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|#7 - ... [+] (37 new replies)||08/17/2014 on Katana!||+74|
#67 - yofutofu (08/17/2014) [-]
Does nobody understand that longswords and katanas are two different kinds of tool?Longswords are essentially sharpened fucksticks designed to destroy the shit out of anything resembling armor that comes their way. They shatter bone, jelly flesh, and essentially fuck people up by sheer inexorable force of being a goddamn sharp steel bar.
Katanas don’t do that.They’re not meant to withstand collision with armor or a brick wall or a charging fully outfitted warhorse because the circumstances of its development didn’t call for that. It’s a precision instrument. It’s designed to be lightweight, outmaneuver, and find weak spots, not go barreling into people hack-n-slashing your way to victory. It’s a specialized tool.
In a sense this reflects a core difference between cultures; katanas are a shitton of work and preparation to make the execution as efficient and streamlined as possible, while longswords are more durably and simply made in response to a climate that would require a soldier to be a one-man battering ram in battle.
#90 - Womens Study Major (08/17/2014) [-]
Katanas are designed for unarmoured opponents. There's none of this finding weak spots because a good few impacts with something harder than flesh and leather will dull and chip the blade pretty badly. It's a simple fact that if your opponent is wearing any kind of metal armour the katana is not the weapon you want to use. It should be left to ceremonial stuff or cutting down defenceless people.
#13 - Womens Study Major (08/17/2014) [-]
#25 - drastronomy (08/17/2014) [-]
The longswords usually used in "katana demonstrations" are also made of shit metal. The fact is, as i said below, that if the metal used is the same and the proper forging techniques are used, and the metal is not over or under-tempered, its the thicker blade that wins.
#152 - saladtongsofdeath (08/17/2014) [-]
you forgot to include the wielder... its not the katana itself that was dangerous, it was the man behind the hilt that defined a dangerous and powerful warrior... for me, a samurai and his katana was the epitome of balance... speed and power... intellect and savagery... beauty and brute force..... all rolled into one swift strike
#247 - drastronomy (08/18/2014) [-]
Friend, samurais are essentially japanese knights. They are not superhuman, and the europeans armor would have made all the difference, especially considering the fact that the katana is not good for stabbing, which is the only attack against a normal set of armor
#251 - saladtongsofdeath (08/18/2014) [-]
true, but you have to take into consideration how well balanced they where... bushido was not only the "kill yourself if you fail" mentality.... it not only incorporated the physical aspect but also the intellectual aspect of a warrior... they where well versed in philosophy, literature, martial art (as in art of war), confucious teachings, sun tzu, and military strategies.... theres a reason why a warrior that was on average 5'4 and 150lbs was so revered as one of the best warriors in the world. and the katana was not just the only weapon that they used.... you have the naginata (halbert-ish style weapon) yumi (bow) nodachi (long sword) odachi (think sephiroth's sword from final fantasy) jute (pressure point weapon... think of smoker from one piece) kabutowari (looks like a jute but sharp and heavier, designed to break through helmets and break bones) yoroi toshi (heavy knife designed to pierce heavy armor) zanbato (probably the biggest sword they had at the time... it literally means "horse slaying sword, it was dug into the ground and pointed at a mounted opponent and stabs the horse... after the horse falls, they used to just pick it up and halve their opponents... brutal...) and kanabo (japanese bat with spikes and/or studs designed to deal massive blunt force trauma... it was such an intimidating weapon that the japanese demons where depicted walking around with it... and for good reason... very heavy and designed to break virtually anything that was stupid to get in its way) just to name a few
#256 - drastronomy (08/18/2014) [-]
Knowing poems does not help in battle, and most knights in europe were usually educated as well, often as priests or squires. The samurais did not walk around with all those weapons, and nor did the european knights. They used everything from longswords and shields to axes, halberds, spears, pikes, morningstars, flails, maces, mailbreakers, clubs, warpicks, war scythes, glaives, greatswords, bastard swords, broadswords, shortswords, daggers, estocs and certain french noble knights used slightly modified rapiers designed to break through mail in the weakpoints of a knights armor.
Equipement wise, the knight would most likely win in a battle between the two, as long as he was smart enough to choose a weapon that is not too bulky or too short.
I agree, however, that the normal footsoldiers of japan were FAR better than the man at arms of medieval europe. They often only wore leather and mail with a bascinet of sorts if they were rich enough. Those trained in combat, however, were extremely efficient since they were essentially giant hunking pieces of metal wielding weapons that could butcher horses, while swinging as fast as a broadsword
#249 - saladtongsofdeath (08/18/2014) [-]
true.... but have you ever seen the flexibility and durability of japanese armor? its been proven that a 500 year old chestpiece can withstand a direct blow of a spartan spear from a perfect angle.... and you also have to remember that the katana (although being the most memorable) was not their only weapon..... you have the naginata (halbert-ish style weapon) yumi (bow) nodachi (long sword) odachi (think sephiroth's sword from final fantasy) jute (pressure point weapon... think of smoker from one piece) kabutowari (looks like a jute but sharp and heavier, designed to break through helmets and break bones) yoroi toshi (heavy knife designed to pierce heavy armor) zanbato (probably the biggest sword they had at the time... it literally means "horse slaying sword, it was dug into the ground and pointed at a mounted opponent and stabs the horse... after the horse falls, they used to just pick it up and halve their opponents... brutal...) and kanabo (japanese bat with spikes and/or studs designed to deal massive blunt force trauma... it was such an intimidating weapon that the japanese demons where depicted walking around with it... and for good reason... very heavy and designed to break virtually anything that was stupid to get in its way) just to name a few
#80 - toguro (08/17/2014) [-]
#65 - Womens Study Major (08/17/2014) [-]
The chemical bonds are what holds it together, just like with anything else.
The study of chemistry isn't just drugs, acids and what goes bang.
#21 - citruslord (08/17/2014) [-]
Not really. Tamahagane, compared to most European steels of the time, were really high quality. Alot of the steel that came out of their smelting process was actually a bit too high in carbon content, this was fixed through many of the forging processes. In contrast to European steel, which was much more like mild steel in modern terms, so really really soft. Except for a few areas, namely Damascus and the Vikings who had a limited amount of steel just slightly superior to the Japanese
The reason the one sword is less damaged is because it's thicker and wider, and has physical support of the table, meaning most of the return force was transferred straight into the rather fragile katana blade.
#24 - drastronomy (08/17/2014) [-]
You have been playing too much chivalry
The difference between a zweihander swing and a shortsword swing is about 0.2 seconds.
Speed has to do with the force you are exerting on the "lever" of then sword, the center of mass. If the center of mass is, as it should be, just above the guard, then there is little to no difference between a longsword and a katana.
"Slow" weapons, like mauls, halberds, etc. have their center of mass MUCH closer to the tip of the weapon, hence why they are difficult to wield and change directions with quickly.
#248 - drastronomy (08/18/2014) [-]
It weighs 3 kg, so you need some level of strength to wield it, but the center of mass is very close to the guard on it and the hilt is very long. This means you can put a lot of force on the lever. The only bad thing about the zwei compared to a broadsword is the fact that it is more difficult to transport, and hence why pikes were more commonly used
#42 - andrakian (08/17/2014) [-]
#110 - toguro (08/17/2014) [-]
When it comes to swords weight is extremely important, a sword over 4Kg isn't considered a weapon because it can't be used effectively - if the sword can't be swung with decent speed it won't have much force and considering the swing speed between 2 swords 1kg apart is immense, the lighter the sword the better.
Only warhammers were made intentionally heavy because you have a lot of pole before the heavy head meaning it can be swung pretty fast - if you study a little mechanics it'll make a lotta sense.
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