reference. Real life, paintings, drawings, sculptures, all of them. I work as a concept artist, and not a single person I know draws straight from real life.

Look at sketches and drawing's from the renaissance. They make some good observations. all of which stem from real life. Then for the next 600 years people built on those observations and created their own techniques, building on the techniques from artists they admire. Sure I could look at real life and eventually I MIGHT get pretty good. How long is it going to take me to figure out contrapposto for a figure at rest though? It took 1000 fucking years for artists to figure it out after the fall of the roman empire.

No, not everybody needs to go to an art school to get good at drawing. Not everybody is going to paint fine art 6 hour paintings. As a concept artist, I'll tell you from experience, you have to draw a damn good figure in sometimes less than 30 minutes. There is no right or wrong way to do or learn art. However if you don't use reference from artists you admire, or want your work to look like, your missing a huge opportunity.
#46 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
And people were a little busy dying from plague to worry about art. It was called the dark ages. And when people stopped dying thry had time to paint, and it was called the Renaissance
#45 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Oh gee if only I went to a college before to learn about techniques... Oh eait, Ringling College of Art and Design, I majored in animation.

You draw naked people everyday. How do you master anatomy? You practice it. You look at it. You keep looking at it it. Eventually it's ingrained in your head to where you can visualise any pose you need because you've probably seen and drawn it before when you had a reference. You learn how fat, bones, and weight behaves.

Wanna learn how a waterballoon behaves? Look at a waterbaloon. You wouldn't use boobs as a reference on how to draw waterballoons now would you?

I saw everyone's art skyrocket within 3 weeks of drawing from life instead of drawing from their head. Even without a reference their quality of art was noticeably better. If you only use drawn guides, you're already putting a ceiling on yourself and your ability.
#48 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Did you even read what I said? I actually explicitly stated that people don't need to go to school to learn art. Where did I say that you never went to school? Where did I say to draw from your head? I also wouldn't recommend using guides exclusively. I would recommend using different techniques that other artists use, and eventually build your own techniques based on that. How would you draw a torso? My technique is to draw two equal sized boxes in 2 point perspective and add anatomy and gesture on top of those in order to get better proportions. Who would think to look at boxes for the torso? It's a completely organic shape. Bridgman, Loomis, Hogarth. Do I always use them as reference? No, I can build my own poses. However it is never a bad idea to practice from reference. I never stop drawing from other artists as reference.

Pic is an anaotomy study I was just doing yesterday, based on sculptural reference. I drew in the boxes on the bottom quick to demonstrate how I begin the torso. This isn't a technique I solely created, it is one that I observed, and can use to create quicker anatomy. On the right is a sketch by none other that Raphael, of what? Another artist's work.

Using drawing guides and never venturing out of those boundaries is bad. Using other artists for reference is very good.

Side note, the black plague didn't last through the entirety of Medieval times, nor did affect every country. Also Christian monks and other cultures were still doing art throughout the Medieval and Dark Ages.
#50 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Lol and why censor the booty? Tushies are internet safe aren't thry
#52 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
I don't know if it's allowed or not. Figured I wouldn't risk it, even though it is a delicious rendering of David's ass. No homo.
#55 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I like the Michaelangelo portrail of him best. The first one weirded me out because they really depicted him as what he was, a 14 year boy and it was made of bronze. I don't like the shiny or naked kids
#49 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
>where did I say to draw from your head?
"I work as a concept artist, and not a single person I know draws straight from real life."

You know how people learn to not need a reference every time they draw? They stockpiled 1000+ past references in their brain.
You learn to make decisions from constant practice to where you just eventually know and you can draw a human form in seconds without needing guidelines, boxes, or a guide.
30 second sequential forms, live model.

Guides are fine if you wanna learn to draw a specific something in a specific way. You can branch on your own eventually, but I got sick of seeing so many potential artists just constantly referencing "how to draw animu eyes" and nonsense of the like.
#51 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Okay. I'll admit I worded that poorly. However I still never said to only draw from your head. I meant that nobody I know draws exclusively from life. They draw from other artists, sculptures, real life, their heads, all of it.

Yes, I do know how to learn not to need reference every time I draw since I do it every day. I know how to not need a guide for everything, again I do it every day. If I want to get a really good gesture drawing, I won't use the boxes immediately. If you're telling me that you can draw a perfect human figure with perfect anatomy and proportions without any sort of light base (boxes, wire-frame/ stick-figure etc.) then I'll tell you that you're wrong, and your figure probably has a lot of flaws in it if you don't have a base. 30 second drawings are great for practice in gesture, not anatomy. You need to combine both for a truly great figure study.

Also in regards to your last comment about anime style. I couldn't agree more. You absolutely need to have the foundations. Be able to draw realistically, then transfer those fundamentals into another style like Disney Cartoons or Anime.
#53 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
My friend, Asian of course, she's the queen of figure drawing. She does like 4 strokes of a dharcoal, I shit you not, and she has a sexy shaded woman drawn out.

And the figure drawing is about anatomy too. You eventually learn bone placement, foreshortening, musculature, because you see it so often it just becomes habit.

And yeah my main greif if guides is people take them too literal or they stick to them too long.

Pic is an anatomy layout we had to do after 15 minute figure sketch.
It's just me personally, though, i feel guides more often than not do more harm than help. Stuff like "draw a circle, layout guidelines" and whatnot is fine to an extent, but then people forget how flawed and not anatomically perfect bodies are. I saw maybe... 1 guy who had a perfect Vertruvian Man body. Others had stumpy legs, narrow shoulders, tiny feet, etc. All those funky bodies are a lesson on basics, and added to a mental photostock of references when drawing.
My friend, bless her heart, still stuck in anime phase, 4 years after highschool. She draws great anime style, and.. that's about it..
#57 - mrmanhattan (03/09/2016) [-]
Very nice. I see what you mean about taking the guides too literally. I also try to avoid that, as you can see in the anatomy drawing I posted, the boxes were pretty light, and I only used them to set up basic proportions. I try to add more interesting contours to the silhouette to make the anatomy read better. I think we're pretty much on the same page on this subject, it's just that I tend to disagree with the initial statement that using someone else's drawings in the long run won't be helpful. I guess it all just depends on exactly HOW you use the drawings though. If you simply copy it without making any of your own observations and techniques, then you're right, it won't be helpful at all.
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#17 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Have you not been reading what I've been typing, I said that you were right about form, I never argued that. I was sawing it helps to learn the dynamics. The flow of the form, not just the form. How does one part of the arm sit compared to the for arm? Look at the chain. the muscular mass of the for arm and shoulder flow in the same direction, but the bicep and hand don't. How can it be so hard to understand when the reference is even colour coded?
#19 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Because a chain is nothing like an arm, in behavior or appearance, except for the fact that it's connected. That's kinda my issue. But at this point I ceceed. I've seen throngs of people try to get better using drawing tutorials and referencing waterballoons, hams, peaches, etc. And they all plateau until they start using real form references. Anyway, people gonna do what they want. It doesn't hurt anyone I suppose
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#20 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No it doesn't, and like I said before, I agree about the photo references. To someone who is just still learning the basics, this is a great tool. To perfect their craft though, like you said, they will need to learn from photo references. I just didn't want to hear someone completely bashing something made to be helpful for beginners, because they are further ahead in their practice. It's elitism, and that annoys me.
#21 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It's not elitism. It's like watching someone dig a hole with a spoon, and when you suggest they use a shovel instead they're all "i just started digging I'll get a shovel later..."

Think about it, all the past amazing artists in the Renaissance or hustory didn't have drawing tutorials. They started with real life form and just practiced from there.
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#22 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
true, but the past artists were treated with more respect and had a better living than artists of today, as well as had apprenticeships under other artists (kind of why most renaissance artwork looks the same). Because we have so many things in our lives, many of us don't find the time for things like drawing, painting, or any other art form, so people tend to look at it only as a hobby rather than strive for a career. Hell, the most I got out of my art teachers was in college, all the art classes I took in highschool were useless, because the teachers there weren't even trying to do their jobs. And to a starting artist, just jumping into drawing realism is a daunting task. Many beginners just give up early on because of it. These are just to help beginners, to give them a starting point. Like trying to get around a city you've never been to without a map.
#25 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I never learned anything in a school eaither, and I never said to start off with realism. It's all about references. Even if you're drawing stick figures, a real reference help so you know "oh damn, arms don't bend that way"
All my practice came from me doodling in class or at work. It's not like the artists you know today are all millionaires with 6 hours of free time painting nudes of models. And the quality of life was terrible for artists back then too. Half the time they didn't get discovered until they were dead or 70 years old.
User avatar
#26 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
So we can agree that to current society for artists is shit, and has made getting seriously into art difficult?
#27 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
It has always been shit. We can agree on this.
User avatar
#28 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Huzzah, and understanding has been reached !!! Thank you for the good debate, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day, good sir
#29 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
We weren't ever arguing I thought, we just had different methods for a common goal. I guess I just wanna help, but my method is too steroided I suppose. I tend to go ham at anything I do. Ironically, I can't draw cartoons very well because I just keep adding detail aaaaaaaaand it's now the Sistine Chapel...
User avatar
#30 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
No worries man. And that's what a debate is, arguing points on both sides, even if the two sides are on the same subject. It's good to hear others opinions, while still backing your own, so I shall respect your opinions. (while I can do realism, I prefer cartoon and stylized illustration, I find it more fun)
#31 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
I tried learning cartoons but I always just end up putting too much work into it. I don't know how to stop. This is my "cartoon" style. Like.. that's as simple as I can go. I can't stop myself from adding detail. sendhelpplz
User avatar
#34 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
I actually like that cat jester. Detail is never a bad thing
#35 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
That's my cat Little Shit, she's quite a goofball. I'm doing a pet series. If you got a creature send me a pic, I've already drawn my 3 cats.
#32 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
instead of cartooning, just try stylized illustration. make the lines of your work thicker or thinner in areas to accent the piece.

<--- This one's mine
#33 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
Yeah I've tried doing that I this one. I make some lines thicker to add emphasis and then i... got carried away again and started cross hatching the entire thing...fuck

sweet creature btw. Nice nightmare fuel
#15 - msamnesia (03/09/2016) [-]
*a face
User avatar
#18 - crimhowler (03/09/2016) [-]
Don't worry, I'm not gonna give two shits about typos on the internet