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#7824 - jokeface
Reply 0
(01/30/2013) [-]
Today I had a thought that may or may not bring the theist-vs-atheist war to an end.

I'll start by addressing the atheists. What is the prevailing belief that you have regarding what happens to you when you die? Most of you would say "Nothing, the brain shuts down and our consciousness ends." Fair enough?

Okay, now the theists. Specifically the Judeo-Christian theists. What does Scripture say? If you believe in God/Jesus and worship only Him, you will receive eternal life in heaven. But if you don't, what happens? Scripture says you receive death.

But wait, the body is already dead. You can't die twice, right? Well, clearly God is not talking about the death of the body, but rather the death of the spirit. So I have to wonder: What if "hell" just means your spirit (or, for the sake of this argument, your mind) shuts down forever? Wouldn't that satisfy both the Judeo-Christian hell as well as atheistic ideas about death? Yea, I know, the Bible talks about fire and stuff, but maybe that's just a metaphor for something.

My point is that what if both theists AND atheists are right about the afterlife? The theists are right because they go to heaven, and the atheists are right because their mind/spirit dies.

Thoughts?
#7930 to #7824 - morskoj
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(01/31/2013) [-]
I like that. This doesn't make me angry.

Bravo.
#7855 to #7824 - anon
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(01/30/2013) [-]
why don't you kill yourself to find out
#7915 to #7855 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
There's certain denominations that consider suicide an automatic hell-verdict. I don't really believe that, but I'm not about to test it out.
#7832 to #7824 - darthtomale
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(01/30/2013) [-]
there are many sects of christianity that believe that hell is not a second death. rather the destruction of both the consciousness and the body. this is not a new concept.

your theory ignores that a-theism is just that. the absence (a) of the belief in any superstition (theism). not simply the lack of a belief in an afterlife.
#7865 to #7832 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
I know exactly what atheism is. I was merely referring to the part of atheism that deals with death.
#7917 to #7865 - darthtomale
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(01/31/2013) [-]
im just saying that it was incomplete. sorrow.
#7920 to #7917 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
It's okay. Forgiveness.
#7831 to #7824 - kanade **User deleted account**
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#7866 to #7831 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
Any evidence supporting the existence of God, heaven, etc, must be disregarded or considered false evidence, because it would conflict with the entire basis of faith, which is belief without evidence.
#7869 to #7866 - kanade **User deleted account**
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#7888 to #7869 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
No, the reason you don't take it seriously (please use proper grammar) is because you think that if you can't personally observe it for yourself, that means it can't exist. That is a damn arrogant statement to make. That's like when people who claim there must be intelligent life elsewhere in the universe chastise people who don't believe in aliens, saying it's pretty arrogant to think we're the only life in the entire universe. Which actually brings up a good segue: Do you believe there could be aliens? You'd better not, given your stance on religion.
#7892 to #7888 - kanade **User deleted account**
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#7896 to #7892 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
Well I apologize for misinterpreting your statement. When you say you cannot take religion seriously it sounds very much like you're saying the idea of such a belief is laughable. And that led me to presume you were outright denying the existence of God.
#7899 to #7896 - kanade **User deleted account**
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#7905 to #7899 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
I like to remind people that religion and faith are not the same thing. Religion is a system of doctrines and rituals surrounding a belief, whereas faith is just the belief itself. I myself am not religious, as I no longer go to church and don't partake in many of the rituals described in the Bible, although I do use the Bible for moral guidance and I pray to Jesus. I don't think that's too ridiculous.

When you say it's not rational, I couldn't agree more. Rationality, you see, from a theist's perspective, is merely man trying to understand the universe through he scope of man's own understanding. As a theist, I accept that there is more to life than what could possibly be understood by man, and so I put faith in a higher power to understand that stuff for me. We're not all-powerful, and we'll never know everything. With that being the case, I actually find it kind of silly that so many people seem to think otherwise.
#7912 to #7905 - kanade **User deleted account**
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#7918 to #7912 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
This is a scenario I've had floating around my head for some time.

If I was given an envelope containing the absolute truth about the universe, creation, our past, our future, etc, and I had the opportunity to open it and reveal this absolute truth to the world, I'd destroy it without even opening it. Because no matter who's right, that kind of knowledge would only create chaos. Chaos on a much greater scale than what the world sees today. Either existential nihilism resulting in widespread violence and death, or a rehashing of the Crusades, resulting in, again, widespread violence and death.
#7894 to #7892 - kanade **User deleted account**
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#7830 to #7824 - noblexfenrir
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(01/30/2013) [-]
This is implying the only thing atheists and theists disagree on is what happens after you die.
#7867 to #7830 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
No, there's more they disagree on, but death is the only thing that matters. Aside from that there's no point in arguing about anything else related to the existence of God, heaven, etc.
#7994 to #7867 - noblexfenrir
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(01/31/2013) [-]
No, death doesn't matter in the slightest. Once you are dead, you're done, you can't help anyone else in the world, you can't further our knowledge on any topics, you can't discover new ideas in science, etc etc etc. Death is the one thing that DOESN'T matter because it's going to happen either way, no, reality is what matters with the people who live on past you.
#8001 to #7994 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
What I mean is, death is the only thing that gets impacted (from our point of view) by what our beliefs are. I understand that you don't see it that way, I'm just saying that's how we see it.
#8031 to #8001 - noblexfenrir
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(01/31/2013) [-]
How? Death is the same no matter what you believe, whatever turns out to happen will happen whether you are an atheist, christian, muslim, paganist, wiccan, etc etc etc.

#8044 to #8031 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
Not according to our beliefs. Based on the Christian premise that your afterlife is faith-based, if you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior you go to heaven, and if not, you go to hell. Therefore, atheists, pagans, Muslim, Wiccans, etc, will all go to hell because they reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah.
#8046 to #8044 - noblexfenrir
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(01/31/2013) [-]
You know what I meant, I was talking about if something is going to happen then it's not going to change (Not heaven or hell, grand scheme wise) simply because you believe something different. To be honest there is no reason not to believe we just rot in the ground after we're dead.
#8047 to #8046 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
Oh, well yea, I agree. Just because someone doesn't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
#7825 to #7824 - kingnarnode
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(01/30/2013) [-]
well, as an atheist I am inclined to think what you're saying is untrue. However, I will pretend that yes, what you're saying is true. I don't know about you, but I would gladly accept my spirit or mind or whatever, to be shut down. Why you ask? Well simply eternity is an unfathomable amount of time, and I'm pretty sure I would go insane one way or another.

Now your theory as to this ending the "war", I highly doubt it. This really doesn't change anything, atheists will just think it's bullshit.
#7826 to #7825 - jokeface
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(01/30/2013) [-]
What if you died and found yourself at the pearly gates and Jesus was there and He was like, "JokeFace was wrong, your spirit doesn't die, it goes into a fiery abyss to burn and suffer for all eternity. But you have one last chance to ask me for redemption and I'll save you from that and let you into heaven." How would you respond?
#7834 to #7826 - zlamousu
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(01/30/2013) [-]
What will YOU say when you are stood before allah, and he sends you to be punished forever?
Accepet allah before its too late, you KNOW that the koran is the most accurate book ever written, but you have been mislead.
#7871 to #7834 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
Isn't Allah just another name for the same God depicted in Judeo-Christian philosophy? If that's the case I'll gladly accept Him. But I'll pass on accepting the Qur'an as my holy book. The Bible is enough for me, thanks.
#7872 to #7871 - jokeface
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(01/31/2013) [-]
Also, you shouldn't troll. trolls don't get into heaven.
#7868 to #7834 - jokeface
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#7827 to #7826 - kingnarnode
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(01/30/2013) [-]
well an eternity in heaven would sure beat an eternity in hell
#7828 to #7827 - jokeface
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(01/30/2013) [-]
Word.