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Carthusia

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Gender: male
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Date Signed Up:1/29/2010
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latest user's comments

#9 - "Phew, now I don't have to refute any of it, so I win."  [+] (15 replies) 12/06/2016 on Lefty Tunes #1: The Good Fight +7
#12 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is sex trafficking in Eastern Europe?
You think that is a symptom of capitalism and not just fucked up people?
What is the killing of drug addicts in the Philippines by Duterte?
He is specifically targeting drug cartels unsurprisingly the easiest way to get to the people that sell drug is through the people that buy them, ain't pretty but it works.
What is Exxon Mobile covering up their data on climate change?
You mean the multi-million dollar study that they published?
What is the Belgian Kongo and the mess of states left after?
Failed imperialism
What is French Algeria?
More failed imperialism
British India and Pakistan?
A massive tea plantation and salt farm
What is the Iraq War?
which one? no seriously I assume you mean one of the relatively more recent ones but what specifically?
What is the Yemeni Civil War, and the US supporting Saudi bombing campaigns on civilian targets, during a famine?
war crimes
What is De Beers?
Money hungry cunts that artificially inflated the price and demand of rocks, this flies in the face of capitalism by the way.
What is the 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile?
I believe the technical term is wasp activity.
#13 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is violence and regime change in the Honduras?
That was a coup, those happen when things get shitty enough.
What is the genocide of Chinese people in Indonesia?
Wasn't that kicked off by a fuck ton of government officials getting assassinated?
What is the Vietnam War?
A proxy-ish war between the soviet union and the states, you can't pin that one on either side without acknowledging the other.
What is the CIA funding of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge?
Strategic, we were trying to kill commies without getting our own guys hurt so we outsourced to the best commie killers around, other commies.
What is the Syrian Crisis and the Pentagon funding one side, while the CIA funds another?
Going to need source on that one.
What is Conflict Minerals?
see De Beers
What is post French Rwanda and the genocide that followed?
I am aware of Belgian Rwanda and the ethinc genocide that happened between to pre-existing tribes that were already at each others throats.
What is the funding of Afghani Taliban during the USSR's invasion on Afghanistan?
Exactly what it sounds like. We weren't even close to friends with the USSR at the time and we didn't want them expanding their influence into an area known to be rich in vital natural resources.
#14 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is the 1954 Guatemalan Coup d'Etat?
This one boils down to greed so I'll give it to you.
What is Koch Industries bankrolling the Nazi oil industry?
business?
What is Allied Powers supporting the Tsarists during the Russian Civil War?
You don't get in the way of a superpower tearing it's self apart. it's wise to move along the process because superpowers have a historical tendency for imperialism.
What is the continued occupation and bombing campaigns against the Palestinian people?
That's israel being israel. they're a bunch of cunts
What are the lies and corporate greed that led to the 2008 crash?
Corruption, you think anyone would try to defend or want corruption in their system? calling that capitalism is like calling theft redistribution of wealth.
What is fracking and the contamination of water sources?
Communist nations don't get gas by fracking?
What is the entire oil industry?
ok you covered that last one with that then. guess electricity is evil too then huh?
What is the lobbying of government by companies like Haliburton, owned by Dick Cheney, to go on with perpetual warfare?
got no complaints with this one, lobbying in such a way that is practically buying laws is evil as hell.
What is Foxconn?
outsourced slave labor due to apple being the biggest corporate cunts on the planet.
What is the private prison industry?
better than gulags.
What is the lobbying of the health insurance industry and big pharma against marijuana and single payer health care?
Dying, yeah both of those things are dying because it's more lucrative all around the other way.
What is NAFTA?
it's going to get abolished very fucking soon. But it did get some solid infrastructure in place.
What is TPP?
Not in effect?
What is PIPA, CISPA, SOPA?
also not in effect?
#11 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Got distracted by a mention back to showing you why your argument is shit.
#10 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Ok I'll refute at least half of this in one go. Greed is part of the human condition, you aren't going to magically produce "the new soviet man" by removing the need to acquire basic necessities for the individual.
What is asbestos?
Literally the best insulation that retarded fire spread at the time.
What is lead contamination in the water of many US cities?
Lead pipes were used around the world because they were easy to work with and cheap to produce.
What are the Drug Cartels?
Are you fucking serious? What is krokodile?
What is police violence in the US?
It's over reported and cops are getting executed by thugs because of it.
What is leaded gasoline?
It wildly increased fuel economy but this is the first legitimate nitpic you have over a product because the problems with it were known at the time.
What is child labour in Asian countries and the Industrial Revolution?
Not exactly sure how those two tie together.
What is the Native American Genocide in North America?
What is germ theory and when did it come about again? aside from the pox blankest propaganda that get's pushed there was a fucking conquest going on.
What is the Irish Potato Famine?
A single potato species was used for an entire god damn country of course shit got fucked.

Totallytito The only time I even mentioned you was right after you blocked me for calling you on your shit once.
stop acting like I crawled into your ass.
#16 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
I'll just go withthe greed one as you seem to think that's the most importante one. The idea of greed being part of the human condition is totally ideological. There's no reason to think that from a sccientifical psychological point of view. Obviously, if you live in a system where competition and richness acumulation are the only way of developing It is probable that you wil be greedy.

The idea of greed as human nature is just a reflex of the material condition of our existance in a concrete economical system, but as It changes, so will people. That is how ideology works, every idea Will try to make itself look natural, It is just a sociological matter, you can check people like Pierre Bourdiou for this idea.
User avatar
#34 - existance (12/06/2016) [-]
Existence*
#18 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
I believe greed is an offshoot of the natural hording behavior one would would have to take to survive the winter given they live somewhere where it freezes over completely or say had the entire gene pool of a species survived an ice age. Without that impulse to amass wealth (food, firewood, etc. That really is all wealth comes down to, extensions of necessities.) humans never would have become what we are today.
#19 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
In a situation like that greed is actually bad. We need other humans to success surviving, we are social animals and it's easier for us to specialize and share. Greed plays a role, of course, but not more than solidarity.
#21 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Now would you consider that lions share to the chieftain a sign of greedy classicism or a payment to a service?
#22 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
classism damn autocorrect
#35 - casadue (12/06/2016) [-]
but comparing humans to lions doesn't sound like a very good argument, since lion males tend to kill the cubs in order for the females to turn fertile back again.

at this point we should define what is human nature, so it would be possible start an argument.

my counter-argument about your "inherently-part-of-human nature" statement about greed is that the species homo sapiens tend to aggregate in communities and form societies, the greed is a mechanism that tends to disgregate such communities or putting one against the others, so it makes more sense cooperation and collectivism because a single is weaker than the group. then, according to this, we live in a social and cultural system in which the most arrogant, strong and selfish individuals gain power on all the rest rather than the more rational and wise ones, thus leading to bad endings. like hitler in germany and, more relevant example, stalin in russia. or again trump in the us, because we can't deny that a common feature of these three figures is an incredible charismatic attitude that is appreciated by the people.
#36 - tapeboy (23 hours ago) [-]
I wasn't comparing humans to lions, I was using an expression. Greed is an extension of selfishness, selfishness is an extension self preservation. A single small tribe in a vacuum can work completely fine in a communal social system, now there were two tribes competing for the same resources suddenly the communal system goes out the window, sure they may trade from time to time, and they may even be friendly with each other but they will invariably take the well being and self interest of their own tribe above that of their neighbor.

While you are completely correct about humans making communities, you are ignoring the fact that there is never just one community. As long as there is any division(race, creed, sex, IQ, hell even just the music one like is enough to unbalance such a system) between humans there can never be Communism. Communism isn't a system of equality, it's a system that can only work if everyone is exactly equal.
#20 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
While I wont argue against communal-ism working in tribes it is worth pointing out that those tribes are always autocratic in nature. There is always a chief or pack leader that gets the lions share and that dictates the actions of the tribe to some degree.
While the entire tribe benefits from the communal amassed wealth it is dependent on the leader making the right decisions and the community being completely trustworthy.

Now if we were to expand that community to the size of a small city without changing any of the base rules the city would collapse under the weight of human of the human mind, we simply can't make enough meaning full connections to expand such a system much past 150 individuals.
#7 - And let's put muh GOMMUNIZT ATROCITIES killed 100 gorillion in…  [+] (17 replies) 12/06/2016 on Lefty Tunes #1: The Good Fight +5
#8 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
If you have to have your argument copy pasted your argument is shit.
#9 - Carthusia (12/06/2016) [-]
"Phew, now I don't have to refute any of it, so I win."
#12 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is sex trafficking in Eastern Europe?
You think that is a symptom of capitalism and not just fucked up people?
What is the killing of drug addicts in the Philippines by Duterte?
He is specifically targeting drug cartels unsurprisingly the easiest way to get to the people that sell drug is through the people that buy them, ain't pretty but it works.
What is Exxon Mobile covering up their data on climate change?
You mean the multi-million dollar study that they published?
What is the Belgian Kongo and the mess of states left after?
Failed imperialism
What is French Algeria?
More failed imperialism
British India and Pakistan?
A massive tea plantation and salt farm
What is the Iraq War?
which one? no seriously I assume you mean one of the relatively more recent ones but what specifically?
What is the Yemeni Civil War, and the US supporting Saudi bombing campaigns on civilian targets, during a famine?
war crimes
What is De Beers?
Money hungry cunts that artificially inflated the price and demand of rocks, this flies in the face of capitalism by the way.
What is the 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile?
I believe the technical term is wasp activity.
#13 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is violence and regime change in the Honduras?
That was a coup, those happen when things get shitty enough.
What is the genocide of Chinese people in Indonesia?
Wasn't that kicked off by a fuck ton of government officials getting assassinated?
What is the Vietnam War?
A proxy-ish war between the soviet union and the states, you can't pin that one on either side without acknowledging the other.
What is the CIA funding of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge?
Strategic, we were trying to kill commies without getting our own guys hurt so we outsourced to the best commie killers around, other commies.
What is the Syrian Crisis and the Pentagon funding one side, while the CIA funds another?
Going to need source on that one.
What is Conflict Minerals?
see De Beers
What is post French Rwanda and the genocide that followed?
I am aware of Belgian Rwanda and the ethinc genocide that happened between to pre-existing tribes that were already at each others throats.
What is the funding of Afghani Taliban during the USSR's invasion on Afghanistan?
Exactly what it sounds like. We weren't even close to friends with the USSR at the time and we didn't want them expanding their influence into an area known to be rich in vital natural resources.
#14 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is the 1954 Guatemalan Coup d'Etat?
This one boils down to greed so I'll give it to you.
What is Koch Industries bankrolling the Nazi oil industry?
business?
What is Allied Powers supporting the Tsarists during the Russian Civil War?
You don't get in the way of a superpower tearing it's self apart. it's wise to move along the process because superpowers have a historical tendency for imperialism.
What is the continued occupation and bombing campaigns against the Palestinian people?
That's israel being israel. they're a bunch of cunts
What are the lies and corporate greed that led to the 2008 crash?
Corruption, you think anyone would try to defend or want corruption in their system? calling that capitalism is like calling theft redistribution of wealth.
What is fracking and the contamination of water sources?
Communist nations don't get gas by fracking?
What is the entire oil industry?
ok you covered that last one with that then. guess electricity is evil too then huh?
What is the lobbying of government by companies like Haliburton, owned by Dick Cheney, to go on with perpetual warfare?
got no complaints with this one, lobbying in such a way that is practically buying laws is evil as hell.
What is Foxconn?
outsourced slave labor due to apple being the biggest corporate cunts on the planet.
What is the private prison industry?
better than gulags.
What is the lobbying of the health insurance industry and big pharma against marijuana and single payer health care?
Dying, yeah both of those things are dying because it's more lucrative all around the other way.
What is NAFTA?
it's going to get abolished very fucking soon. But it did get some solid infrastructure in place.
What is TPP?
Not in effect?
What is PIPA, CISPA, SOPA?
also not in effect?
#11 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Got distracted by a mention back to showing you why your argument is shit.
#10 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Ok I'll refute at least half of this in one go. Greed is part of the human condition, you aren't going to magically produce "the new soviet man" by removing the need to acquire basic necessities for the individual.
What is asbestos?
Literally the best insulation that retarded fire spread at the time.
What is lead contamination in the water of many US cities?
Lead pipes were used around the world because they were easy to work with and cheap to produce.
What are the Drug Cartels?
Are you fucking serious? What is krokodile?
What is police violence in the US?
It's over reported and cops are getting executed by thugs because of it.
What is leaded gasoline?
It wildly increased fuel economy but this is the first legitimate nitpic you have over a product because the problems with it were known at the time.
What is child labour in Asian countries and the Industrial Revolution?
Not exactly sure how those two tie together.
What is the Native American Genocide in North America?
What is germ theory and when did it come about again? aside from the pox blankest propaganda that get's pushed there was a fucking conquest going on.
What is the Irish Potato Famine?
A single potato species was used for an entire god damn country of course shit got fucked.

Totallytito The only time I even mentioned you was right after you blocked me for calling you on your shit once.
stop acting like I crawled into your ass.
#16 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
I'll just go withthe greed one as you seem to think that's the most importante one. The idea of greed being part of the human condition is totally ideological. There's no reason to think that from a sccientifical psychological point of view. Obviously, if you live in a system where competition and richness acumulation are the only way of developing It is probable that you wil be greedy.

The idea of greed as human nature is just a reflex of the material condition of our existance in a concrete economical system, but as It changes, so will people. That is how ideology works, every idea Will try to make itself look natural, It is just a sociological matter, you can check people like Pierre Bourdiou for this idea.
User avatar
#34 - existance (12/06/2016) [-]
Existence*
#18 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
I believe greed is an offshoot of the natural hording behavior one would would have to take to survive the winter given they live somewhere where it freezes over completely or say had the entire gene pool of a species survived an ice age. Without that impulse to amass wealth (food, firewood, etc. That really is all wealth comes down to, extensions of necessities.) humans never would have become what we are today.
#19 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
In a situation like that greed is actually bad. We need other humans to success surviving, we are social animals and it's easier for us to specialize and share. Greed plays a role, of course, but not more than solidarity.
#21 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Now would you consider that lions share to the chieftain a sign of greedy classicism or a payment to a service?
#22 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
classism damn autocorrect
#35 - casadue (12/06/2016) [-]
but comparing humans to lions doesn't sound like a very good argument, since lion males tend to kill the cubs in order for the females to turn fertile back again.

at this point we should define what is human nature, so it would be possible start an argument.

my counter-argument about your "inherently-part-of-human nature" statement about greed is that the species homo sapiens tend to aggregate in communities and form societies, the greed is a mechanism that tends to disgregate such communities or putting one against the others, so it makes more sense cooperation and collectivism because a single is weaker than the group. then, according to this, we live in a social and cultural system in which the most arrogant, strong and selfish individuals gain power on all the rest rather than the more rational and wise ones, thus leading to bad endings. like hitler in germany and, more relevant example, stalin in russia. or again trump in the us, because we can't deny that a common feature of these three figures is an incredible charismatic attitude that is appreciated by the people.
#36 - tapeboy (23 hours ago) [-]
I wasn't comparing humans to lions, I was using an expression. Greed is an extension of selfishness, selfishness is an extension self preservation. A single small tribe in a vacuum can work completely fine in a communal social system, now there were two tribes competing for the same resources suddenly the communal system goes out the window, sure they may trade from time to time, and they may even be friendly with each other but they will invariably take the well being and self interest of their own tribe above that of their neighbor.

While you are completely correct about humans making communities, you are ignoring the fact that there is never just one community. As long as there is any division(race, creed, sex, IQ, hell even just the music one like is enough to unbalance such a system) between humans there can never be Communism. Communism isn't a system of equality, it's a system that can only work if everyone is exactly equal.
#20 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
While I wont argue against communal-ism working in tribes it is worth pointing out that those tribes are always autocratic in nature. There is always a chief or pack leader that gets the lions share and that dictates the actions of the tribe to some degree.
While the entire tribe benefits from the communal amassed wealth it is dependent on the leader making the right decisions and the community being completely trustworthy.

Now if we were to expand that community to the size of a small city without changing any of the base rules the city would collapse under the weight of human of the human mind, we simply can't make enough meaning full connections to expand such a system much past 150 individuals.
#5 - and capitalists don't?  [+] (19 replies) 12/06/2016 on Lefty Tunes #1: The Good Fight +4
#6 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Commies and socialist hold the highscore for own populations genocided. And that's not even counting the individual people killed that's just instances of genocides.
#7 - Carthusia (12/06/2016) [-]
And let's put muh GOMMUNIZT ATROCITIES killed 100 gorillion into perspective
Let's play a game. I list capitalist atrocities, and you list communist ones. I'll start:
What is the Belgian Kongo and the mess of states left after?
What is French Algeria?
What is British India and Pakistan?
What is the Native American Genocide in North America?
What is the Iraq War?
What is the Yemeni Civil War, and the US supporting Saudi bombing campaigns on civilian targets, during a famine?
What is De Beers?
What is the 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile?
What is the Contras in Nicaragua?
What is violence and regime change in the Honduras?
What is the genocide of Chinese people in Indonesia?
What is the Vietnam War?
What is the CIA funding of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge?
What is the Syrian Crisis and the Pentagon funding one side, while the CIA funds another?
What is Conflict Minerals?
What is post French Rwanda and the genocide that followed?
What is the Irish Potato Famine?
What is the funding of Afghani Taliban during the USSR's invasion on Afghanistan?
What is the 1954 Guatemalan Coup d'Etat?
What is Koch Industries bankrolling the Nazi oil industry?
What is Allied Powers supporting the Tsarists during the Russian Civil War?
What is the continued occupation and bombing campaigns against the Palestinian people?
What is sex trafficking in Eastern Europe?
What are the lies and corporate greed that led to the 2008 crash?
What is the Libyan conflict?
What is fracking and the contamination of water sources?
What is the entire oil industry?
What is the lobbying of government by companies like Haliburton, owned by Dick Cheney, to go on with perpetual warfare?
What is child labour in Asian countries and the Industrial Revolution?
What is Foxconn?
What is Exxon Mobile covering up their data on climate change?
What is the private prison industry?
What is the lobbying of the health insurance industry and big pharma against marijuana and single payer health care?
What is asbestos?
What is lead contamination in the water of many US cities?
What is NAFTA?
What is TPP?
What is PIPA, CISPA, SOPA?
What are the Drug Cartels?
What is police violence in the US?
What is the killing of drug addicts in the Philippines by Duterte?
What is leaded gasoline ( www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health )?
#8 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
If you have to have your argument copy pasted your argument is shit.
#9 - Carthusia (12/06/2016) [-]
"Phew, now I don't have to refute any of it, so I win."
#12 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is sex trafficking in Eastern Europe?
You think that is a symptom of capitalism and not just fucked up people?
What is the killing of drug addicts in the Philippines by Duterte?
He is specifically targeting drug cartels unsurprisingly the easiest way to get to the people that sell drug is through the people that buy them, ain't pretty but it works.
What is Exxon Mobile covering up their data on climate change?
You mean the multi-million dollar study that they published?
What is the Belgian Kongo and the mess of states left after?
Failed imperialism
What is French Algeria?
More failed imperialism
British India and Pakistan?
A massive tea plantation and salt farm
What is the Iraq War?
which one? no seriously I assume you mean one of the relatively more recent ones but what specifically?
What is the Yemeni Civil War, and the US supporting Saudi bombing campaigns on civilian targets, during a famine?
war crimes
What is De Beers?
Money hungry cunts that artificially inflated the price and demand of rocks, this flies in the face of capitalism by the way.
What is the 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile?
I believe the technical term is wasp activity.
#13 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is violence and regime change in the Honduras?
That was a coup, those happen when things get shitty enough.
What is the genocide of Chinese people in Indonesia?
Wasn't that kicked off by a fuck ton of government officials getting assassinated?
What is the Vietnam War?
A proxy-ish war between the soviet union and the states, you can't pin that one on either side without acknowledging the other.
What is the CIA funding of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge?
Strategic, we were trying to kill commies without getting our own guys hurt so we outsourced to the best commie killers around, other commies.
What is the Syrian Crisis and the Pentagon funding one side, while the CIA funds another?
Going to need source on that one.
What is Conflict Minerals?
see De Beers
What is post French Rwanda and the genocide that followed?
I am aware of Belgian Rwanda and the ethinc genocide that happened between to pre-existing tribes that were already at each others throats.
What is the funding of Afghani Taliban during the USSR's invasion on Afghanistan?
Exactly what it sounds like. We weren't even close to friends with the USSR at the time and we didn't want them expanding their influence into an area known to be rich in vital natural resources.
#14 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is the 1954 Guatemalan Coup d'Etat?
This one boils down to greed so I'll give it to you.
What is Koch Industries bankrolling the Nazi oil industry?
business?
What is Allied Powers supporting the Tsarists during the Russian Civil War?
You don't get in the way of a superpower tearing it's self apart. it's wise to move along the process because superpowers have a historical tendency for imperialism.
What is the continued occupation and bombing campaigns against the Palestinian people?
That's israel being israel. they're a bunch of cunts
What are the lies and corporate greed that led to the 2008 crash?
Corruption, you think anyone would try to defend or want corruption in their system? calling that capitalism is like calling theft redistribution of wealth.
What is fracking and the contamination of water sources?
Communist nations don't get gas by fracking?
What is the entire oil industry?
ok you covered that last one with that then. guess electricity is evil too then huh?
What is the lobbying of government by companies like Haliburton, owned by Dick Cheney, to go on with perpetual warfare?
got no complaints with this one, lobbying in such a way that is practically buying laws is evil as hell.
What is Foxconn?
outsourced slave labor due to apple being the biggest corporate cunts on the planet.
What is the private prison industry?
better than gulags.
What is the lobbying of the health insurance industry and big pharma against marijuana and single payer health care?
Dying, yeah both of those things are dying because it's more lucrative all around the other way.
What is NAFTA?
it's going to get abolished very fucking soon. But it did get some solid infrastructure in place.
What is TPP?
Not in effect?
What is PIPA, CISPA, SOPA?
also not in effect?
#11 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Got distracted by a mention back to showing you why your argument is shit.
#10 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Ok I'll refute at least half of this in one go. Greed is part of the human condition, you aren't going to magically produce "the new soviet man" by removing the need to acquire basic necessities for the individual.
What is asbestos?
Literally the best insulation that retarded fire spread at the time.
What is lead contamination in the water of many US cities?
Lead pipes were used around the world because they were easy to work with and cheap to produce.
What are the Drug Cartels?
Are you fucking serious? What is krokodile?
What is police violence in the US?
It's over reported and cops are getting executed by thugs because of it.
What is leaded gasoline?
It wildly increased fuel economy but this is the first legitimate nitpic you have over a product because the problems with it were known at the time.
What is child labour in Asian countries and the Industrial Revolution?
Not exactly sure how those two tie together.
What is the Native American Genocide in North America?
What is germ theory and when did it come about again? aside from the pox blankest propaganda that get's pushed there was a fucking conquest going on.
What is the Irish Potato Famine?
A single potato species was used for an entire god damn country of course shit got fucked.

Totallytito The only time I even mentioned you was right after you blocked me for calling you on your shit once.
stop acting like I crawled into your ass.
#16 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
I'll just go withthe greed one as you seem to think that's the most importante one. The idea of greed being part of the human condition is totally ideological. There's no reason to think that from a sccientifical psychological point of view. Obviously, if you live in a system where competition and richness acumulation are the only way of developing It is probable that you wil be greedy.

The idea of greed as human nature is just a reflex of the material condition of our existance in a concrete economical system, but as It changes, so will people. That is how ideology works, every idea Will try to make itself look natural, It is just a sociological matter, you can check people like Pierre Bourdiou for this idea.
User avatar
#34 - existance (12/06/2016) [-]
Existence*
#18 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
I believe greed is an offshoot of the natural hording behavior one would would have to take to survive the winter given they live somewhere where it freezes over completely or say had the entire gene pool of a species survived an ice age. Without that impulse to amass wealth (food, firewood, etc. That really is all wealth comes down to, extensions of necessities.) humans never would have become what we are today.
#19 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
In a situation like that greed is actually bad. We need other humans to success surviving, we are social animals and it's easier for us to specialize and share. Greed plays a role, of course, but not more than solidarity.
#21 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Now would you consider that lions share to the chieftain a sign of greedy classicism or a payment to a service?
#22 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
classism damn autocorrect
#35 - casadue (12/06/2016) [-]
but comparing humans to lions doesn't sound like a very good argument, since lion males tend to kill the cubs in order for the females to turn fertile back again.

at this point we should define what is human nature, so it would be possible start an argument.

my counter-argument about your "inherently-part-of-human nature" statement about greed is that the species homo sapiens tend to aggregate in communities and form societies, the greed is a mechanism that tends to disgregate such communities or putting one against the others, so it makes more sense cooperation and collectivism because a single is weaker than the group. then, according to this, we live in a social and cultural system in which the most arrogant, strong and selfish individuals gain power on all the rest rather than the more rational and wise ones, thus leading to bad endings. like hitler in germany and, more relevant example, stalin in russia. or again trump in the us, because we can't deny that a common feature of these three figures is an incredible charismatic attitude that is appreciated by the people.
#36 - tapeboy (23 hours ago) [-]
I wasn't comparing humans to lions, I was using an expression. Greed is an extension of selfishness, selfishness is an extension self preservation. A single small tribe in a vacuum can work completely fine in a communal social system, now there were two tribes competing for the same resources suddenly the communal system goes out the window, sure they may trade from time to time, and they may even be friendly with each other but they will invariably take the well being and self interest of their own tribe above that of their neighbor.

While you are completely correct about humans making communities, you are ignoring the fact that there is never just one community. As long as there is any division(race, creed, sex, IQ, hell even just the music one like is enough to unbalance such a system) between humans there can never be Communism. Communism isn't a system of equality, it's a system that can only work if everyone is exactly equal.
#20 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
While I wont argue against communal-ism working in tribes it is worth pointing out that those tribes are always autocratic in nature. There is always a chief or pack leader that gets the lions share and that dictates the actions of the tribe to some degree.
While the entire tribe benefits from the communal amassed wealth it is dependent on the leader making the right decisions and the community being completely trustworthy.

Now if we were to expand that community to the size of a small city without changing any of the base rules the city would collapse under the weight of human of the human mind, we simply can't make enough meaning full connections to expand such a system much past 150 individuals.
#3 - **** outta here, boot-licker.  [+] (26 replies) 12/06/2016 on Lefty Tunes #1: The Good Fight +1
#25 - marxist (12/06/2016) [-]
Adding this to your comment for no particular reason.

To all my subs:
READ THE FUCKING BREAD BOOK

libcom.org/files/Peter%20Kropotkin-%20The%20Conquest%20of%20Bread.pdf

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#29 - leftypol (12/06/2016) [-]
Thanks I was actually planning on reading it anyway, this makes it easier.
User avatar
#28 - javertshat (12/06/2016) [-]
Thanks comrade people need more anarchist literature in their life
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#27 - shibe (12/06/2016) [-]
bread book is fun book
#24 - marxist (12/06/2016) [-]
#4 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Because commies never abuse power and tyrannize their people with military force right?
#5 - Carthusia (12/06/2016) [-]
and capitalists don't?
#6 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Commies and socialist hold the highscore for own populations genocided. And that's not even counting the individual people killed that's just instances of genocides.
#7 - Carthusia (12/06/2016) [-]
And let's put muh GOMMUNIZT ATROCITIES killed 100 gorillion into perspective
Let's play a game. I list capitalist atrocities, and you list communist ones. I'll start:
What is the Belgian Kongo and the mess of states left after?
What is French Algeria?
What is British India and Pakistan?
What is the Native American Genocide in North America?
What is the Iraq War?
What is the Yemeni Civil War, and the US supporting Saudi bombing campaigns on civilian targets, during a famine?
What is De Beers?
What is the 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile?
What is the Contras in Nicaragua?
What is violence and regime change in the Honduras?
What is the genocide of Chinese people in Indonesia?
What is the Vietnam War?
What is the CIA funding of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge?
What is the Syrian Crisis and the Pentagon funding one side, while the CIA funds another?
What is Conflict Minerals?
What is post French Rwanda and the genocide that followed?
What is the Irish Potato Famine?
What is the funding of Afghani Taliban during the USSR's invasion on Afghanistan?
What is the 1954 Guatemalan Coup d'Etat?
What is Koch Industries bankrolling the Nazi oil industry?
What is Allied Powers supporting the Tsarists during the Russian Civil War?
What is the continued occupation and bombing campaigns against the Palestinian people?
What is sex trafficking in Eastern Europe?
What are the lies and corporate greed that led to the 2008 crash?
What is the Libyan conflict?
What is fracking and the contamination of water sources?
What is the entire oil industry?
What is the lobbying of government by companies like Haliburton, owned by Dick Cheney, to go on with perpetual warfare?
What is child labour in Asian countries and the Industrial Revolution?
What is Foxconn?
What is Exxon Mobile covering up their data on climate change?
What is the private prison industry?
What is the lobbying of the health insurance industry and big pharma against marijuana and single payer health care?
What is asbestos?
What is lead contamination in the water of many US cities?
What is NAFTA?
What is TPP?
What is PIPA, CISPA, SOPA?
What are the Drug Cartels?
What is police violence in the US?
What is the killing of drug addicts in the Philippines by Duterte?
What is leaded gasoline ( www.motherjones.com/environment/2016/02/lead-exposure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health )?
#8 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
If you have to have your argument copy pasted your argument is shit.
#9 - Carthusia (12/06/2016) [-]
"Phew, now I don't have to refute any of it, so I win."
#12 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is sex trafficking in Eastern Europe?
You think that is a symptom of capitalism and not just fucked up people?
What is the killing of drug addicts in the Philippines by Duterte?
He is specifically targeting drug cartels unsurprisingly the easiest way to get to the people that sell drug is through the people that buy them, ain't pretty but it works.
What is Exxon Mobile covering up their data on climate change?
You mean the multi-million dollar study that they published?
What is the Belgian Kongo and the mess of states left after?
Failed imperialism
What is French Algeria?
More failed imperialism
British India and Pakistan?
A massive tea plantation and salt farm
What is the Iraq War?
which one? no seriously I assume you mean one of the relatively more recent ones but what specifically?
What is the Yemeni Civil War, and the US supporting Saudi bombing campaigns on civilian targets, during a famine?
war crimes
What is De Beers?
Money hungry cunts that artificially inflated the price and demand of rocks, this flies in the face of capitalism by the way.
What is the 1973 CIA funded coup of Allende in Chile?
I believe the technical term is wasp activity.
#13 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is violence and regime change in the Honduras?
That was a coup, those happen when things get shitty enough.
What is the genocide of Chinese people in Indonesia?
Wasn't that kicked off by a fuck ton of government officials getting assassinated?
What is the Vietnam War?
A proxy-ish war between the soviet union and the states, you can't pin that one on either side without acknowledging the other.
What is the CIA funding of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge?
Strategic, we were trying to kill commies without getting our own guys hurt so we outsourced to the best commie killers around, other commies.
What is the Syrian Crisis and the Pentagon funding one side, while the CIA funds another?
Going to need source on that one.
What is Conflict Minerals?
see De Beers
What is post French Rwanda and the genocide that followed?
I am aware of Belgian Rwanda and the ethinc genocide that happened between to pre-existing tribes that were already at each others throats.
What is the funding of Afghani Taliban during the USSR's invasion on Afghanistan?
Exactly what it sounds like. We weren't even close to friends with the USSR at the time and we didn't want them expanding their influence into an area known to be rich in vital natural resources.
#14 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
What is the 1954 Guatemalan Coup d'Etat?
This one boils down to greed so I'll give it to you.
What is Koch Industries bankrolling the Nazi oil industry?
business?
What is Allied Powers supporting the Tsarists during the Russian Civil War?
You don't get in the way of a superpower tearing it's self apart. it's wise to move along the process because superpowers have a historical tendency for imperialism.
What is the continued occupation and bombing campaigns against the Palestinian people?
That's israel being israel. they're a bunch of cunts
What are the lies and corporate greed that led to the 2008 crash?
Corruption, you think anyone would try to defend or want corruption in their system? calling that capitalism is like calling theft redistribution of wealth.
What is fracking and the contamination of water sources?
Communist nations don't get gas by fracking?
What is the entire oil industry?
ok you covered that last one with that then. guess electricity is evil too then huh?
What is the lobbying of government by companies like Haliburton, owned by Dick Cheney, to go on with perpetual warfare?
got no complaints with this one, lobbying in such a way that is practically buying laws is evil as hell.
What is Foxconn?
outsourced slave labor due to apple being the biggest corporate cunts on the planet.
What is the private prison industry?
better than gulags.
What is the lobbying of the health insurance industry and big pharma against marijuana and single payer health care?
Dying, yeah both of those things are dying because it's more lucrative all around the other way.
What is NAFTA?
it's going to get abolished very fucking soon. But it did get some solid infrastructure in place.
What is TPP?
Not in effect?
What is PIPA, CISPA, SOPA?
also not in effect?
#11 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Got distracted by a mention back to showing you why your argument is shit.
#10 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Ok I'll refute at least half of this in one go. Greed is part of the human condition, you aren't going to magically produce "the new soviet man" by removing the need to acquire basic necessities for the individual.
What is asbestos?
Literally the best insulation that retarded fire spread at the time.
What is lead contamination in the water of many US cities?
Lead pipes were used around the world because they were easy to work with and cheap to produce.
What are the Drug Cartels?
Are you fucking serious? What is krokodile?
What is police violence in the US?
It's over reported and cops are getting executed by thugs because of it.
What is leaded gasoline?
It wildly increased fuel economy but this is the first legitimate nitpic you have over a product because the problems with it were known at the time.
What is child labour in Asian countries and the Industrial Revolution?
Not exactly sure how those two tie together.
What is the Native American Genocide in North America?
What is germ theory and when did it come about again? aside from the pox blankest propaganda that get's pushed there was a fucking conquest going on.
What is the Irish Potato Famine?
A single potato species was used for an entire god damn country of course shit got fucked.

Totallytito The only time I even mentioned you was right after you blocked me for calling you on your shit once.
stop acting like I crawled into your ass.
#16 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
I'll just go withthe greed one as you seem to think that's the most importante one. The idea of greed being part of the human condition is totally ideological. There's no reason to think that from a sccientifical psychological point of view. Obviously, if you live in a system where competition and richness acumulation are the only way of developing It is probable that you wil be greedy.

The idea of greed as human nature is just a reflex of the material condition of our existance in a concrete economical system, but as It changes, so will people. That is how ideology works, every idea Will try to make itself look natural, It is just a sociological matter, you can check people like Pierre Bourdiou for this idea.
User avatar
#34 - existance (12/06/2016) [-]
Existence*
#18 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
I believe greed is an offshoot of the natural hording behavior one would would have to take to survive the winter given they live somewhere where it freezes over completely or say had the entire gene pool of a species survived an ice age. Without that impulse to amass wealth (food, firewood, etc. That really is all wealth comes down to, extensions of necessities.) humans never would have become what we are today.
#19 - lesotho (12/06/2016) [-]
In a situation like that greed is actually bad. We need other humans to success surviving, we are social animals and it's easier for us to specialize and share. Greed plays a role, of course, but not more than solidarity.
#21 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
Now would you consider that lions share to the chieftain a sign of greedy classicism or a payment to a service?
#22 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
classism damn autocorrect
#35 - casadue (12/06/2016) [-]
but comparing humans to lions doesn't sound like a very good argument, since lion males tend to kill the cubs in order for the females to turn fertile back again.

at this point we should define what is human nature, so it would be possible start an argument.

my counter-argument about your "inherently-part-of-human nature" statement about greed is that the species homo sapiens tend to aggregate in communities and form societies, the greed is a mechanism that tends to disgregate such communities or putting one against the others, so it makes more sense cooperation and collectivism because a single is weaker than the group. then, according to this, we live in a social and cultural system in which the most arrogant, strong and selfish individuals gain power on all the rest rather than the more rational and wise ones, thus leading to bad endings. like hitler in germany and, more relevant example, stalin in russia. or again trump in the us, because we can't deny that a common feature of these three figures is an incredible charismatic attitude that is appreciated by the people.
#36 - tapeboy (23 hours ago) [-]
I wasn't comparing humans to lions, I was using an expression. Greed is an extension of selfishness, selfishness is an extension self preservation. A single small tribe in a vacuum can work completely fine in a communal social system, now there were two tribes competing for the same resources suddenly the communal system goes out the window, sure they may trade from time to time, and they may even be friendly with each other but they will invariably take the well being and self interest of their own tribe above that of their neighbor.

While you are completely correct about humans making communities, you are ignoring the fact that there is never just one community. As long as there is any division(race, creed, sex, IQ, hell even just the music one like is enough to unbalance such a system) between humans there can never be Communism. Communism isn't a system of equality, it's a system that can only work if everyone is exactly equal.
#20 - tapeboy (12/06/2016) [-]
While I wont argue against communal-ism working in tribes it is worth pointing out that those tribes are always autocratic in nature. There is always a chief or pack leader that gets the lions share and that dictates the actions of the tribe to some degree.
While the entire tribe benefits from the communal amassed wealth it is dependent on the leader making the right decisions and the community being completely trustworthy.

Now if we were to expand that community to the size of a small city without changing any of the base rules the city would collapse under the weight of human of the human mind, we simply can't make enough meaning full connections to expand such a system much past 150 individuals.
#51 - >If you can do it in one, it was good enough. Kek,…  [+] (1 reply) 12/03/2016 on What a time to be alive +3
#52 - anon (12/03/2016) [-]
Yes, in every way, it's true. You can do it after quick plane ride - you can do it. Sure, not convienient like with normal people, but gays are exactly that - not normal. It's like demanding to have kosher food in every store. Nope, you're "special", you get it in special places.

Affirmative-action quotas include homosexuality.
#49 - >Wanting to be able to marry your partner in all 50 states,…  [+] (3 replies) 12/03/2016 on What a time to be alive +2
#50 - anon (12/03/2016) [-]
"in all 50 states"

If you can do it in one, it was good enough. Nope. Make more drama.

And you get points for being a homo in hiring, admissions etc. That's the priviledge i'm talking about.
#51 - Carthusia (12/03/2016) [-]
>If you can do it in one, it was good enough.

Kek, literally not, in any way, true. It's not good enough for only one state to recognize same sex marriages if the other 49 don't.

>And you get points for being a homo in hiring, admissions etc.

[substantiate your claim]
#52 - anon (12/03/2016) [-]
Yes, in every way, it's true. You can do it after quick plane ride - you can do it. Sure, not convienient like with normal people, but gays are exactly that - not normal. It's like demanding to have kosher food in every store. Nope, you're "special", you get it in special places.

Affirmative-action quotas include homosexuality.
#47 - >All they wanted was publicity Uh, no...…  [+] (6 replies) 12/03/2016 on What a time to be alive +1
User avatar
#55 - dgurevich (12/03/2016) [-]
Well, they got them now. But they aren't going to shut up any time soon, are they?
#48 - anon (12/03/2016) [-]
Pretty sure it was given to them. Just like to women. Nope, not enough, suddenly equal rights aren't enough, they want privileges. Guess what - you got greedy, you'll lose both now.
#49 - Carthusia (12/03/2016) [-]
>Wanting to be able to marry your partner in all 50 states, in the same way straight people have been entitled to since the drafting of the Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution, is wanting a privilege.

oh, ok...
#50 - anon (12/03/2016) [-]
"in all 50 states"

If you can do it in one, it was good enough. Nope. Make more drama.

And you get points for being a homo in hiring, admissions etc. That's the priviledge i'm talking about.
#51 - Carthusia (12/03/2016) [-]
>If you can do it in one, it was good enough.

Kek, literally not, in any way, true. It's not good enough for only one state to recognize same sex marriages if the other 49 don't.

>And you get points for being a homo in hiring, admissions etc.

[substantiate your claim]
#52 - anon (12/03/2016) [-]
Yes, in every way, it's true. You can do it after quick plane ride - you can do it. Sure, not convienient like with normal people, but gays are exactly that - not normal. It's like demanding to have kosher food in every store. Nope, you're "special", you get it in special places.

Affirmative-action quotas include homosexuality.
#174 - >Wins a semantic argument >M A R X I S M D …  [+] (3 replies) 12/03/2016 on Matter of Fact +4
User avatar
#177 - cockassunited (12/03/2016) [-]
Lol Marxism was disproved a long time ago bubba.
#178 - marxist (12/03/2016) [-]
Whatever you say
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#179 - cockassunited (12/03/2016) [-]
No ty
#339 - >Implying he won't bungle us into WWIII >Implyi…  [+] (2 replies) 12/01/2016 on The Company You Keep +4
#370 - spidahridah (12/01/2016) [-]
>Uhhh Trump said some kinda mean things and was disrespectful towards women so he must be a bloodthirsty warmongering maniac.

Yeah, nah. Trump has advocated nothing but improved international relations and has even clearly stated he wants to put an end to the absurd involvements in the middle east.
Again, try harder.
#378 - Carthusia (12/01/2016) [-]
>Says he'd be willing to go to war with Iran and blow their naval vessels out of the water because one of their crewmen flipped us off

>Not a warmonger