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Latest users (2): akkere, heyhowsitgoin, anonymous(13).
What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
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#3961 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4129 to #3961 - oxan (07/14/2012) [-]
A much better solution is replace the death penalty, or the penalty for the worst crimes (such as murder) with life in solitary confinement.

A 1x1 metre concrete cell with a bucket. The inmate will never be able to fully stretch out, and will have no comfort, as well as minimal contact with other humans. Let them suffer.

When you take away someone's rights through something like murder, you yourself should have your rights taken away.

Further, I don't like the idea of having people fight each other to the death like described below. It will end in us glorifying the winners. You don't want to glorify people who are meant to be punished.
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#4133 to #4129 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4134 to #4133 - oxan (07/14/2012) [-]
A gladiatorial would be great for the government to raise revenue, sure, but it glorifies the fighters, which is unacceptable. They should be considered scum.

And yeah, it's one of my more evil thoughts ^.^

Plus, it's cheaper than death row.
User avatar #4103 to #3961 - IrishAssassin (07/13/2012) [-]
We should just put anyone who's in prison for life into a gladiator/Hunger Games type thing, let them fight for their lives. Then we film it and put it on TV!
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#4108 to #4103 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4117 to #4108 - IrishAssassin (07/14/2012) [-]
It does seem that way, but it is a good idea. That way, we only have to feed and house the winner, and only between fights.
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#4118 to #4117 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4119 to #4118 - IrishAssassin (07/14/2012) [-]
I would personally pay to watch prisoners fight to the death
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#4089 to #3961 - trailrated (07/13/2012) [-]
Yes. If you purposely take a life (not self defense) you should be killed. It's that easy.
User avatar #4125 to #4089 - airguitar (07/14/2012) [-]
What if 2 years after the alleged murder they found out some of the evidence was fraudulent and the person was actually innocent?
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#4093 to #4089 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4070 to #3961 - demetzgermeister (07/13/2012) [-]
could you imagine how much less crime we would have if we started hanging people for robbery and other crimes again?
or started shooting gang members on sight?
too bad that wont happen.
but rape and murder should get death.
its a waste of money to keep people in prison for life.
hell every life sentence should get death. life in prison is an extended death penalty anyway right?
User avatar #4076 to #4070 - unhappyspanners (07/13/2012) [-]
What about people who are wrongly convicted and are given the death penalty for a crime they didn't commit?
User avatar #4078 to #4076 - demetzgermeister (07/13/2012) [-]
to fucking bad.
you still sit a few years on death row.
how many times does that actually happen anyway?
User avatar #4079 to #4078 - unhappyspanners (07/13/2012) [-]
More often then it should. I don't think you should be so swift to proclaim the death penalty...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18091903
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15013860
They are just two cases where the executed was more than likely an innocent man.
User avatar #4082 to #4079 - demetzgermeister (07/13/2012) [-]
trusting british news for a case in texas.
User avatar #4094 to #4082 - unhappyspanners (07/13/2012) [-]
It's an international broadcasting network. It's neutral and delivers all the facts, unlike the biased American news stations.
#4033 to #3961 - kingpongthedon (07/12/2012) [-]
From a purely philosophical point of view (ie. not factoring economic costs), I'm all for it. Not for justice, but it's my personal preference. People say the DP is inhumane, but in my mind it's not nearly as bad as prison. There's this place filled with the worst of humanity, serial killers, baby rapists, you name it, there here, and then there's "good" people who are constantly watching me, saying what I can and can't do, when and where I can, when to get up, when to go to sleep, when to piss/shower/shit/shave/etc. and if I don't I'll get a beating. It's torturous, hellish, and I couldn't imagine anything worse. And best of all, I'm going to live like this until I die, which will either take way too goddamn long given the circumstances or will be a messy, violent affair at the hands of some other inmate. Realistically, I'd do it myself, but I'm considering that a self-imposed death penalty.

Or you can take me out back and put a bullet in my heart and it's over. No fear, nothing, just lights out and I'm gone. There's no doubt in my mind that an execution is far more humane than life imprisonment.
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#4036 to #4033 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
#4037 to #4036 - kingpongthedon (07/12/2012) [-]
Not really, I just didn't want to go into something that's already been expounded upon.

I think access to it should be much easier, but the current steps in place just make it impractical. Still, I can only speak for myself, but I'd off myself first chance if I ever got more than 15 w/o parole. The person going in isn't going to be remotely the same as the person coming out, to me it's already a death sentence anyway.

This is of course coming from the American perspective of the penal system. Don't know enough about other countries' to say anything. But either way, there needs to be penal system reform, just not sure which way it should go.
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#4019 to #3961 - anonymous (07/12/2012) [-]
The death sentence should be reserved for the worst. If it was a single murder pulled off with a simple gunshot, a life sentence would be more appropriate. But if the criminal is a serial killer or performed a more heinous murder (like brutally raping and killing a child, or slowly cutting a person up and letting the victim bleed to death), then there's no reason to let that person live. People who do that clearly get a kick out of causing suffering and are beyond any hope of rehabilitation.
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#4022 to #4019 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
#4004 to #3961 - repostsrepost (07/12/2012) [-]
I have no issue with it in principle, but the way its currently done, people who are being executed end up serving more than a life sentence anyway and its a lot more expensive considering all the legal paperwork and appeals. If it was just trial -> conviction-> execution, then it would be less costly and might act as a crime deterrent. But the way its currently done, it not worth the trouble.
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User avatar #3982 to #3961 - szymonf (07/12/2012) [-]
it is more expensive,
who has the right to decide who lives/dies,
no chance to be released when new information arises
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#3984 to #3982 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3995 to #3984 - szymonf (07/12/2012) [-]
it costs significantly more to execute a person humanly then it is to keep them in prison
You need to login to view this link
It also does not act as a deterrent.
States with the death penalty have a higher crime rate then others.


Look at Norway, the country has quite possibly the lowest crime rates and the lowest re-offending rates in the world (ignore a homicidal maniac) and their prisons focus more on rehabilitation then on punishment
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18121914 (article about Bastoy)
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#3998 to #3995 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4000 to #3998 - szymonf (07/12/2012) [-]
AND IT IS SO MUCH CHEAPER
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#4001 to #4000 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4003 to #4001 - szymonf (07/12/2012) [-]
so did i convert you to the bright side?

our cookies taste better
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#4005 to #4003 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4008 to #4005 - szymonf (07/12/2012) [-]
can i ask why you are for it?
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#4009 to #4008 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4013 to #4009 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
Killing someone is wrong. Always. Just because you killed someone does not make you being killed right.

It's the same way for rape. Just because you rape someone and go to jail does not make you going to jail and being raped "justice". In human nature there are things that are always wrong, no matter what. Having your life ended is one of them.
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#4015 to #4013 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4017 to #4015 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
I only responded like that because I don't think you can "cancel morals out" like that. Like a murder and a murder doesn't bring you to 0, it brings you to -2 morally. However I can understand how the family would feel.

I actually at one point was for the death penalty until I heard how much it costed and such. However, now that I realize how scary the government actually is, I would never allow them the power to choose life or death. Governments as a whole already have a strict monopoly on violence, they are the only institution that proclaim they have the right to use violence to make you pay taxes, obey laws, and they can limit your rights as well using violence. This is widely accepted by society as well.
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#4020 to #4017 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4023 to #4020 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
I'm not saying the government should not be able to limit prisoner's rights, I was simply pointing out that government has the power to limit everyone's rights with violence, even if this decision is simply made by self-interested "representatives".

I am pretty sure this is not the quote you are talking about, but there was one from 'V for Vendetta' that had a similar gist:

"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
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#4027 to #4023 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4029 to #4027 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
One example of this is if you refuse to pay taxes. It's almost similar to slavery in this sense because your master is only letting you live here if you benefit him monetarily, if you don't pay him he uses violence on you. I know the counter-arguments to this, I just simply wanted to point out an interesting perspective. You have had quite an interesting thread going on here.

And yeah, I figured the quote you were talking about had more to it. I want to watch the movie now though XD.
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#4030 to #4029 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4031 to #4030 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
I have an essay due Monday with a similar prompt to this theme. When I posted it on this board I didn't know it would still be the prompt the professor uses, give me your opinion if you wish. A big reason he made this prompt is to get people thinking:

funnyjunk.com/politics/1506#1506

And yeah, it's actually my favorite movie of all time, it just has so many awesome quotes (like the government one).
User avatar #3965 to #3961 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
i'm not saying the death penalty is justice, but when people sit around a killer of their loved ones to see him die, that's not justice, that's revenge.

I'm saying the distinction must never even come close to being blurry, and the death penalty makes it too fuzzy
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#3967 to #3965 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3968 to #3967 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
yeah, and letting the law in the hands of a desperate, traumatized person is exactly one of the worst things to do, no?
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#3969 to #3968 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3971 to #3969 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
Yeah, and the law must be like Ulysse's mast, keeping that individual from acting once he loses his lucidity.

But on a personal level, i just feel wrong condemning someone to death for a particular facet of his psyche. It gets too complex to just erase them and say it's justice.
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#3974 to #3971 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3975 to #3974 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
yeah, maximum isolation, maybe? i don't have it all thought out, i'm only 19, though
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#3976 to #3975 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3988 to #3976 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
I have actually hurd that the money it costs to put someone into the trials for putting them on death row, along with the cost of the lethal injections is actually MORE on average than the cost of keeping them in jail. That's one of the main reasons I don't support the death penalty personally (also, verdicts can be mistaken- the decision to kill someone can not be undone).
User avatar #4024 to #3988 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
Wow I spelled it as "hurd"...

*Facepalm*
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#3990 to #3988 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #4002 to #3990 - airguitar (07/12/2012) [-]
I am an economics major, one of the first thing I look at is how this effects the tax payers. I'm not just saying it is my opinion that it costs less, I am saying there have been numerous studies about it. Personally, I got my information from a girl in one of my classes who had researched the topic. However, here are some links:

You need to login to view this link m

www.aclunc.org/issues/criminal_justice/death_penalty/frequently_asked_questions_about_the_costs_of_california's_death_penalty.shtml

(See the first sentence and onward if you like)

http://teacher.scholastic.com/scholasticnews/indepth/upfront/features/index.asp? article=f042009_Death

I can find scholarly articles for you also if you wish. Also, I actually have a bigger problem with something else you said, to the anon's two points below- the 2nd one is more valid. I am a libertarian and so I oppose the government having more power. The federal government/ court systems having the ability to kill people is akin to a fascist state that decides whether its people live. I am not trying to directly compare the US or any other country to a dictatorial state, however I do not support the government having the enormous power of ending people's lives.

Lastly, regarding the error of a trial. There's a difference between losing a few years in prison and losing your life- one is 100% not reversible.
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#4006 to #4002 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3977 to #3976 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
i'm not very pragmatic and i admit i get a bit pseudo-philosophical, but can money REALLY be the deciding factor?
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#3978 to #3977 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3981 to #3978 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
Agh, my puny brain can't compute!

Coin toss? That seems right, doesn't it?
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#3983 to #3981 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3985 to #3983 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
"One thing about chaos...It's fair." -I forgot who
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#3987 to #3985 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3992 to #3987 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
Right, yeah, so there you go, from a killer maniac himself. So ironic. So tragically ironic.
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#3993 to #3992 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #3994 to #3993 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
So instead of a killer dude flipping a coin to let you live or die -Two Face appearing in the same movie too, what are the odds- you got a federal judge doing it.

Jesus, it makes you nihilistic thinking about it.
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#3996 to #3994 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
#3997 to #3996 - herecomesjohnny (07/12/2012) [-]
well, to put it simply, by thinking about what to do with murderers i ended up having the same solution as two batman villains when they think about what to do with their victims.

It just turns your head upside down..
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#3999 to #3997 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
#3962 to #3961 - anonymous (07/12/2012) [-]
I don't believe in the death penalty for 2 main reasons.
1. The death penalty is used to exhibit how killing is wrong, by killing people.
2. I don't believe any government should have power over life and death.
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#3963 to #3962 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
#3964 to #3963 - anonymous (07/12/2012) [-]
No, I think that we should try to help people who commit a crime like murder with therapy, and once we are sure they are no longer a threat to society, release them. If they commit a horrible crime like blow up a school filled with children, then they should be given the option of life in prison or the death penalty. Then after every year in prison, they should be given the option again.
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#3966 to #3964 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
#3972 to #3966 - anonymous (07/12/2012) [-]
Besides, with all the legal fees included in a death sentence, it is actually cheaper to imprison someone for the rest of their life than to kill them.
#3970 to #3966 - anonymous (07/12/2012) [-]
Like I said, give them therapy until we are sure they're no longer a threat to society. I'm not saying that we release anyone who is beyond therapy, I'm saying we have to try.
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#3973 to #3970 - Sunset has deleted their comment [-]
#3979 to #3973 - anonymous (07/12/2012) [-]
I don't think it's better to kill them off if they don't choose death over imprisonment, especially seeing as imprisonment is cheaper for the taxpayer. Could you expand on that?
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