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User avatar #15563 - Yardie (12/12/2012) [-]
So the trade deficit numbers finally came out a few days ago... Exports fell and the deficit jumped. We're now at a 6 month high.

Any Liberal/Keynesian want to explain on behalf of your media where all of our exports are? Because from what I understand the Liberal Media has been stating that industry has been coming back because of Obama's policies. I wasn't seeing it firsthand, and now I'm not seeing it through the numbers. But it's OK because the average American doesn't give a shit about economics or how these horrible policies are effecting the economy, so the Liberal Media can just continue to avoid talking about it and none will be the wiser.
#15565 to #15563 - largenintimidating (12/12/2012) [-]
Exports have likely fallen because Europe continues to assfuck itself financially.

Companies moving some production back to the States after shipping it out of there en masse isn't going to reduce imports or increase exports enough to make up for a large drop in demand for exports.
User avatar #15566 to #15565 - Yardie (12/12/2012) [-]
Well maybe we shouldn't put all of our economic faith in all of these Socialist countries. But regardless, industry is dying out dude. We have too many regulations, too many taxes, too much socialism for industry to function. I mean employment in manufacturing jobs has been hemorrhaging these past years. Isn't that enough evidence that big government is hampering productivity? And where are all these factories anyways if our production is booming apparently. Everybody outsources their manufacturing, and there's a shitload of outsourcing in every other market out there. I agree that it's probably too early to say that companies aren't pulling back to the States, but I still see no evidence of it at all, so isn't it too early to say that they are?
#15567 to #15566 - largenintimidating (12/12/2012) [-]
You know, we had stronger regulations and unions between the mid-30s and the late 70s-early 80s than at any other time in US history. They weren't exactly bad times after 1940. In fact, they were the best times economically in US history.

The problem showed up when the developing world opened up, and US manufacturers found easily exploitable, dirt-cheap labor there. But now manufacturing jobs are returning to the US, increasing for the first time since 1998, because the workers in China are demanding more wages and regulations, and manufacturing in the country your products are designed and mostly sold is proving to be more efficient and cheaper than over in the developed world.

Of course, this trend might be reversed, and probably will be, when India and Africa really get in on the dirt-cheap labor business. Then the costs of outsourcing will again be less than the costs of insourcing.

Also, "industry dying out?" Dude. Industry is just being moved to where its cheapest, because you always need industry. Hell, you'll need more of it as the Chinese start to demand fridges with ice-machines.

For US industry and European industry, the challenge is to be more efficient long enough for wages in the developed world to rise high enough that producing for the same or slightly higher wages will be cheaper and more efficient in-country just by removing transport cost.
User avatar #15580 to #15567 - Yardie (12/13/2012) [-]
When we opened up trade we allowed for competition that our regulations couldn't compete with, I know this and agree. And I haven't seen any real growth in manufacturing jobs. I've seen mostly losses and those created by stimulus, which are short term jobs created with fake money for political purposes. Also I've never thought about a wage balance in the future. I'm skeptical about timing on it though because minimum wage and benefit laws screw with the wages and employment in an economy. Economies have been so distorted that I think that economies will continue collapsing and recuperating endlessly before any balance is reached unless free markets take over.

But strong regulations do distort markets, even without outside competition. Labor Unions have corruption, government has corruption, and wealth is lost because of that. The more Government there is in the economy, the more entropy there is in the economy in my opinion. I think the free market can function better without government regulation as well, as people don't have to jump through hoops just to do business.
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