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#37 - orangepikmin (03/22/2013) [-]
(Sarcasm) Oh yeah, it's definitely okay to compare class sizes like this. It's such a great idea to compare a densely populated area to a whole country and it's a very accurate statistic.
Also, this post also fails to mention that Finnish schools have longer hours generally and that Finland's government actually cares about the level of education that it gives its students, whereas in America (I'm using America because the post above mentions it as well) education isn't emphasized as well if at all.
I agree with a lot of this post, but this post was written in a way that makes it seem that America doesn't have its **** together.
#152 to #37 - anon (03/22/2013) [-]
that's because America DOESN'T have its **** together
#151 to #37 - futuramafan (03/22/2013) [-]
So what you're saying is:

>America doesn't emphasize education
>Finland does
>WOW AMERICA DOESN'T HAVE ITS **** TOGETHER HUH??!?!?! Totally unfair!

what exactly was the point of your post?
User avatar #206 to #151 - orangepikmin (03/23/2013) [-]
I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but the previous comment was referring to the post's (I would say) inaccuracy in presenting statistics. I view this as a type of skew (skewing?) the original poster created through the post and decided to comment about it.

I personally believe that America (the U.S.) has a poor grip on education, but it still can hold a fairly decent educational system.
User avatar #207 to #206 - futuramafan (03/23/2013) [-]
I see what you're saying... I think the OP was right in saying, essentially "America doesn't have its **** together", but for the wrong reasons (skewed stats)
User avatar #145 to #37 - garymotherfinoak (03/22/2013) [-]
Well, they dont have their **** together.
#133 to #37 - anon (03/22/2013) [-]
Implying America DOES have it's **** together.
User avatar #113 to #37 - bothemastaofall (03/22/2013) [-]
We don't.
http://ww w.youtub e. com/watch?v=ML3qYHWRIZk
#104 to #37 - redsoxnbolts (03/22/2013) [-]
I can't agree with you more. So many government officials seem okay with kids getting terrible education. The governor of my state said that if you can afford to pay for a good education if deserve one, but if you can only afford public education you don't deserve a good education.
User avatar #81 to #37 - rieskimo (03/22/2013) [-]
I assumed that Finnish school days were longer, it mentions the difference in recess time which is almost triple.
It does mention that Finland cares about it's education. Towards the bottom it mentions that Finnish teachers must hold a Master's Degree(in education I'm assuming) in order to be a teacher. It also mentions that teachers in society are held up to the same regard as doctors and lawyers.

In all honesty America doesn't have it's **** together. We should have the best, brightest, and strongest but we don't. We are starting to follow the footsteps of people outside of our country. We're starting to hire help more than use our own people. We have all the resources to be truly great but instead we squander our energies on resource hoarding and empty entertainment.
User avatar #142 to #81 - yusay (03/22/2013) [-]
The Masters Degree part is up for argument.

1. How exactly is a Masters Degree necessary to teach any age below 14? That's throwing out teachers for younger kids while wasting good ones that could be used for higher level classes.

2. I have an Engineering teacher, no teaching degree, and she's ******* great. It's possible to have good teachers that don't have degrees.
User avatar #153 to #142 - rieskimo (03/22/2013) [-]
I'm not saying that a degree guarantees a good teacher or that the lack of a degree is a bad teacher. What I simply said is that I understand the requirement for a degree when it comes to teaching. If you are required that level of education to teach than not just anybody will try to teach. More often than not those who have a passion for teaching are going to teach because they've put in the footwork to do so.

If you ask me would I rather have a teacher with a master's degree teaching my 8 year old or somebody who has junior college experience I think it's pretty easy which one I'd prefer.
User avatar #155 to #153 - yusay (03/22/2013) [-]
Everyone wants their kid to be taught by the best, unless they don't care. But you don't get that there aren't an infinite amount of teachers. You know why classroom sizes are so big? Because there aren't enough. Sure, let's have every teacher require a Masters Degree, but now our classrooms are 75 kids per class instead of 25.
User avatar #167 to #155 - rieskimo (03/22/2013) [-]
That's not everywhere, and that's mostly due to a matter of mismanagment. We have a great divide where on one side we are saying we are paying too much for education and the teachers are saying they aren't paid enough. That's the biggest debate that I ever hear, and I hear it a lot here. The issue is just like in any large(at least American) bureaucratic body the money gets mismanaged, we pay too much for somethings and not enough for others. We don't bother with the proper consultants because "we don't have enough money" for them which is a laugh. My local town which has a population of about 35-60 thousand residents and a High School(Secondary school) population of close to 1,300 had a PAPER SHORTAGE the first year that I went there. They also had a budget of $32,000,000 dollars. Can you believe that? They had a shortage of ******* PAPER, like that's even necessary. Keep in mind also that this was before there were any serious computer programs(it was 2001 and we were just starting to really get into computers). That's exactly what I'm talking about right there. Can you imagine going to a college and paying almost $25,000 in tuition fees for the year and that school couldn't provide their teachers with even just simple paper? I can't, it's disgusting.
User avatar #154 to #153 - rieskimo (03/22/2013) [-]
Furthermore, I would assume from all of this information that Finland pays a fair amount for its education. If I'm going to pay high prices(through taxation or elsewise) I'd rather have professors teach kindergarten than high-school graduates(this coming from a high-school graduate mind you).
#202 to #154 - taxation (03/22/2013) [-]
I concur.
User avatar #87 to #81 - orangepikmin (03/22/2013) [-]
I don't think that the level of education should matter, but instead the level of effectiveness each teacher or professor has to offer is something I view as a more important factor.

Because let's face it: We've all had an incredibly smart professor that just wasn't a good teacher. I know I certainly have had plenty of them.
User avatar #88 to #87 - rieskimo (03/22/2013) [-]
I think that the level of education does matter to a point. In my district you only need about 2-4 years of education to be a teacher, not much. We have some of the highest paid teachers in the country dishing out some of the worst students. If I'm going to teach in Finland it's going to take a whole hell of a lot more dedication to do so than where I live right now.

I do agree that intelligence =/= good teaching, but you're more likely to get a better education from a well educated person than a somewhat educated person.(I feel).
User avatar #91 to #88 - orangepikmin (03/22/2013) [-]
I agree completely with the "intelligent teachers are better" comment. It does make a considerable difference in the learning environment if the one who is supposed to be the teacher knows what he or she is talking about.

My only question is what district do you live in? In Tennessee (where I'm from), you have to obtain a Masters AND do an internship to even get considered for a position in the primary education departments. For college professors, they need to get their doctorates in order to teach.
User avatar #107 to #91 - rieskimo (03/22/2013) [-]
I'm from Rhode Island, all you need is a Bachelor's(I think) in education. You don't need much in my state.
#74 to #37 - anon (03/22/2013) [-]
America doesn't have their **** together you ignorant baboon. That statistic about Finland having 600,000 students compared to NYC 1,000,000 with 1 to 12 and 1 to 24 teacher to student ratio- proves America is not keeping up with it's demand.

Our education has accepted a fallacity that not every child can be taught because some are **** ups... Which isn't completely wrong, it's not right either. Finland invests into it's youth, America doesn't.
Source: Lived in America for 26 years.
#84 to #74 - orangepikmin (03/22/2013) [-]
I thumbed you up because you called me an ignorant baboon, yet you still misspelled the word "fallacy".
#40 to #37 - anon (03/22/2013) [-]
Considering that Detroit went bankrupt; they don't have there **** together. America also happens to be one of the most dangerous places in the world due to so much crime. Can't blame them too much though: the country is fkin HUGE.
tldr: the bigger the country, the harder it is to keep them in check
User avatar #71 to #40 - mattmanhemi (03/22/2013) [-]
are we talking about america or just Detroit. with your logic i can say longisland has a thriving economy,lowest crime rates, and better education than europe.
User avatar #42 to #40 - orangepikmin (03/22/2013) [-]
Again, that's not America though. And even worse, Detroit was this example. DETROIT. PEOPLE LIVING IN DETROIT DON'T WANT TO BE IN DETROIT.
Not to mention that there are immigrants FLOODING in so much that in fact, Americans don't even have to maintain the birth rate needed to prevent the population from falling due to the amount.
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