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#9 - admiralshepard (05/10/2013) [-]
It always amazes me when people say things like "it's all part of god's plan," or "god works in mysterious ways." History has proven that if there is a god, and we really are his so called "children" that god is a cruel and sadistic being. If "god works inside every one of us" then he is responsible for every single abominable act the human race has ever endured.    
If there is a higher power with the ability to manipulate the world at his will, and if he's listening now, I'd just like to tell that bastard; that you, are one sick minded 			******		. We're not your play things, we're not your toys, and if that's how you choose to view us, then I want no part of whatever grand scheme you have in mind.    
In other words, god, if you're up there, would you kindly   
It always amazes me when people say things like "it's all part of god's plan," or "god works in mysterious ways." History has proven that if there is a god, and we really are his so called "children" that god is a cruel and sadistic being. If "god works inside every one of us" then he is responsible for every single abominable act the human race has ever endured.

If there is a higher power with the ability to manipulate the world at his will, and if he's listening now, I'd just like to tell that bastard; that you, are one sick minded ****** . We're not your play things, we're not your toys, and if that's how you choose to view us, then I want no part of whatever grand scheme you have in mind.

In other words, god, if you're up there, would you kindly
User avatar #611 to #9 - servantd (05/11/2013) [-]
Consider the following: Free will.
#589 to #9 - roykynx (05/11/2013) [-]
Wonderful, you've summed up monotheistic religions; now would care to post about eastern religions? If so, you might learn from eastern religions that "God" is not a judgmental figure in the sky waving a magic wand; rather, "God" is another word for existence, or everything.

However, you're almost spot on with monotheistic religions; so now advance yourself to learning philosophy to turn your hatred into positive thinking
User avatar #570 to #9 - kingofthetrolls (05/11/2013) [-]
look man, I'm a Christian and I agree, sometimes it is messed up. But as a Christian I have faith, and that faith is what drives me. I know some people think Christians are annoying little ***** , but I think I'm pretty chill. I think that the reason God does these bad things that happen help me in the long run. Some people don't believe in my views, like you, and I completely understand where you are coming from. But it's faith that drives me and that is what I think is the beauty of any religion.

Sorry. Way too long of a rant there, but I just wanted to say that. Have a good night FunnyJunk users everywhere :)
User avatar #603 to #570 - alyosha (05/11/2013) [-]
Alright, if we're all voicing opinions in a totally chill manner, then my turn.

I was recently approached at my college by a wandering Jehovah's Witness who wouldn't leave me alone despite me politely telling him I'm not religious, and eventually I got fed up with it and dropped the nice-guy routine. My central problem with people like that, who literally cannot fathom an existence in which they are even slightly incorrect, is that their whole logic for God's functioning makes no sense.

I had a final exam the other day, and right before I left my house something told me "look behind you" and, lo and behold, there was my bookbag with the various textbooks I wanted to sell back. I almost left without it. Witness says this was clear evidence supporting God "looking out for you!" and I should be grateful for the intervention.

Nevermind that I had another final the next day, so I could have just sold the books then, and an omniscient being would also have known ahead of time that the bookstore was going to pay peanuts anyway and I'd end up just deciding to keep everything. According to people like the idiot I talked to, this same awesome being, with infinite goodness and power, chose to utterly ignore the suffering of tens of millions of children in Africa who are going to die of AIDS before their tenth birthday so that little old atheist me could not sell his books back a day ahead of schedule. No good comes out of AIDS epidemics in Africa. And those problems could be FIXED TOMORROW by an omnipotent being that genuinely cared for the people it spawned on the planet it created. Nope! Gotta go intervene Ally's adventures in First World Economics as he struggles to sell textbooks to a university bookstore.

Religious people of that persuasion, who remain wholly convinced that "God's plan" is all-good in nature despite mountains of plainly visible evidence to the contrary, annoy the absolute **** out of me.
User avatar #622 to #603 - kingofthetrolls (05/11/2013) [-]
Yeah I do understand, but for me I know it's not all good and the world is a ****** up place, more now than ever. But I also just his Him as an example to live my life, in total respect and love for others as much as I can. It might seem weird, or whatever you may think, but it's what I have said I would do.

But i do hate the people who think it's all puppies and rainbows and God makes it all happiness and all of that stuff. I think the hardest trials in life are when we see the best of people, whether or not they believe or don't.

Anyway, that's just my viewpoint. :)
#641 to #622 - roykynx (05/12/2013) [-]
That's much better!!!; so for you "God" is a standard of living that encompasses the theoretical perfect version of yourself. Now that is a good religious belief! Don't label yourself as a Christian, because you're obviously better than that.
#590 to #570 - roykynx (05/11/2013) [-]
You obviously only understand Western Religions.. broaden your knowledge before you swear yourself to a broken guide
User avatar #591 to #590 - kingofthetrolls (05/11/2013) [-]
Maybe i do, but it's my belief and it's something other people can't change. Why criticize? I was voicing my opinion along with anyone else.
#592 to #591 - roykynx (05/11/2013) [-]
Not criticizing, that's the problem with Christians; they assume anything that goes against their beliefs as an attack

(or my fav "the devil working his magic". )

----- That is criticism

It's easy to see when someone hasn't taken advantage of the existence of other religions. Learn more about them, and you might find an even greater supernatural belief system, that encompasses all the grand things from each religion.

User avatar #593 to #592 - kingofthetrolls (05/11/2013) [-]
I didn't view it as an attack at all, my apologies. And my goal is to learn about every major religion possible, travel to the Holy Land, etc. However, I'm a little far away from that goal right now. But thank you anyway, sir. :)
User avatar #568 to #9 - vatra (05/11/2013) [-]
It's simple. Free will. Manipulating things so that individuals that believe are safe technically removes free will, as who would go against a being that will keep you safe as long as you believe in it? I personally would hate a god that decided everything for me.
#538 to #9 - bariummanisback (05/11/2013) [-]
That was absolutely beautiful.
That was absolutely beautiful.
User avatar #516 to #9 - cabbagemayhem (05/11/2013) [-]
You remind me of my dog who got mad at me for not giving her the chocolate I was eating, and she chewed up my trash. I didn't get too mad at her because she didn't know it would kill her, but I gave the chicken skins to the other dog that night.
#505 to #9 - ryander (05/11/2013) [-]
you reminded me of this.
#501 to #9 - anon (05/11/2013) [-]
But if he controls everything, then that would mean he made you say that thus your a part of the grand scheme, or, you could just well go ahead and say, if there is a god i dont follow him, rather than make yourself look stupid.
#498 to #9 - italianchef (05/11/2013) [-]
mfw ive been in so many religious debates on the internet i know not to join this *********
User avatar #479 to #9 - armoredfish (05/11/2013) [-]
I bet when this guy sees all the notifications he's getting he's gonna **** a brick
#471 to #9 - anon (05/11/2013) [-]
Well now, God gives you a damn brain to use. If you are not able to think before you act and willingly hurt other people then there is not much God can do, now can he. Since he doesn't interfere with our lifes in a direct way anymore.

So yeah, all that cruelty we have on this planet is made by men who are abusing their God-given power (i.e. their brain, their muscles and whatnot).

Yeah, God created everything, he created humans to think for themselves. He gave us the power of choice, to choose between right and wrong. Now if you go ahead and do the wrong thing, and then suddenly everyone blames God for it, doesn't that seem kind of wrong to you either?

In other words, by saying that God made (and let) this happen (bad things created by human choice) then you just push the mistake to someone of who you believe doesn't exist in the first place....which contradicts your own statement right there.
#450 to #9 - anon (05/11/2013) [-]
He's also responsible for all the kind, caring and selfless gestures people have made. It's weird eh? looking at both sides of a coin.
User avatar #435 to #9 - obliquezombie (05/10/2013) [-]
The idea of God, assuming there is one, is that he doesn't have free will. We make our own decisions, he just sorta gives us other options.

Or at least, that's what Bruce Almighty said to me.

If anyone really believes God controls everything, they aren't a believer, they're in denial of their own actions.
#406 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
#387 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
inb4 *********
#377 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Says the ******* brony
#384 to #377 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
User avatar #376 to #9 - brettyoke (05/10/2013) [-]
There's people who think that God control every move and every action of people, like what you're assuming there, and that he screws with everyone and makes some parts of life hell.

I believe that God leaves us well enough alone for the most part, as to let the natural course of humanity take place. I believe you should stick to this as well, rather than what you wrote about. If God did control our every action, would he have let you write that?
#369 to #9 - lolzordz (05/10/2013) [-]
its not as if pain and suffering is the only thing mankind experienced. and without pain we wouldnt feel any joy neither, right?
its not as if pain and suffering is the only thing mankind experienced. and without pain we wouldnt feel any joy neither, right?
User avatar #353 to #9 - patrickmiller (05/10/2013) [-]
" God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." I feel like this paints a different picture not of a God who is an asshole but one who gave us a world and lets us do with it what we want no matter how terrible. Not to say it's okay for him to do that, if he is real that is.
#351 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
"God didn't kill that little girl. Fate didn't butcher her and destiny didn't feed her to those dogs. If God saw what any of us did that night he didn't seem to mind. From then on I knew... God doesn't make the world this way. We do." I feel like this paints god in a different light not a sadistic jerk who makes these things happen but when who doesn't monitor what we do but instead lets us make the world we're in. Sauce is Rorschach in the Watchmen comic by the way.
User avatar #332 to #9 - popkornking (05/10/2013) [-]
User avatar #314 to #9 - adrianking ONLINE (05/10/2013) [-]
What if life isn't meant to be easy and safe?
User avatar #303 to #9 - Classic (05/10/2013) [-]
Havent you played sims? all those things are fun as hell to do! if you were god you would do that **** to! dont lie to yourself!!!!!
#302 to #9 - welcometoatl (05/10/2013) [-]
Ahhh the Problem of Evil debate.

#300 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
oh look the new religion board
#295 to #9 - sjtrippin (05/10/2013) [-]
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
#316 to #295 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
#276 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
"We're not your play things"

Thus free will and bad things in the world.

Go **** Yourself
User avatar #249 to #9 - messager (05/10/2013) [-]
i believe in God, but i also believe that much of the problems that exist today are man-created. i think God wants us to learn how we can save each other.
User avatar #226 to #9 - tehlulzbringer (05/10/2013) [-]

when i grow up i wanna be just like you
#560 to #226 - mhorn has deleted their comment [-]
#224 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
>claims to know the though processes of a God
>claims to understand the long-long-long term plan
>claims to know enough to judge someone who actually does

>fails to see irony
User avatar #176 to #9 - ompalomper (05/10/2013) [-]
this is why, in my firm belief, god either dead or never existed in the first place
#167 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
The best part of this

the very best part

The part where anyone who simply brings up a counter point to an atheist viewpoint is red thumbed to hell by the bandwagons.
#162 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Dude Dude...This is EXACTLY how I was thinking....In EXACT same words.........Are you...me??????
User avatar #149 to #9 - bryceface (05/10/2013) [-]
I like to think of God as a huge asshole.
#140 to #9 - thelostsheperd (05/10/2013) [-]
Personally, I think that if there is a God then he either knows and sees everything, and makes us go through these hardships to mold us, and shape us into the people we need to be, or he could plop us down into these 			******		 situations and just kind of leave us there to test us to see if we're worthy of whatever 			********		 he has up in heaven. But then again, what do I know? I haven't read the Bible. For all I know, God could be a woman, in which case the following gif is related.
Personally, I think that if there is a God then he either knows and sees everything, and makes us go through these hardships to mold us, and shape us into the people we need to be, or he could plop us down into these ****** situations and just kind of leave us there to test us to see if we're worthy of whatever ******** he has up in heaven. But then again, what do I know? I haven't read the Bible. For all I know, God could be a woman, in which case the following gif is related.
User avatar #445 to #140 - bladebites (05/11/2013) [-]
God can't be a woman, if God was a woman guys would be sent to hell and never be told why
User avatar #469 to #445 - bladebites (05/11/2013) [-]
I get the feeling that was either a bad joke or nobody gets it
Get it? Because girls get mad at guys and often do not tell the guys why? eh? eh?
I can't be funny.
User avatar #260 to #140 - danniegurl (05/10/2013) [-]
it's not that he puts us through hardships to mold us, it's more that the devil puts us through them, and he'll let it happen if he thinks it will teach us (or, in the case of the holocaust, the world) a valuable lesson, and thus mold us.
User avatar #285 to #260 - pandain (05/10/2013) [-]
Having all those people die just to prove a point kinda makes you think he's a ****** god, doesn't it?
User avatar #298 to #285 - danniegurl (05/10/2013) [-]
how do you know that it didn't prevent billions of deaths due to discrimination and hate?
i feel like the holocaust was a huge wake up call. i mean, yes, prejudice still exists today, but look how fast and extremely it declined.
#358 to #298 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
You know someone's ignorant when they state that prejudice is declining fast
User avatar #374 to #358 - danniegurl (05/10/2013) [-]
okay, so you have the thirties where blacks were hung by nooses all the time and got no justice. now it would be a complete outrage.
with how old earth is, a few decades is nothing.
#372 to #358 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Let's see, in the last 50 years (about 0.5% of modern, recorded history), society went from the only way to be truly free is to be a rich, Western European, third generation white male, to literally anybody. That's a lot of progress, considering before that most anyone outside of that group was little more than sub-human property.
User avatar #313 to #298 - pandain (05/10/2013) [-]
I think what I was trying to say is... Jews believed in god, if such god exists (not saying it doesn't, just saying I think there's no way we can know) then it turned on the people who believed in him/it/her... Which also makes you doubt on whether he is so benevolent or if he will actually reciprocally act towards you for believing in him. Or I dunno, ****** getting confusing now.
User avatar #328 to #313 - danniegurl (05/10/2013) [-]
well, then you're getting into the free will thing, too
User avatar #133 to #9 - garymotherfingoak (05/10/2013) [-]
God wants us to have some free will for ourselves. sometimes that goes for the better, other times goes for the worst.
User avatar #121 to #9 - rockamekishiko (05/10/2013) [-]
I don't think God manipulates anyone. So people are free to be as evil as they want such as the nazis were.
#116 to #9 - missing has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #102 to #9 - lizardnigger (05/10/2013) [-]
God didn't listen
you didn't mention him
there you go
#101 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
I kill all my Sims.
User avatar #79 to #9 - themightymrplow (05/10/2013) [-]
If there was no bad, there would be no good. Weird sort of cycle, really.
#61 to #9 - stijnverheye has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #118 to #61 - funkyrednipples (05/10/2013) [-]
You can't believe or dis-believe evolution. It's ******* fact.
User avatar #257 to #118 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/10/2013) [-]
tell that to my ******* study of religion teacher. He ******* scoffs when i mention evolution and Darwinism's "survival of the fittest" as an explanation for the meaning of life
#126 to #118 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Not taking any sides, but: theory*

Everybody assumed E=MC^2 was a fact. It was a theory, they disproved it.
User avatar #569 to #126 - aviatrix (05/11/2013) [-]
Fair warning guys; I'm about to ********* pretty hard.

Seriously. Holy ******* Christ **** from a donkey.

I think religion is generally great: it teaches people who can't figure out morality on their own what is right and what is not okay. But I LOSE MY **** when religion gets in the way of science and the progress of mankind.
User avatar #571 to #569 - aviatrix (05/11/2013) [-]
If Anon is trolling with stupidity, then he did a ******* fantastic job, and well played. **** .
#161 to #126 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
It's not a ******* theory.

Evolution is a fact.

The "Theory of Evolution" is about HOW we evolve. But it's accepted as a FACT that evolution exists.
#147 to #126 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
When i hear this GODDAM ************* "Its a Theory" argument i FLIP MY **** . Theory in the field of science and theory in english language definition are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
**** Everyone that uses that distinction as their argument against evidence of Evolution.
Yes i am rustled, VERY rustled.
#122 to #118 - stijnverheye has deleted their comment [-]
#57 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Personal belief here so bear (?) with me.
If you were God, and had created the Earth and the entire universe. And gave humanity free will and only a few guidelines to help them along the way. Would you not turn around as fast as possible to go look at the other cool stuff you had created?
I mean, I would have been sitting around watching intergalactic empires and black holes, not this ******* backwater slum. Spawning a couple of lifeforms on planets close to each other and watch what would happen, occacionaly coming back to earth from time to time just to get dissapointed and sad.

TL;DR: God gives us free-will and guidelines and we **** it up, by now he has given up or we are to stake out our own way.
#130 to #57 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Problem is that he is omnipotent, so if he is everything then how can he leave Earth.
#232 to #130 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
tries to apply logic to the being which defines logic

#256 to #232 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
but he defines himself as all-knowing. He's not a 13 year old boy who gets bored with a video game after an hour. Unless you believe he is a 13 year old boy then that is understandable.
#261 to #256 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
how do you know he does that? You talked to him? He told you?
#366 to #261 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Listen I'm just talking about a traditional biblical god. Like I indirectly said, you can believe in any form of god you want, I just wasn't your religious views were.
#378 to #366 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
It's cool. The only problem I see with any form of religion (or lack thereof) is that conclusions are made based on god having a certain nature, when there are so many possibilities, including that which it only makes sense to think he doesn't exist. Nobody said that which created logic has to follow it.
User avatar #112 to #57 - pukki (05/10/2013) [-]
I have imagined the same thing. I am not hardcore believer or anything but here is my theory. When they call him "father" that means we are the children. In some point, you have to let your children go and do their own things. You can't not look over their shoulders all the time and watch everything they do. We ****** up, the world is ****** up, and we can only blame ourselves.
#151 to #112 - hoskins (05/10/2013) [-]
From a "hardcore believer"
You know your **** . Keep at it.
People look at when God ordered the death of the Amalekites, and say "Those people were innocent so that means that God is cruel."
No, God is God. People fail to see that. If He orders someone's death, there's most likely going to be a good reason. I think He lets people like Hitler exist so we can see why He orders executions and such. The children of Amalek could have easily grown up and began a revolution to rule the world, and each of those people could have easily have been 10x worse than Hitler.
Everything happens for a reason. We, as mortal beings, trying to understand God's logic is so stupid. Like the anon above me said, "God gives us free will and we **** it up." Though he hasn't given up on us.
User avatar #55 to #9 - infamoustrapper (05/10/2013) [-]
How can us, being created by a higher being, be able to judge the higher being? How can WE be the one to create morals. He created us. He determines what is right and what is wrong. It doesn't make ANY sense that we can be the ones to say he is doing everything wrong. It just defies logic.
User avatar #262 to #55 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/10/2013) [-]
so i can't judge my teacher for not doing her ******* job right? i can't judge my boss for being a cunt? Humans are very judgmental and we have every right to question those "above" us
#327 to #262 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
those aren't higher beings asshat
User avatar #338 to #327 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/10/2013) [-]
they are still things above me. It isn't as big as god, however it is still an example, i'm simply implying that we can and do judge those who we think do/ have done, a **** job or not up to reasonable standards
#37 to #9 - imadeanaccforthis **User deleted account** has deleted their comment [-]
#21 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
you seriously think that's what it's about? no, god created man and GAVE THEM FREE WILL. Free will is the cause for all things good and bad, if god changed all the bad things to good things, we wouldn't learn a damn thing would we? we are technically "Children" obviously you haven't thought about it much, just jumped on the atheist band wagon. now as for terrible things that some people don't deserve, like small children, it is the product of someone else's choices, and as far as i can remember, it's just how the world works, isn't it? God gave us life and free will, what we do with it is OUR choice, he left it to us.
#22 to #21 - manueldomingues (05/10/2013) [-]
sure, free will, like cancer or HIV oh, oh and ******* animals that kill you in a bite. Thanks a lot God, you´re awesome for the many things you created that can kill us that totally have to do with my freewill, in fact it was man that created viruses and animals and natural disasters right?

Don´t try to ******** me, if God exists he´s probably no God but more likely a devil.
User avatar #283 to #22 - danniegurl (05/10/2013) [-]
ever heard of the food chain? odds are, if a lot of those killer animals didn't exist, it would screw a lot of things up.
as for disease, that's the devil's work.
User avatar #457 to #283 - lolme (05/11/2013) [-]
Do you really believe this yourself?
User avatar #464 to #457 - danniegurl (05/11/2013) [-]
yes, i do. i believe the entity of evil would want to create evil and suffering.
User avatar #468 to #464 - lolme (05/11/2013) [-]
If god really had to abillity to do anything than there wouldn't be a need for the food chain and food would be dropping out of the sky. Unless he want to see us, his precious creations, running around being killed or hurt while hunting? And there wouldn't be a devil cause he would have the power to abolish evil, he is the most powerful being in the universe after all, so that shouldn't be a problem.
User avatar #480 to #468 - danniegurl (05/11/2013) [-]
could there ever be good without evil?
and there is free will.
#139 to #22 - ryex **User deleted account** has deleted their comment [-]
#58 to #22 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
If God exists he doesn't give a **** so quit complaining to the guy that creates vengefull lightning.
It doesn't matter if he's there or not cause we are here and we have to make the best out of it. So suck it up kid, cause there ain't jack **** either you or me can do about that guy except looking forward and say that we can, and will, ******* do it.
#27 to #22 - girlwithglasses (05/10/2013) [-]
Don't forget he didn't make unicorns or Pokemon real either. He choose disease over those.
Not sarcasm
#452 to #27 - anon (05/11/2013) [-]
in a different dimension of pokemons, people are complaining God didnt make animals
#49 to #27 - arkfire (05/10/2013) [-]
People just don't realize he did create unicorns, the one horned rhino. The word unicorn comes from the latin word unicornis which is a one horned rhino.
#106 to #49 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
That's because we don't care about rhinos, we want Unicorns.

Not the kind of which the latin is derived of. I mean Unicorns, the kind that everybody is talking about when mentioning Unicorns.
#20 to #9 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
According to your logic, is God not then acting through you, right now??

Making you write that comment??

User avatar #178 to #20 - Sunburn (05/10/2013) [-]
Isn't that where free will comes into play?
User avatar #218 to #178 - giguelingueling (05/10/2013) [-]

But I think that if there's an omniscience god, we can't have free will. If he is omniscient, he will know in advance every things we would do, therefore, free will would not exist.

If he could only see all the possible future that our free will can make us leave, he is not omniscient, because he don't know what we are going to do next, he can only bet on it.

(sorry for the ******** of mistake, I'm still learning english)
User avatar #253 to #218 - danniegurl (05/10/2013) [-]
he knows everything we are going to do, and even if he knows it's something bad, he doesn't stop it, because he gave us free will.
it's the devil that causes anyone to do something evil.
god just hoped we will choose good.
User avatar #559 to #253 - aviatrix (05/11/2013) [-]
"The devil" is a metaphor humanity created to avoid facing the responsibility of its evil.
User avatar #308 to #253 - giguelingueling (05/10/2013) [-]
it's not what he do with that knowledge that bug me, it's the fact that if he know in advance what we're going to do, how is it free will ?

Oxford definition of free will :
the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one’s own discretion.

Oxford definition of fate : The development of events outside a person’s control, regarded as predetermined by a supernatural power.

So If god is omniscient, he knew 50 years ago, before I was even born that I would be writing about how he can't be omniscient if I have free will, correct ?

If this is true, how is it not fate ?
If this is false, how is god omniscient ?
User avatar #312 to #308 - danniegurl (05/10/2013) [-]
free will, meaning he won't control our actions. he knows what actions we will take, and he doesn't try to control them.
User avatar #248 to #218 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/10/2013) [-]
i fully agree
#181 to #178 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
But isn't he saying that God in some way controls free will?

By saying all our actions, is merely acting through us?
User avatar #188 to #181 - Sunburn (05/10/2013) [-]
I don't believe he meant controlling the world at "His/Her/Its" will by meaning "He/She/It" controls free will, I believe he meant the fact that "He/She/It" "creates" and "destroys" everything at "His/Her/Its" leisure.

If "He/She/It" truly gave us free will, then "He/She/It" would not have any influence in our actions whatsoever.
#192 to #188 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
Exactly, I completely agree with you. But if he doesn't have any influence, should he be credited?
User avatar #194 to #192 - Sunburn (05/10/2013) [-]
I believe that "He/She/It" should be credited for the creation, but not the actions that follow the creation. So... no.
#217 to #194 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
But.. If he created us, and he is all knowing, wouldn't he be able to make us exactly who we are?
How we would react to this post?
If you look at it that way, basically there is no free will.
Since that through that creation, "He/She/It" is able to control us?
#228 to #217 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
You're thinking of it like a human. The entirety behind a god is that he defines what is logical, so what is logical or illogical to you just makes him laugh at your arrogance to believe that someone who literally defines reality is bound by your understanding of it.
#247 to #228 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
Of course, I can never ever think what is surpass my own logic.

But God still created my logic, according to my theory.
That god created me, and by that, also my logic.
So this raises more questions than it answers.
Why would God create me, so my logic is flawed?
And if God did that, only to laugh at my arrogance, isn't God a dick??
By controlling a "joke", though it only brings agony and misunderstanding?
User avatar #347 to #247 - marcuss (05/10/2013) [-]
by growing a flower from seed its much more beautiful than craft if from lifeless paper.
for your life is yours alone and it is up to you how you grow. But what makes your logic diffrend from flower you can decide to be an bush of thorn or a rose. and from people like you and me is the meadow made. for you know kindom of god is within men , not one but in all of us. for it is up to us what will the meadow look a pit of death and thorn or colorful sea of flowers . and god is merely a gardener. thus we live the way we were meant to be. Alive
#259 to #247 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Yea, you'll probably never understand. Your whole comment contradicted itself.
#279 to #259 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
How did it do so?
#307 to #279 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
You said your logic could never comprehend, then applied it anyway. You're running entirely on assumptions which may or may not be true and you have no way of knowing if they are. God defines logic, to say you understand it is arrogance at its finest. On top of that, you seem to think you know the whole story, every step in the butterfly effect, every individual nuance in the past, present and future which could influence or be influenced by the trillions of microscopic scale interactions across the entire universe.

For all you know, this is by far the best option out there, perhaps it's the only one. You know absolutely nothing about the existence or non-existence of a God or anything at all of his nature. You can't apply logic to something that could in truth be one of the infinite number of possibilities of reality which make your logic completely irrelevant.

tl;dr this entire thread is nothing but arrogance
#323 to #307 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
Ahhh okay.
So what you're saying, is basically that i can't define logic?
#341 to #323 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Pretty much. The only definition that could be correct for "god" is that any combination of descriptions, words, numbers, abstract ideas beyond the comprehension of a human mind could potentially be the correct one.
#348 to #341 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
Okay, but don't you do basically the same thing, when you say God is that complicated? You define him aswell, don't you?
#356 to #348 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Well, I've only said that it's just as likely that he is that complicated as if he was a monkey at the zoo named bobo who created the universe by slinging cosmic **** at the wall. Still, I won't claim to be arrogant , only that my arrogance considers the possibility that everything I've said couldn't possibly be more wrong.
#360 to #356 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
Then I can agree to your theory. Because by accepting that you might be mistaken aswell, you don't show that arrogance, as you have in your previous comments.
User avatar #304 to #279 - robertolee (05/10/2013) [-]
Just like to say I understood exactly what you were talking about and just incase you weren't sure the anon is clearly ignorant and doesn't understand.

Basically if God created me he knows how I will react to each and every situation, making free will an illusion and every good and evil act a human does is God's will and therefore people are predetermined to go to hell and heaven. Massive flaws in the religious logic where God is all powerful and knowing.
#311 to #304 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
You're assuming things about the nature of a god which is my point in the first place. You're trying to define that which defines definition itself. Thinking you can makes you beyond arrogant.
User avatar #325 to #311 - robertolee (05/10/2013) [-]
I have assumed NOTHING about the nature of God. All I have done is repeated the exact same properties people claim God to have, if I am arrogant for repeating what I have heard and read about God then what does that make all religions in the world who invent these properties for God and elevate themselves above people they believe to be lesser?
#337 to #325 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
I have to say, that I love this thread.

I understand what Anon is trying to say, but I also think calling us arrogant is over the line.
I completely agree with your comment, I don't think that's arrogance neither, have a thumb.
#343 to #337 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
arrogance isn't necessarily bad, it's simply speaking without knowing, which, on this topic, is really all that can be done.
#350 to #343 - thailin (05/10/2013) [-]
But it's still not arrogant to talk of what you think you know.
Unless everyone is arrogant, since everyone is talking from what they think they know.

My knowledge have been widened, and I have gained more perspective of this matter.
#334 to #325 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
That makes them arrogant, too. Claiming to have any understanding of the nature of what we consider a God is arrogance. There are too many unknowns, and by too many I mean beyond an infinite number of unknowns. There is simply no way to define the nature of a god except recognize that it could literally be anything and then some.
User avatar #352 to #334 - robertolee (05/10/2013) [-]
Then this makes this entire ******* discussion redundant! There is no way to know about God or his nature and according to you anyone that discusses him or repeats anything religion has told him/her is arrogant. Then really there is no other need for a God other than it gives some people comfort to think of an afterlife.

Also this makes religion completely arrogant and pointless.
#361 to #352 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
It does the same for atheism. The only thing is, the atheists aren't the ones being told they are wrong in this instance. I won't claim to know anything of God, whether he is real or make believe, because for all I know he wants us to believe he isn't real. All I want is for everybody to stop discussing moot points and start helping people. Being kind and helping people has a good track record for making people happy, not religion, not the lack of it, not the arguing over the definition of God.

Kindness is the answer, God or not. That's how we take care of ourselves and each other. Being right hardly gets us anything, especially in this matter.
User avatar #367 to #361 - robertolee (05/10/2013) [-]
I hate it when people label themselves atheists, you cannot be a true atheist because you cannot know for certain whether there is no God or not. labelling yourself as any definite belief or lack of is crazy.
#19 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
I really get annoyed by some people who say that god is bad
he created you, you are his playtoys, he can murder all of you if he wants
he can do anything to you, if he didn't exist neither would you...
you ******* pathetic beings, thinking that you can stand anywhere near god
He's GOD you morons, not some little floating sweaty crap who tries to survive everyday, which YOU are
Just accept the fact that you are nothing compared to him.. HE IS YOUR CREATOR

You'd do the same, because you know that they're nothing compared to you
User avatar #511 to #19 - jakesir (05/11/2013) [-]
If god created us to love him unconditionally then why is it even possible for us to think negative thoughts about him now? If he truly was all powerful, why would he need to punish people for speaking negatively about him? Why wouldn't he just make it impossible for us to think negatively about him, if he is "all powerful"? If there is such a god then he truly has little control over his own "creations".
#633 to #511 - anon (05/12/2013) [-]
he gave us free will

if he judged all of us saying

"if you had free will you'd do this"

it would sound unfair, you'd say "I wouldn't, I swear!"

So he now lets us live our lives and then not say
User avatar #634 to #633 - jakesir (05/12/2013) [-]
What you just said makes little to no sense.
#635 to #634 - anon (05/12/2013) [-]
It does make sense

but you have 'little to no IQ'
User avatar #636 to #635 - jakesir (05/12/2013) [-]
If we had no free will we wouldn't be able to even think the thought "I wouldn't, I swear". It would not be possible. Even thinking such a thought implies that we have free will. If we truly had no free will we would only think what this god wanted us to think or believe.
#637 to #636 - anon (05/12/2013) [-]

god is giving us free will cause we get to choose who we want to be, then we get judged by god
User avatar #639 to #637 - jakesir (05/12/2013) [-]
Why would a loving god let us choose who we want to be only to judge us for it?
#108 to #19 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Bitch please, if i had the chance I would bitch-slap god in the face. Might even tea-bag him.
#24 to #19 - manueldomingues (05/10/2013) [-]
you know what i find funny? Most of the predators humanity had to resist, when we were but monkeys, are now extinct. There is no God, at least not like you think. I believe mankind will evolve so much it will surpass God (in my view God´s not omnipotent).
#84 to #24 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
>when humanity were but monkeys

what are you talking about
User avatar #269 to #84 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/10/2013) [-]
#326 to #269 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
We were never "monkeys". Apes does not = monkey.
User avatar #331 to #326 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/10/2013) [-]
okay, thank you for that.
#286 to #269 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
If you're going to be anti-god (I wouldn't call you an atheist, that's insulting) you should at least know your own arguments
User avatar #291 to #286 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/10/2013) [-]
i know we didn't evolve from monkeys, but we were from the same blood line of a monkey, which is the ancestral being of a monkey if i'm not incorrect. If i am wrong, please correct me, as i enjoy knowledge despite my apparent ignorance.
#371 to #291 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Next time don't call it a monkey.

That ancient species is not a monkey.

User avatar #441 to #371 - xeternalx **User deleted account** (05/11/2013) [-]
okay, thank you for the advice, i now know i need to re-assess my intelligence and research more into this.
#18 to #9 - RageGuyyourmom (05/10/2013) [-]
Just think total control, just like most people become monsters in sims after awhile any higher power would probably do the same. Everyone gets bored bro if he does exist I cant blame him for the terrible things hes done.
User avatar #16 to #9 - gottdammit (05/10/2013) [-]
I agree with everything you said. Now, let me tell you of something that may rustle your jimmies. I went to RE when I was in the elementary school. When we asked our RE teacher about the holocaust, she said it was a good thing. Apparently, all Jews have to go to the purgatory because they did not admit Jesus was the son of a god. However, since the Nazis tortured them so much here on Earth, the Jews who died in concetration camps could go directly to heaven. God's plan, am I right?
#114 to #16 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
Pray do tell, how in gods name (hah!) do you know that the jews had to go to purgatory.
And where is it written that the jews who died in the 'holocaust' in 1940-1945 after being tortured by so-called nazis in the future land of 'Germany'.

Because I don't recall no such passage in the Bible.

Now don't get me wrong, this is not so much directed at you, more at that teacher but w/e.
User avatar #120 to #114 - superpats (05/10/2013) [-]
there's more to religion than a book. Also, since we're talking about Judaism here, the Bible doesn't mean anything.
#125 to #120 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
So there are more holy books, cool.

So which of those mentions the holocaust and the jews getting a Go-to-Heaven freecard?
Cause the jews would've probably liked to have known about all that in advance.
User avatar #197 to #125 - superpats (05/10/2013) [-]
Why yes, there are more holy books. You would be ignorant not to know that. Ever heard of the Torah or Qu'ran?
#50 to #16 - arkfire (05/10/2013) [-]
Purgatory does not exist. It is not in the Bible.
#14 to #9 - anon (05/10/2013) [-]
"Would you kindly"

That's not gonna work, God isn't mentally conditioned, Atlas.
User avatar #10 to #9 - douthit (05/10/2013) [-]
It's paradoxical. If you believe in a god, and you blame him for every bad thing, then you must also thank him for every good thing. So by that logic, a god can only be neutral.
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