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User avatar #8 - raggedy (07/12/2013) [-]
So I'm probably going to get thumbed down for this, but I feel like I have to say something.

The devil did not "give" Adam and Eve the power of free thinking, and they weren't punished just for eating the fruit. Lucifer, chained up in hell suffering eternal torment, wanted Adam and Eve to suffer along with him, and so he came in the shape of a serpent and convinced Eve to disobey direct orders from God and take fruit from the tree of knowledge. We have no way of knowing if mankind was ever going to be granted this gift anyway, or if we would have happily stayed in our garden not knowing true evil and not having the burden of knowledge on our shoulders.

The fact is, Lucifer condemned mankind to torment so he would not suffer alone. Adam and Eve, believe it or not, were told that eating the fruit would have dire consequences.

That's how the story goes, anyway. You don't have to believe in God, but at least now maybe you understand the mythology a little bit better.

Source; schooled for about 3 years in mythology, philosophy, and religion before pursuing a career in psychology.
#83 to #8 - fingercramp (07/13/2013) [-]
In case no one wanted to read all of the posts below, let me sum it up here
In case no one wanted to read all of the posts below, let me sum it up here
User avatar #81 to #8 - stimtheone ONLINE (07/13/2013) [-]
Hmmm... that is a good argument.

2 points for christianity.

Now where did I put that scoreboard... ah.
Score so far:
Christianity: 67
Judaism: 6
Buddhism: 93
Satanism: 66
Atheism: 148
Islaminsm: -74
#84 to #81 - kompleteciller (07/13/2013) [-]
that seems about right
#78 to #8 - yumyumtittysucker (07/13/2013) [-]

Gtfo, try and sound smart but doesnt even theology.
***** still bein worshiped dick brains
User avatar #72 to #8 - greenstrongworld (07/13/2013) [-]
So in short, Lucifer's goal was to make us suffer as much as he did? So is our "life" the suffering that he goes through?
User avatar #64 to #8 - Fgner (07/13/2013) [-]
Okay before I start, some background:
> I used to be pretty religious myself. Currently I'm a "be a good person"-ist.
> My last major girlfriend was Jewish - her family made me learn Hebrew and Greek and study original texts to "prove myself" or some **** .
> Even as an atheist I find religious the most interesting part of human sociality and psychology and have conversations about it quite often with my parents' pastor.
> I don't hate religion. I just don't believe it. You have every right to believe whatever you want as long as you aren't a dick.

1) Lucifer isn't actually Satan. Lucifer is the anti-christ, a later character. He's the "Morning Star". This is just something I notice people making the mistake of quite often. So Lucifer did nothing.

2) Actually, Satan isn't burning in Hell currently (unless you take the depiction that we are currently in the Millennium of Christ - instead of the depiction that that will begin on the Rapture). In fact, there isn't such a thing as Hell. Not a single mention is made in the Torah nor Bible. the Torah always refers to immediate consequences in current life, and the Bible refers once to a valley of thieves - which is an actual city, not a metaphor; and then to that pit of burning sulfur for the Millennium of Christ (only Satan) then after the final battle (Satan and his followers for the final battle [note that this does not say sinners]). The God of the Jews wasn't metaphysical like this - everything focused on life. The God of the Christians wasn't cruel like this - everything focused on kindness (for the most part and in context). So Lucifer isn't chained in torment during Adam & Eve time. He's pretty much free to roam as he wants. Depending again on the interpretation of the millennium of Christ, still is to this day. And all the sinners that die? Actually - most likely heaven. Remember, their price was paid with Jesus, whether they believe it or not. Apparently God isn't all that evil.
User avatar #68 to #64 - Fgner (07/13/2013) [-]
3) Satan is a weird character. We know he was an angel, and we also know he is a huge dragon (yes, I'm not making this up - then again the angels we see described are also... strange...). We know that he, in fact, is not cast out of heaven until Revelations (actually, maybe Isaiah - and some claim it's implicit that he was cast out after the deal with Eden. But before Eden's confrontation he was NOT cast out - he was still an angel in heaven. We know that for sure... But explicitly not until Revelations after he declares war and tries to usurp God's throne. Although God makes references to all the times Satan claimed he would and such in numerous locations. Then again, he makes direct conversation, so is it that hard to believe they still chill side-by-side?). So he was in no way suffering.

But he did hate humans. Merely because they were weak and pathetic and stupid compared to angels and God, and he felt the deserved nothing like God gave them. And he didn't exactly like not being God - "I will exalt my throne above the stars of God".

4) Humans had knowledge. We weren't brain washed or anything. We had sex, we enjoyed living, we thought and created. Adam and Eve also obviously knew about sin in some sense. They knew that the tree was bad, that eating of the fruit was sin. Therefore they knew sin. The tree gave them the mentality of sin. The tree taught to lie to escape punishment, to be embarrassed of our nakedness, to hurt others in anger, to want more than we needed, etc. It didn't teach us about being bad, it taught us to be bad. How and why, not what. Even if we didn't have the fruit, we would have continued to build and become what we are today, in fact we would have been much more than we are today.

Hopefully I helped cleared some stuff up. Knowing the languages makes translation errors disappear and the corruptions caused by things such as the Council of Nisaea vanish. For instance Hell - the most overstated non-existant part of the religion!
User avatar #48 to #8 - captainfuckitall (07/13/2013) [-]
So Satan condemned mankind to torment, but the god who is perfect in every way (and is also all knowing and powerful) is totally fine, off the hook, and is under no obligation to his creation? They were told not to eat the fruit, but you can do no wrong if you do not know what wrong is; god punishing them for eating the apple is no different than punishing a child for doing something it didn't know was bad, not to mention if I was an all powerful and all knowing parent, I would try to educate my kids FIRST and then always prevent that type of crap from happening so, you know, they didn't have to suffer for eternity totally needlessly

I respect your education and appreciate whatever contribution you made to your field, but until you've ALSO taken classes on the other side of the spectrum (Satanism, Wicca, Paganism, those types of things), I'm afraid I simply cannot respect your opinion as it is awfully one sided
User avatar #58 to #48 - raggedy (07/13/2013) [-]
The other religions I've studied (Which include Ancient mythologies, Islam, and Hindu) didn't really apply to the situation.
User avatar #56 to #48 - raggedy (07/13/2013) [-]
As I stated above, Adam and Eve WERE aware that there would be terrible consequences for going against the will of God. But you're right, It did come off a little one sided. I was just trying to clarify on this particular myth so I didn't think it was necessary to delve in any deeper than I did.
#42 to #8 - justthisonepost **User deleted account** (07/13/2013) [-]
"Hey Adam, look at this fruit"

"No eve, we can't eat that fruit or else we will die"

"What does it mean to die?"

It's hard to be afraid of a consequence you don't understand

User avatar #28 to #8 - siridontcare (07/13/2013) [-]
"we would have happily stayed in our garden not knowing" You can say the same about someone in a coma. To me not knowing is a hell all on its own. Ignorance = false bliss.
User avatar #30 to #28 - zorororonoa (07/13/2013) [-]
You say that now, but if we lived a life before the apple was eaten, we wouldn't know that we were ignorant. Everything we saw we would think to be the only things out there. Pretty much, you wouldn't think it was a hell if we continued to live in that state.
User avatar #49 to #30 - ambiguous **User deleted account** (07/13/2013) [-]
The Truman Show
User avatar #39 to #30 - siridontcare (07/13/2013) [-]
just wondering around a garden eating fruits and naming animals? Hince why I used "false bliss" To me its the same as a gold fish inside a small bowl. Its as happy as can be but I will never envy it.
#21 to #8 - akimbobears (07/13/2013) [-]
the snake wasn't satan.
Also Lucifer isn't a name for Satan.

Both of these are religious traditions that have replaced other characters with Satan.
User avatar #32 to #21 - raggedy (07/13/2013) [-]
I would really like to know your source that states Lucifer isn't the devil's given name, because as I mentioned above, I studied this subject and other religions for about three years. If there's another source out there claiming otherwise, I'd be interested in it.
#63 to #32 - anon (07/13/2013) [-]
Religion is a very difficult thing to study. Each Priest has a specific understanding of the Bible and when that Priest is to step down, he personally teaches the man that will succeed him. When somebody develops a new understanding/opinion of the Bible a new church is formed, preaching that belief. If somebody attending the church questions the interpretation of what they're being preached, they are removed from the church. The only way to properly study religion is by an unbiased point of view. By the sounds of it, you've been taught a very one sided look on the interpretation of the Bible, a book of riddles, really.
#52 to #32 - akimbobears (07/13/2013) [-]
Well the name Lucifer means "Morning Star" which comes from Isaiah 14. That's also where the idea that satan was cast out of heaven comes from.
User avatar #9 to #8 - raggedy (07/12/2013) [-]
In before, "It's a joke, dickhead"
User avatar #15 to #9 - stealthunicorn (07/12/2013) [-]
Hey dickhead it's a...
Well damn. There goes my evening.
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