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bonnierock

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Date Signed Up:4/30/2012
Last Login:3/02/2015
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Content Ranking:#5389
Comment Ranking:#36214
Highest Content Rank:#1969
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Content Views:89924
Times Content Favorited:61 times
Total Comments Made:1003
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latest user's comments

#19 - Picture 02/26/2015 on Row Row, Praise da Powah 0
#22 - Picture 02/21/2015 on Animation errors in Brave +1
#10 - 4 spiders 25+ tropical fish 2 gerbils 1 cat and 7 dogs later t… 02/20/2015 on Dogs are great +1
#20 - did you clink any of the other links or did you go straight to…  [+] (3 new replies) 02/03/2015 on Rekt -5
#106 - carrotpotato (02/03/2015) [-]
This particular comment was a victim of a bandwagon. IMO vaccines have more pros than cons but they do have their cons too but seriously ncbi is as credible site as it fucking gets. And to be honest I was kind of surprised that you found so many articles claiming vaccine induced shit from there. Although those thinga are still less shitty than the world would be right now if vaccines were never invented. I'll just thumb up all your posts you've made to try and make better this injustice that happenee here. You had a different opinion from the masses but you brought it up well and actually backed it up with proper links unlike any of the assholes thumbing you down here. Well done although you probably shoudl read on herd immunity.
#29 - popeflatus (02/03/2015) [-]
Don't you love how smallpox and polio aren't things anymore? I wonder how that happened.
#23 - samoaspider (02/03/2015) [-]
I don't have to eat the whole egg to realize its rotten.
#13 - yeah i suppose my point would be simply that vaccines are not …  [+] (4 new replies) 02/03/2015 on Rekt -8
User avatar #102 - pseudobro (02/03/2015) [-]
You are ignorant if you believe that the side effects of medicine (such as vaccines) is not being studied thoroughly, constantly, and repeatedly. The reason vaccines are used is because the benefits (a well-vaccinated population will resist the diseases they are vaccinated against, to the degree that these diseases can be eradicated) massively outweigh the harms (some small fraction of patients vaccinated develop a harmful reaction to the vaccine, some small fraction of those patients die or suffer permanent injury).

Vaccines are designed to work on a population and have never been, and in fact cannot be, 100% effective at preventing disease in individuals. Those who cannot take vaccines are protected by those who can and do.

I acknowledge that there can be terrible side-effects of vaccines. This is true for all medicine. What we need to do is look at the big picture and try to maximize benefit while minimizing harm, and telling people not to take vaccines because it might do something bad, or because of their strange-sounding ingredients, is going to cause massive harm and zero benefit.

So, bottom line: make your comp. But unless your research reveals something truly groundbreaking, don't advise against vaccines for the general population. More than 200 years of world-wide medical and scientific research venerates their continued practice.
User avatar #119 - pseudobro (02/03/2015) [-]
PS: I should say that all potential effects of medicines are being studied, not just side-effects. If it's not being studied, then it's not medicine.
User avatar #15 - TheBearerOfBadNews (02/03/2015) [-]
I have to agree with freedomii. The cases you have pointed account for a tiny fraction of people given vaccines. all medicines carry potential side effects. Some worse than others. Aspirin, for example, can cause catastrophic gastrointestinal bleeding which can kill you. Yet people take aspirin everyday. These individual cases are unfortunate and sad but should not detract from the fact that on the whole vaccines do a great deal more good than harm. we roll the dice everyday with more risky behaviours (driving, drinking, etc) than vaccines.
#14 - freedomiii (02/03/2015) [-]
I would support such a comp. Just remember that science isn't about looking at one set of data. Cherry-picking results that confirm something while ignoring data that doesn't (in significant numbers) won't do lead to truth. Put the data in context. What's the percentage of patience that get vaccines that experience significant side affects? Is there an actual trend? etc, etc, etc.
#10 - OK so links to neurodevelopmental disorders and Thimerosal yes…  [+] (44 new replies) 02/03/2015 on Rekt -165
#248 - lastweek (02/04/2015) [-]
User avatar #231 - Mortuus (02/04/2015) [-]
You stupid cunts don't even understand what Thimerosal is. You consume more mercury from FISH than you do from vaccinations, and we don't even use thimerosal in infantile vaccinations anymore. Hell, we don't even use it in most adult vaccinations, but even those are in such low doses that there's no fucking effects.

I hope you fuckers all catch Smallpox at once. Don't worry, though; because at least you won't be feeding the big pharmaceutical companies that want to kill you and steal all of your money.

You people are more retarded than the people that thimerosal apparently affected.

You're retarded for justifying the non-use of vaccinations, in short.
#228 - euouae (02/04/2015) [-]
#219 - anonexplains (02/04/2015) [-]
#216 - tunotoo (02/04/2015) [-]
User avatar #183 - brenton (02/04/2015) [-]
stahp
User avatar #181 - dtcdannyboy (02/04/2015) [-]
Presents funnyjunk with facts. Gets red thumbed to death. Keep doing what you are told guys, you are really good at it.
User avatar #233 - magicmatchsticks (02/04/2015) [-]
While some of them are technically true, it's still fucking retarded. People are killed more by being struck by falling coconuts than by vaccine-related complications, and then you talk about things like automotive injuries that killed 33,000 people in the U.S. alone in 2012, a figure that has since risen.

Are you going to stop driving? Because driving is more dangerous than the possible and extremely rare complications of vaccines, by, like, a factor of more than a thousand.
User avatar #179 - foamytesquirrel (02/04/2015) [-]
Also, a link to how vaccines cause autism.
www.howdovaccinescauseautism.com
User avatar #156 - nigeltheoutlaw (02/03/2015) [-]
I remember you. Your argument isn't any better since the last time I saw it.
#147 - anonexplains (02/03/2015) [-]
Read first article about the girl; the whole thing not just the abstract. At the very most there is a weak argument made for her issues being directly related to the vaccination; it's more likely just coincidence though. The two month period that it took for symptoms to start showing is longer than the 6weeks used to determine a relation. The girl had a host of issues unrelated to the vaccine including Raynaud's disease and undifferentiated connective tissues. In short, this article proves nothing about vaccinations and is mostly "look at this interesting thing" and not trying to prove anything.

All that sums up to "your source is shit"

As for the first source on the thimerosol. They use a very shrot time span and assess their "trends" by using trend lines, which have fit values of 0.28 for the downward trend (that's so weak that it is statistically insignificant). In short their "finds" are based on statistical hopefulness and incorrect data manipulation. That is not science, that is garbage.


Get the fuck out of here asshat.
#111 - anonexplains (02/03/2015) [-]
Those are statistical anomalies. Maybe you're not afraid of getting measles, but imagine it spreading to 500 people? Because you know, these diseases spread and they spread to people that can't get vaccinated. You are a hazard to others.

Please construct your sentences better; it's really hard to read.
User avatar #76 - battledude (02/03/2015) [-]
guys someone got hurt by a vaccine let's never use them again

guys someone got struck by lightning, lets never go outside again
#75 - anonexplains (02/03/2015) [-]
>Concise and logical argument backed by multiple credible sources
>better thumb down and give purely anecdotal replies

Fuck off, FJ. All of you.
User avatar #79 - taihentayau (02/03/2015) [-]
>as if the citations actually even say vaccines are bad (hint hint- they don't)

Oh boy
User avatar #73 - ChewyConor (02/03/2015) [-]
I appreciate that you recognise your own bias, that's admirable and you don't deserve the hundred or so red thumbs you've gotten for your views.
That being said, you surely cannot believe that vaccines don't work. The only places where polio still exists in the world for example are the places that vaccine distributors haven't been able to reach for reasons primarily of war or remoteness. That is an undeniable fact.

Medicine isn't always an exact science and of course people respond differently to things. Of course some vaccines are less effective and some have worse side-effects than others. The same is true of any and almost all medications for almost all ailments. It is also true that in some circumstances if you crash your car, your life can be saved by not wearing your seatbelt. You should still always play the odds. Vaccines are much more likely to save your life or prevent horrible effects than cause them or kill you.

It is fundamentally absurd to think that you know better than the millions of medical professionals out there, of which almost none would agree that it's better for people not to get vaccinated (with the known exception of those people with certain medical conditions).
Regular people don't understand medical science, so when a story goes viral about something being dangerous people panic, people draw causal conclusions from coincidences, and people straight up make shit up just to be the person who gets to make a statement.

There are similar viral breaks that happen every few years, e.g. ultrasound scans harm unborn babies, x-food product causes cancer, vaccines cause autism, etc.

Going back to the playing the odds game, if you have to make 100 guesses about which letter is drawn from a box A or B, knowing that there are 90 As and 10 Bs to choose from, it's always better to choose A 100 times (90 correct) than choosing A 90 times (81 correct) and B 10 times (1 correct).

While a vaccine might cause a problem and maybe you have a higher chance than normal, you have to believe that there is now MORE chance that the vaccine will harm you than there is that is will help you. Not only that, you have to weight that choice by the severity; i.e. if there's a 49% chance it'll save your life and 51% chance it'll give you a rash, you should still take it.
It obviously gets a lot more complicated than that but sit down and estimate the probabilities in your own mind. How many people get problems from a vaccine? How much more susceptible than that do you perceive yourself to be? How many lives/severe illnesses does it save/prevent? and finally how many people could you severely harm by transmitting it if you were not vaccinated? What are those chances?

Nearly every time the odds will come up clearly in favour of vaccination.
User avatar #64 - taihentayau (02/03/2015) [-]
Alright kids it's time to school a motherfucker, pay attention, if you want to speak science you shall receive.

The particular girl you have mentioned was a very high profile case that was thoroughly inspected. The bilateral vision damage she received was the seventh case recorded medically, out of all those who received the vaccination she did. The reaction. These cases are not just rare, they are so few and far in between that the medical economy impact is frankly negligible. If I vaccinated my kid and they developed POTS or systemic lupus of course I'd be pissed but the responsibility and benefits are all in the name and title of medical economy, if my kid got fucked up by some jackass' child who wasn't vaccinated, where is the good at all? Of the two evils (if one is even evil at all) what would you pick?

The paper by Souayah et al. is a pretty logical one- it is thanks to this and many others that Thimerosal was removed from vaccinations (oh look, it's not a conspiracy, people are actually trying to improve an already functioning medication? Who'da thought)

The supposed report of measles in vaccinated communities was an interesting case for sure, they weren't necessarily speculating that vaccination failed to work nor were they attributing vaccination to any evils/wrongdoings: "Exposure to the MMR vaccine was unlikely to be associated with autism, asthma, leukaemia, hay fever, type 1 diabetes, gait disturbance, Crohn's disease, demyelinating diseases, bacterial or viral infections." but rather trying to figure out why such occurrences took place and what could have been done. Such studys are empirical to the medical process and I would be the last person to brush off any plausible evidence of failures in vaccination. In fact, that paper explicitly states, and I quote "Existing evidence supports the current policies of mass immunisation.". I don't understand why you even cited it, are you dumb or just patchworking together citations that you seem to believe can work in the favour of an anti-vaccination ideologue? Moreover, the paper itself even if it was in your favour has a lot of methodological and theoretical errors as pointed out so nicely here:

[url deleted]

The poliomyelitis (polio, which I am sure you know) paper is localised to Hungary, a country which has had a very difficult history with the disease has some methodologically questionable features also, furthermore the paper itself is once again misconstrued and used by you as a weapon as if it was further evidence against vaccinations. The paper has clearly stated an effect for vaccinations slightly lowering the number of polio cases in Hungary, and is designed in mind to encourage optimal design and distribution of OPV vaccines and prevention of VAPP. These are medical developments of vaccinations (which I should mention is still ongoing- they are not perfect) that are necessary. If you look at any medicine or medical technique and research how much work goes into developing them, you would see many papers like this, which at first glance will make you believe they are bad-- they aren't. Researchers have to be very critical and analyse with complete comprehension these systems in order to ensure the best results are engineered. It is how the scientific community works.

Please, please, please, I am sure you are someone educated or in education who is learning how to understand these papers but unless you are a student in medical or related fields, you will not fully understand the rationale nor technicalities in these papers, do not spread them as if they are your holy bible of magical articles showing how wrong vaccines are. You appear to have the potential to be a smart person, you probably are- but that post was fucking retarded. Sit your ass down and get learned. I am not anti or pro anything, I'm simply someone wanting to spread some good shit.
#243 - anonexplains (02/04/2015) [-]
Bless you man; if I could I would have given you infinite thumbs
User avatar #204 - doctorprofessornv (02/04/2015) [-]
you.
I like you.
Honestly I was going to offer some input of my own, but you beat me to the punch and hit all the right points. Good on you sir.
User avatar #57 - formidablebunny (02/03/2015) [-]
[url deleted]
watch it, understand what a moron you are, then go sit in a corner.
#40 - fuckscreennames (02/03/2015) [-]
User avatar #41 - fuckscreennames (02/03/2015) [-]
well fuck. i'm too late to use this gif
#35 - lean (02/03/2015) [-]
Do you ride in cars? Because they kill and injure more people than everything you just mentioned.
The benefits for both far outweigh potential downsides, proven fact, period. Just be glad you weren't in Disney world the other day.
#37 - goobyman (02/03/2015) [-]
nice gif
User avatar #38 - lean (02/03/2015) [-]
google has failed me again
User avatar #30 - organiclead (02/03/2015) [-]
I'm a bit surprised you're not using VAERS as an example. vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

I'm very biased toward vaccines, but I tried to look at both sides. My grandfather had polio and has had walking problems for most of his life because of it and has been bedridden for the last 10 years. Because of some of the side effects shown historically from vaccination, I tend to avoid them if they're newer than 5 years old. But the over all benefits have been amazing. After all, there is a reason most people will take the risks of vaccination over the diseases themselves. And yes, just because a population has lessened cases in a disease doesn't mean it can't re-surge.
#26 - tosatsu (02/03/2015) [-]
Why are humans so ignorant. Can't you realize that if one case in 100k dies from a vaccine, but the rest are now immune, it doesn't point out a flaw in the anti virus, but to a flaw in the individual that died? Also do you even know how they work? The whole point is to stress the body to form an immunity against a virus that is very dangerous. of course it's dangerous! That's the whole point. A very few will die, because they were too weak to begin with. Is that a bad thing? Think for a god damn second. Socially it's a big woo hoo, but genetically it's a step forward for us as a species. Stop being so ignorant and start thinking for the better of us as a god damn race.

Seriously, people have to blame something besides themselves for everything.
User avatar #227 - penileburglar (02/04/2015) [-]
I'm not disagreeing with you about the overall point--I definitely believe that vaccines are good.

But under your logic, we might as well not vaccinate anyone, so that only the people strong enough to survive the diseases at full-force will live.
#21 - comradewinter (02/03/2015) [-]
Regardless of whether or not these statements and sources are true, these victims don't make up for anywhere near how many victims we have who suffer from diseases that can be prevented by vaccination.
#19 - samoaspider (02/03/2015) [-]
all arguments have to be sharp and point on, backed with facts from reliable sources.
please do NOT paste shitton of webpages you made with google searches

(I'm not gonna trust a site that has "200 reasons not to eat wheat" pdf-book pop-up trying to sell me bullshit)
#20 - bonnierock (02/03/2015) [-]
did you clink any of the other links or did you go straight to the Green med ones? because they all are links to The US National Library of Medicine and The National Institutes of Health. Also the fuck do i care whether you trust this site i don't trust all that the shit they put up unless the research and evidence links are sound and make sense
#106 - carrotpotato (02/03/2015) [-]
This particular comment was a victim of a bandwagon. IMO vaccines have more pros than cons but they do have their cons too but seriously ncbi is as credible site as it fucking gets. And to be honest I was kind of surprised that you found so many articles claiming vaccine induced shit from there. Although those thinga are still less shitty than the world would be right now if vaccines were never invented. I'll just thumb up all your posts you've made to try and make better this injustice that happenee here. You had a different opinion from the masses but you brought it up well and actually backed it up with proper links unlike any of the assholes thumbing you down here. Well done although you probably shoudl read on herd immunity.
#29 - popeflatus (02/03/2015) [-]
Don't you love how smallpox and polio aren't things anymore? I wonder how that happened.
#23 - samoaspider (02/03/2015) [-]
I don't have to eat the whole egg to realize its rotten.
#18 - vigilantej (02/03/2015) [-]
vaccines are not more deadly if anything the reason you family member got sick was either because of a bad batch (food poisoning kill people all the time so dont even say this proves their unsafe) or you familiy/ that person had a genetic defect the reason you are not dead right now due to all these "illnesses you are not worried about catching" is because most people are complete idiots and get vaccinated which gives idiots like you whats called " herd immunity" meaning that because most people are safe you are not getting sick but on the off chance you get sick it will spread to us and fuck a bunch of shit up pleas vaccinate and dont be a moron this isnt 1940's where vaccines are not tested
#17 - krayon (02/03/2015) [-]
User avatar #11 - thesoulseeker (02/03/2015) [-]
As the person in OP's post implied there are people who don't take vaccines well.
And if you have a family history of it most doctors would take that into account.

However these people are what, in statistics, called outliers. Meaning they are very few and don't represent the majority.

It's important for most people to be vaccinated because there is a thing called herd immunity en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity and because of that some individuals can go without vaccines and not be in too much danger.

Now you seem to have a bigger interest in this than me and that you've read more than me. I'm just giving you my thoughts on this.
User avatar #182 - dtcdannyboy (02/04/2015) [-]
lol nice wikipedia sourcing bro.
User avatar #211 - thesoulseeker (02/04/2015) [-]
WIkipedia is usually a source for low level explanations on things.
User avatar #13 - bonnierock (02/03/2015) [-]
yeah i suppose my point would be simply that vaccines are not as safe, and effective as everyone makes out and that the evidence supporting terrible side effects isn't looked into at all do you think i should maybe make an actual comp with all the data i have gathered?
User avatar #102 - pseudobro (02/03/2015) [-]
You are ignorant if you believe that the side effects of medicine (such as vaccines) is not being studied thoroughly, constantly, and repeatedly. The reason vaccines are used is because the benefits (a well-vaccinated population will resist the diseases they are vaccinated against, to the degree that these diseases can be eradicated) massively outweigh the harms (some small fraction of patients vaccinated develop a harmful reaction to the vaccine, some small fraction of those patients die or suffer permanent injury).

Vaccines are designed to work on a population and have never been, and in fact cannot be, 100% effective at preventing disease in individuals. Those who cannot take vaccines are protected by those who can and do.

I acknowledge that there can be terrible side-effects of vaccines. This is true for all medicine. What we need to do is look at the big picture and try to maximize benefit while minimizing harm, and telling people not to take vaccines because it might do something bad, or because of their strange-sounding ingredients, is going to cause massive harm and zero benefit.

So, bottom line: make your comp. But unless your research reveals something truly groundbreaking, don't advise against vaccines for the general population. More than 200 years of world-wide medical and scientific research venerates their continued practice.
User avatar #119 - pseudobro (02/03/2015) [-]
PS: I should say that all potential effects of medicines are being studied, not just side-effects. If it's not being studied, then it's not medicine.
User avatar #15 - TheBearerOfBadNews (02/03/2015) [-]
I have to agree with freedomii. The cases you have pointed account for a tiny fraction of people given vaccines. all medicines carry potential side effects. Some worse than others. Aspirin, for example, can cause catastrophic gastrointestinal bleeding which can kill you. Yet people take aspirin everyday. These individual cases are unfortunate and sad but should not detract from the fact that on the whole vaccines do a great deal more good than harm. we roll the dice everyday with more risky behaviours (driving, drinking, etc) than vaccines.
#14 - freedomiii (02/03/2015) [-]
I would support such a comp. Just remember that science isn't about looking at one set of data. Cherry-picking results that confirm something while ignoring data that doesn't (in significant numbers) won't do lead to truth. Put the data in context. What's the percentage of patience that get vaccines that experience significant side affects? Is there an actual trend? etc, etc, etc.
#123 - yeah i like to argue over stupid **** but serous … 02/03/2015 on Upset? Sad? Need advice? +2
#91 - aint the thumbs its the fact that ive got such a massivly oppo…  [+] (2 new replies) 02/03/2015 on Upset? Sad? Need advice? +2
User avatar #100 - walcorn (02/03/2015) [-]
I argue with people on here all the time

it makes me feel alive
User avatar #123 - bonnierock (02/03/2015) [-]
yeah i like to argue over stupid shit but serous stuff gets me all heated and i really need to avoid it
#79 - so i just posted a big long thing i think is pretty good stuff…  [+] (4 new replies) 02/03/2015 on Upset? Sad? Need advice? +1
User avatar #82 - walcorn (02/03/2015) [-]
thumbs are just pixels

don't worry about getting red ones
User avatar #91 - bonnierock (02/03/2015) [-]
aint the thumbs its the fact that ive got such a massivly opposed opinion to most of myFj Bros and i hate having to argue over the internet with mah bredbins
User avatar #100 - walcorn (02/03/2015) [-]
I argue with people on here all the time

it makes me feel alive
User avatar #123 - bonnierock (02/03/2015) [-]
yeah i like to argue over stupid shit but serous stuff gets me all heated and i really need to avoid it
#3204 - Picture 02/03/2015 on Euro users, what do you... +1

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User avatar #1 - rhymemaster (06/09/2014) [-]
Hear me now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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