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|#152 - Phillip II did nothing to provide Alexander with great general…||3 hours ago on tough fuckers||0|
|#66 - I actually work with people who have severe psychology and men…||4 hours ago on since we're all doing...||+2|
|#20 - Philip of Macedonia was the father of Alexander the Great, the… [+] (21 new replies)||03/06/2014 on tough fuckers||+3|
#25 - bjorntheberserk (03/06/2014) [-]
Phillip was the biggest badass ever lived not Alexander. Alexander did nothing to contribute to his army's greatness. He took credit from his generals who were handpicked by Phillip and trained. And Alexander used Phillip's military tactics. Alexander was a spoiled brat. My advice stop watching movies or documentaries about Alexander instead read about Phillip. Phillip took a fucking Javelin to the eye mid battle tore the fucker out and kept fighting. His own soldiers had to restrain him from fighting more out of fear he would fucking die.
#34 - whycantibefunny (03/06/2014) [-]
Alexnader was pretty badass too, as it goes. He lead the cavalry charge at the battle of Chaeronea that destroyed the Theban Scared Band, some of the best fighters of the ancient world. He rose to the throne at 18 and fought for 2 years to keep his kingdom intact. He always personally lead charges in battle, killing left and right and sustaining multiple wounds. When he found out Darius III of Persia was assassinated, he killed the assassin because he thought it was unfair, then he married Darius' wives and daughters. At the city of Tyre, he spent a year building a bridge from the mainland to the island to slaughter everyone inside after they refused to recognize his leadership. He eventually took the city and razed it. When he finished conquering Persia, he turned to march on India but his men had had enough, and Alexander got upset because his men wouldnt conquer the world with him. When he took Persepolis, some historians say he burnt the palace down just for fun. He seiged a castle in Northern Iran, took 2 crossbolts in the chest and kept fighting. At another seige he was the first to climb the ladder, but after he got up it broke. He spent 20 minutes fighting the entire defenders alone before his troops recused him. On the march from India to Babylon, he put half his men on boats in the persian gulf, and walked across the desert, only allowing himself as much water and food as his men ate. Dude was pretty badass.
When Darius offered Alexander Anatolia and Syria to stop fighting, Antigonus said
"If i was Alexander, I would accept the kings offer and return home"
Alexander replied "If i were Antigonus, I'd quit too. Thankfully i'm Alexnader"
Alexander was pretty manly too, he threw a cup in his dads face and flipped furniture over after Philip set aside his Mom for a younger woman. Just read a great book on Alexander, he's one of my favorite historical figures
#133 - bjorntheberserk (03/07/2014) [-]
First off you do not know shit about the subject being discussed and just blindly believe the person I am debated is right. What you fail to realize is that Alexander the Great is still debated today whether or not in fact he was "Great" by historians. In fact there are different accounts by different historians of Alexander's time. So it is highly subjective. You are just a dumb uneducated motherfucker who decided to chime in on a subject on which you know nothing about apparently since you did not even offer anything to the debate other than being a mindless internet troll. Go fuck yourself.
#140 - adiseasedocean (03/07/2014) [-]
Oh? And how exactly can you be so sure that i " do not know shit about the subject being discussed"? I can assure you i have done extensive research on both Alexander the Great and his father Philip of Macedonia alone with their respective generals, i also have read through all of your posts as well as Whycantibefunny and from what I have read the latter has you beat my friend. You can cast me aside as a "mindless internet troll" it is in your right to do that but do not go ahead and assume that I know nothing on the subject simply because I did not contribute anything to the discussion it was not my place to chime in with my two cents on the subject because I am not involved in the debate. However as spectator, I can form my opinion on who is more educated on the matter and that would be Whycantibefunny, not to take anything away from you personally you are also well educated on the subject but you simply aren't educated enough to have an argument on par with him. So say what you want but do not be to quick to assume because as you know it makes an ass out of you and me.
#42 - bjorntheberserk (03/06/2014) [-]
Also the goal of the Greek hegemony was ultimately just to defeat Persia. This is why Alexander's men turned on him because he fucking got greedy. Greece did not want to conquer the world but to get Persia to stop fucking with them all the time. And Alexander only ascended the throne because Phillip was assassinated a some believed that Alexander orchestrated it. Because Alexander's mother had convinced Alexander that his real father was Zeus and that Phillip was a bastard and that Alexander was destined to take his father's place. She was batshit crazy and in turn brainwashed Alexander. Also Alexander was all butthurt because Phillip would not let him buttfuck his gay boyfriend.
But here is a story which shows how Alexander truly was when his army finally invaded the Persian Empire. The Battle of the Granicus when the Persian Army was in retreat Alexander decided to run after them but did so alone when the Persians realized this they surrounded Alexander and knocked him out if it were not Alexander's bodyguard charging in and rescuing him he would have died there. And this illustrates perfectly well that Alexander's true greatness did not come from himself but from those around him. He just so happened to have all these great generals and greatly trained troops also great tactics all passed down by his father. Any idiot could have took over half the world with all that and Alexander was that idiot.
#48 - whycantibefunny (03/07/2014) [-]
I know that many think Alexander had his father assassinated, I think its highly possible he did, and i'm not defending his mother. She was pretty insane. Homosexual tendencies were the custom back then and the Romans continued it, it is said that the Macedonians loved three things "Wine, war and little boys". Philip was also kind of a dick to his son, saying that he wasnt going to be heir, disregarding his mom after he got her pregnant and the story that the day of Alexanders birth Philip cried tears of joy. Not because of a son, but because the horse he picked in the Olympics had won its race. Philip showed little acknowledgement towards Alexander until he trained Bucephalus.
And the story about Granicus that you told, you told horribly wrong. Prior to the battle, the Persian commander had 3 Satraps trained to kill Alexander and end the war as it started. They came at him during a cavalry charge across the river, Alexander killed two of them, but sustained a head wound. The final one was about to finish him when one of his Companions cut the assassins hand off, and Alexander finished him. Also, its pretty hard to run after a retreating also, when 5,000 Greek mercenaries who fought with Persia stood after the Persians fleed, and had to all be killed/captured.
And in what way is a desire to defeat the Persians and conquer the world a bad thing? Any idiot could not have done what Alexander did, he is one of antiquitys greatest leaders, and was tutored by Aristotle for years. He was no idiot. And i know about Parmenion, but Parmenion could'nt have done what Alexander did.
#135 - bjorntheberserk (03/07/2014) [-]
And to add Greece did not like any of cultures. They loved being Greek and mostly they loved being from whatever city-state they were from. They viewed all other peoples as Barbarians. So why would they want to rule over anyone? They did not want an Empire they just wanted to crush the Persians. If you studied more about Greek history you would know the Persians would not stop fucking with them. They kept trying to invade them and even tried to instigate shit between the city-states. The whole reason the Greek hegemony wars were even fought was because they wanted to unite Greece in order to topple Persia to keep them from fucking with them. The city-states though hated each other so they could not even decide who to lead them. Sparta fought with Athens and Thebes fought with Sparta then Macedon fought with Thebes and then Macedon (under Phillip not Alexander) conquered all of Greece and united them. Regardless of whether or not Alexander was a competent leader you have to admit without Phillip's tactics and without Phillip amassing such a huge well-trained army (mostly by conquering Greece) Alexander wouldn't have been able to conquer shit.
#137 - whycantibefunny (03/07/2014) [-]
I do know about Greek history, the Greco-Persian wars, the battles of Thermopylae, Marathon, Slamis, Plataea; the Ionian revolt etc, I love history, particularly military history. I know all about the Persian-Greek relations of the 5th century BCE, don't think i'm just some dude googling shit. You also seem to be forgetting that the main component of Alexanders armies were Macedonins, not Greeks. The Greeks wanted to focus on their city-states in Greece, but the "Barbarian" Macedonians wanted to expand their empire. And yes, Philip II certainly provided a military base which was of unparalled importance later to Alexander, but Alexander was a brilliant military strategist. Could Alexander have done it without Philip? Maybe. Would it have been harder? Incredibly so, but still possible, Alexander wasn't a bumbling idiot. Also, Philip didn't really develop any new tactics, besides use of the Sarissa. Most of what he did was just the tactics of the Theban general Epaminondas. But to say Alexander wouldn't have succeded without Philip? No, thats insane.
#142 - bjorntheberserk (03/07/2014) [-]
He would not have succeeded at all without his father. His father is the one who trained the armies to use oblique Calvary charges.
"The army of the Kingdom of Macedonia was among the greatest military forces of the ancient world. It was created and made formidable by King Philip II of Macedon; previously the army of Macedon had been of little account in the politics of the Greek world, and Macedonia had been regarded as a second-rate power.
The latest innovations in weapons and tactics were adopted and refined by Philip II, and he created a uniquely flexible and effective army. By introducing military service as a full-time occupation, Philip was able to drill his men regularly, ensuring unity and cohesion in his ranks. In a remarkably short time, this led to the creation of one of the finest military machines of the ancient world." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_army
I know wikipedia source but whatever
Heavily recommend reading this article. If you think Phillip did not invent any new techniques you are mistaken. Phillip was the only reason why Macedonia went from a city-state of sheep herders and farmers to a kingdom with a one of the best professional standing armies in the ancient world not to mention the feat of unifying Greece.
"Philip improved the force of the phalanx by making it deeper and giving the feet companions a lance of six meters instead of a spear. The lance had to be carried with two hands and therefore, the Macedonian shield was less heavy. The sheer offensive power of the six battalions of 1500 men was the unit's best defense."
#150 - whycantibefunny (03/07/2014) [-]
Epaminondas was the General who invented the oblique order of attack, as well as expanding the size/depth of the Phalanx. Look up the battle of Leuctra, Epaminondas put over half his troops in one of his 4 phalanxes and had them advance against the Psrtans for a stunning victory in 371 BCE.
I'm not going to argue anymore on the subject since i'm not going to change your opinion and you're not going to change mine.
Could Philip II have done what Alexander did? Could Alexander have done it without Philip II? Could Alexander have done it without Parmenion? We'll never know. Have a good day, internet stranger.
#132 - bjorntheberserk (03/07/2014) [-]
The Grancius battle incident I remembered from one of the lectures from my history professor and cannot find any sources on it so I do not know for sure. But it is actually really split down the middle between historians about whether or not Alexander was a capable leader or if he just was riding on the greatness of his father. I believe the former www.military-history.org/intel/alexander-the-great-historys-greatest-leader.htm here is just one article I found which agrees with me. Also there is a reason Alexander the Great always is referred to humorously as "Alexander the not so Great".
#138 - whycantibefunny (03/07/2014) [-]
The Granicus River source i'm reading in my book ("Alexander the Great" by Philip Freeman) reiterates what i said. Also that article is incredibly poorly thought out and biased and boils down to "Alexander pranced around on a horse while Parmenion did the real conquering". Which of course, is absurd. Alexander was at the forefront of the hardest fighting during his battles, saving the Macedonian camp from being destroyed at Gaugamela, and facing a much larger force at Hydaspes. Parmenion, although very capable, was more of a logistics controler and left wing commander, where as Alexander was the overall strategist who drove the Persians from the feild each time. Parmenion was more important in the beginning of the expedition than during the later parts. Even Hannibal Barca listed Alexander as the greatest General of the age, and that was the man who thrashed Rome up and down Italy.
#143 - bjorntheberserk (03/07/2014) [-]
"Philip's dream for conquering the Persian Empire now lays on his successor, his son king Alexander III. But both ancient and modern historians recognize that without the military and political efforts of Philip, Alexander would have never been as successful as he was. After all, it was Philip who created the powerful Macedonian army and turned Macedonia into a strong nation in arms." www.historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/PhilipofMacedon.html
#51 - whycantibefunny (03/07/2014) [-]
It was actually 20,000 Greek mercenaries that refused to flee, not 5,000 my bad. But it still proves my point, Alexander couldn't have "Decided to run after them so alone" because there was no retreating army to run after, with 20,000 mercenaries standing firm.
#152 - GodofTV (3 hours ago) [-]
Phillip II did nothing to provide Alexander with great generals, he only took council from The Companions, a group of childhood friends who tutored under Aristotle with him. I'm not sure why you're on Phillip II's dick so hard as it is well known that he was not only a womanizing drunk but had a severe inferiority complex stemming from the fact that the rest of Greece considered Macedonia a country of backwards blumpkins. He was fortunate enough to be king over a land which discovered immense wealth in gold mines and hire a rather large army of mercenaries which he used to conquer. No where does it say that any of his feats were remotely impressive. Yes, Alexander's mom was crazy as shit. Yes, Alexander had a textbook case of narcissism. But that's what drove him to conquer most of the known world and that's why he is Alexander the Great.
#41 - whycantibefunny (03/06/2014) [-]
Details of the battle are scarce, but it is generally accepted Alexander was the one who took the fight to the Sacred Band, ultimatly destroying them with his Companion Cavalry. Philip II was the Macedonian leader but Alexander was the leader of the Left wing who attacked the Sacred Band, who were on the extreme right of the Greek wing, because it was the most honorable position. Plutarch wrote "Alexander was the first to break the ranks of the Sacred Band of the Thebans". 254 of the Sacred Band fell against Alexander and his troops.
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#51 - anonymous (01/04/2014) [-]
Fuck off and don't tell me what to do.
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