Eskimo Problems. I wanted to call this "Eskimo 3.14" but that was yesterday.... I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Pevert:. "No, n


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#78 - medewu (03/16/2013) [-]
I don't remember who showed me this, but it has some strong and truthful words to it.
User avatar #95 to #78 - desiduratum (03/16/2013) [-]
I have been watching 500 Nations, I think it might be found there. I'm not entirely sure, but it sounds awfully familiar.
User avatar #96 to #95 - medewu (03/16/2013) [-]
See, one of my friends showed me this picture and I was like damn... I have to save this.. (Being Native myself) but shoot I might have to watch 500 nations now to see if it's in it.
User avatar #103 to #96 - desiduratum (03/16/2013) [-]
Even if you can't find it, I would still recommend watching. I found it to be very interesting and Educational (of course). However, it is terribly sad, but it is a blessing of enlightenment from the people who had put it together. I'm grateful they did.
Good luck.
#43 - russianbro has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #14 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
The Bible says those who don't know the Gospel can't enter heaven. That's why Jesus said to travel the world and "make disciples of all nations."
User avatar #23 to #14 - stegovii (03/16/2013) [-]
No, It doesn't say that. I'm not sure what exactly it says, but it's something like the post.
I didn't want to comment because I hate religious debates but I thought it should be known
User avatar #24 to #23 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
Don't know where you're getting your info. The Bible is very clear about it.

For, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” - Romans 10:14-15
User avatar #61 to #24 - RandomAnonGuy (03/16/2013) [-]
If you praise God, you will get into heaven.
You did not praise God
Therefore you will not get into heaven.

If you buy a toilet, you will need to use it someday.
You don't buy a toilet
Therefore you will never need to use one.
User avatar #87 to #61 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
The need to use a toilet is not predicated on whether or not you bought one. You will need to **** regardless of whether or not you have a toilet. A better analogy would be:

If you buy a toilet, you will be able to **** like a human being.
You don't buy a toilet.
Therefore you will not be able to **** like a human being.
#51 to #24 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
ANALOGY TIME. if i said "everyone who wears blue [calls on the name of the lord] gets cake [will be saved]" does that mean that people who wears red don't get cake? This quote is about preaching "the good word" and telling people to do it. Your quote is invalid :S
User avatar #55 to #51 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
That verse from Romans is meant to be used in conjunction with another verse which appears earlier in the Bible, but I didn't include it in that comment because I figured it would be obvious. But it goes:

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
#63 to #55 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
I've been doing some research and I think what happens is that if you don't know about the gospel, you will be presented with it upon death (god can do that, he is a haxxor) and your decision will determine heaven or hell. so in that way, everyone will know about the bible. It doesn't mean your wrong in saying "those who don't know the Gospel can't enter heaven", its just that will never happen.... at least so i think
User avatar #92 to #63 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
I've thought about that myself sometimes and I hope that's true. But I don't like preaching that idea because the Bible doesn't give any indication of that. It says we will be judged upon death, but there's nothing about a second chance to repent.
#58 to #55 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
Ummmmm no need to be snappy. Explain this then: "After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands"-Revelation 7:9-10
User avatar #67 to #58 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
Ehhh the Book of Revelation is tricky. Most of the Bible is pretty straightforward but it's always been my understanding that Revelation is largely metaphorical. However, many people have tried to "translate" the symbols in it, and there's even a website that goes into detail about what they might mean. Here is the possible explanation for Chapter 7: You need to login to view this link
#74 to #67 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
but i think the bible is unnecessarily contradictory in nature to really make any claim for or against. I went through a lot of quotes suggesting that people ignorant of god will be punished -_-
User avatar #83 to #74 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
Exactly. Ignorance of the Gospel will lead to condemnation. So it's the duty of Christ's followers to travel to the places that don't have the Gospel and share it with them, so that they can be saved.
#73 to #67 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
true. "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them…"
~ Romans 2:14-15
User avatar #79 to #73 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
This simply means that even if someone doesn't accept the truth about God, they have still been given innate instinct to follow His commands. When people refrain from killing, stealing, lying, etc., they're living godly lives, whether they believe in Him or not. Of course, faith in Him is still necessary for salvation, but the natural urge to do good is a sign of God working in you.
#86 to #79 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
So what you are telling me is if there was no god, this world would be filled with killers, people who steal, lie out the ass, and so on? But yet? Isn't that how it already is? Do people not still kill one another, do people still lie to each other? do people steal things? and so on? there is no such thing as the instinct to do good, because some mythical being made it so. It's how you were brought up and raised.
User avatar #91 to #86 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
Actually if there were no God, then there would be no people, no world, no anything. And I'm referring to spiritual instinct (or conscience). People can still give in to animal instinct as well. After all, we're all evil by nature. The urge to kill and steal and lie is just our natural sin rising up inside us. But we're not forced to act a certain way. We have free will, which means that we can choose to listen to God (through our conscience) or Satan (through our evil nature). It's very much like in cartoons when characters have the little angel and devil on their shoulders. Some people listen to God, some listen to Satan.
#93 to #91 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
Okay, now take it from a non-spiritual stand point? if you found out there was no god. (No ******** but there is, NOTHING after you die.) would you go out and start killing? would you start stealing? lying? cheating? the whole 10 yards? No you wouldn't why? because you were raised that those things were bad. No god told you so, the laws did the people did.
User avatar #99 to #93 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
It's hard to say, because I don't know for certain what kind of person I'd be without morality. But if I had to guess I'd say I would lie, cheat, steal, etc., whenever it was convenient. Killing is a much bigger thing, but mainly just because I can't envision a scenario wherein I'd feel the need to do so. Aside from like, if I or one of my loved ones was in danger of a crazy person or something. Furthermore, you're predisposing a reality where even without objective morality, there are still laws prohibiting certain behaviors, and as long as killing is something illegal, I would probably try to avoid doing it for the sake of avoiding prison.
#112 to #99 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
YOU WOULD STILL HAVE ******* MORALS! Just because the Magical being in the sky is no longer there wouldn't mean that we would be ******* moral-less beings... there's always been laws and structure. throughout life when you grow up you learn what is right and what is wrong, it's not something we are born with. we are born with the will to survive. reproduce and such. we will kill if we have to cheat lie and steal. The oldest natural instinct is Survival.
#158 to #112 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
"people do good because of gods teaching, irregardless of personal belief. if there was no god, then we would all be bad". they are very bad arguments (when you look at it from a logical view-point) because there is no proof to either claims. BUT, that is the point of 'faith'- to believe without evidence. It may seem ridiculous, to believe in something without proof, but otherwise what would be the point of being on earth in a massive test if there was proof of god (and therefore heaven). So either you have faith and peacefully acknowledge that some people struggle to do so, or you don't have faith (like me) but take solace in the fact that they know there is no proof and so are still making an educated decision.
User avatar #117 to #112 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
Without an objective moral authority, there is no point in living according to anyone's rules unless they benefit you. Lying, cheating, stealing, etc., would be beneficial to me, but I resist the urge to do that because God says it's wrong. If there's no objective morality, then who has the right to say what's right or wrong? Humans are the most flawed species on the planet. Why would I trust their judgment?
#85 to #79 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
#44 to #14 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
quote that for me
User avatar #45 to #44 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
I did. See my reply to the previous comment.
#46 to #45 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
soz, didnt refresh
User avatar #107 to #14 - garymotherfinoak (03/16/2013) [-]
(Coming from a Christian)

You have to remember that the books of the bible were written by a bunch of old guys 2000+ years ago. They were very, very wise, but the times were different. Any ridiculous statement like being gay is a sin (which was a misinterpreted verse anyway, it had something to do with tampering with the property of your neighbor) or ones that don't believe in god or haven't heard of him don't go to heaven, should not be taken seriously today. If god made us and planned for genetics to be the way we develop, why did he allow there to be a gay gene if it's supposedly a sin? because it isn't. It was determined as a sin by a person or small group of people 2000 years ago, which at the time, they didn't know better. If a person was raised hindu but is an extremely kind and moral person, he wont rot in hell simply because he follows his heart in what he believes, he'll get a VIP ticket and get permission to cut to the front of the line when entering the golden gates. Now I supposed believing in god in the form he wants to be represented in does give you an advantage i suppose, Say a devout catholic that prays out of his heart everyday, is an african slave owner, corrupt businessman and rapist, he won't be seeing pearly gates any time soon. I feel that everyone has an opprotunity to get into good ol' heaven. Just be a good person and do not act unjust for the sake of doing so. Follow a good path or morals and stick by them, help others and serve the essence of Good.
User avatar #115 to #107 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
Not gonna lie, reading that was an ordeal. I don't wanna come off as rude, you're very wrong. I'm sorry.

It doesn't matter how old the Bible is or how wise the authors were. When they were writing it, they were writing the perfect words of God, which He had put into their minds so that they could deliver the exact message He wanted to be delivered.

Homosexuality is very expressly stated as being sinful, in multiple parts of the Bible, including the New Testament. I don't know why you think it's been misinterpreted.

Please read my previous comments in this thread, as I explain why those ignorant of the Gospel will not be saved.

The reason homosexuality appears as a genetic condition could be either because sin is genetic (we inherit original sin from Adam), or because God gives extra challenges to certain people so that they may overcome them in order to live for Him. If a person is born with only one leg, does that mean God doesn't want him to ever walk? Of course not. He gets a prosthetic, or a crutch, and learns to walk with that. Just because someone is born defective doesn't mean they have to live that way.

A devout Catholic who lives as you have described can still enter heaven if he repents his sins. But only if he stops living an evil lifestyle. God can forgive slip-ups but only if we recognize them as evil and seek forgiveness through Christ. Anyone who does not seek Christ is in danger or condemnation.
User avatar #121 to #115 - garymotherfinoak (03/16/2013) [-]
I know instead of using "i feel that," i'm supposed to use stuff like "the fact is," but the fact is , I don't want to sound like I'm coming off as "i'm right, you're wrong, deal with it you idiot" to a degree, and i like to keep an open mind. I do feel that it is a fact for example that the men enlightened by god were still imperfect men, and incapable of writing the perfect word of god, but like i said, I am open to change that feeling/belief for example.
User avatar #120 to #115 - garymotherfinoak (03/16/2013) [-]
Now here we have an example of two types of christians, one liberal, and one... eh, ill just say conservative to make the political comparison, plus i feel it would be extreme to call you a creationist. you are closer to one i will say, in the sense that you take more literal meaning of the bible to heart, but that's not a bad thing though, it's simply a different belief. What would make it a bad thing is if it was based on idiotic motive or highly flawed logic, which i can tell yours definitely isn't. We each have our own beliefs and interpretation of what God wants from us. I do believe that the Men who wrote the bible were shined by the light of god, but i feel that they were still imperfect men, who took influence from the ever flawed society of man. I see the bible as more of a philosophical guide rather than a history book and a set of religious laws (not that the commandments shouldn't be followed whenever possible, that **** is canon, the severity of breaking each one, depending on the situation, varies immensely, such as using the lord's name in vain. it's broken billions of times by the world each day, simply as a form of possibly profane exclamation, hardly as a literal urge to damn god for his actions). We each have our perception as to what God or set of gods (if you're into that) wants from us. Your perception, I may not agree with necessarily, but I can respect it quite well.
User avatar #126 to #120 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
I wouldn't be offended to be called a creationist, although as Zlamous pointed out recently, creationism is more closely associated with fundamentalism, and while I do seem to adopt a more literal interpretation of the Bible than you, I'm still somewhat more liberal in my views than an actual fundamentalist. When it comes to labels, I just like to keep it simple and call myself a Christian, because at the end of the day, however I interpret the Bible or however I practice my faith, one thing that never changes is that I worship Jesus Christ, and that's enough to make me a Christian.

As for the commandments, not only is it forgivable to violate them sometimes, but it is expected. There was never going to be a person who could fully live up to them (besides Jesus). And as Romans 3:20 states: Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law, rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. Simply put, the reason God gave us laws was not to indicate who was a good person and who was not, but rather to prove that no human is perfect and therefore we are all at the mercy of the one who is perfect, Jesus Christ.
#129 to #126 - garymotherfinoak (03/16/2013) [-]
This image has expired
I gotta get some sleep, it's 3:30 am here. This was a nice talk. Take the 10XX'th image in my reaction folder as a token of this conversation.

Honestly though, I respect your intelligence. Sleep well.
User avatar #132 to #129 - jokeface ONLINE (03/16/2013) [-]
Yea, it's after 4:30 here, I should get some sleep as well. Thank you and you sleep well too, sir.
#1 - anonymoose (03/15/2013) [-]
Because, as a Christian, it's his job to spread the word of God.
#2 to #1 - taurusguy (03/15/2013) [-]
Be an asshole more like it, trying to ruin our lives by forcing us to live like them or suffer eternal damnation
User avatar #11 to #2 - anonymoose (03/16/2013) [-]
It's a Christians duty to spread the word of God. They aren't being an asshole, they're doing what they feel is their moral duty to do.
User avatar #19 to #11 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Yes and no.
Not all sects are evangelical.
User avatar #75 to #19 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
Then those sects would not be doing their job as Christians
User avatar #77 to #75 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Well, no.
Technically the only thing that labels you as a Christian (as per the Nicene Creed) is that you believe in Jesus and that he died for your sins.
You don't have to be evangelical to be Christian.
Though you are supposed to help make the world a better place in order the get into Heaven, as you need not only spiritual cleanliness by repenting, but also need to work your body in order to truly be clean. And this is most often done by spreading the word.
User avatar #105 to #77 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
A Christian is someone that follows Jesus' teachings and actions regarding the worship of Jehovah

User avatar #114 to #105 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
It's like saying "A desert is sandy"
Not all deserts are sandy, because it is a common trait does not mean that it is necessary.
Correlation =/= causation
That being said, many sects of Christianity do require you to follow the teachings of Jesus, which for the most part are "Be a decent person"
But all that is required to be a Christian is to believe that Jesus died for your sins.
User avatar #122 to #114 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
Your simile serves no purpose to your point or to counter my point

Christians are followers of Jesus, son of Jehovah; They follow his teachings and his actions. Jesus went from city to city spreading the word of Jehovah with the aim of converting people. During his life and after his death, Jesus' disciples and followers followed on his tradition by travelling city to city spreading Jehovah's name and the story of Jesus. So to be a Christian, evangelicalism is a necessity

I don't often get involved in religious arguments, but it hurts me to see the uneducated spread lies like this
User avatar #124 to #122 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Strange, because I have studied this, and all it takes to be a Christian is to believe in Jesus.
Yes, you can emulate his actions, if in the end it ends well for everyone, but to say that to be a Christian you must emulate Jesus and spread the word is to say that those that can't spread the word are unable to be Christian.
So to be christian, evangelism is not necessary, but allowed, and often promoted. Much like in Islam the pilgrimage to Mecca is promoted, but not a requirement.
User avatar #127 to #124 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
You may call yourself a Christian for just believing in Jesus, but the whole idea behind the creation of Christianity was that its members would emulate what Jesus did during his time on Earth. That shouldn't have changed since his death, but for whatever reason, mainstream Christianity (mainly Catholicism) has forgotten and in-fact twisted a lot of the Bible.

The only people who would be unable to pass on the word would be those who are blind, deaf, and limbless. Blind people can still talk to others, deaf people can still hand out pamphlets, limbless people can still talk to others about Christianity. Only when all three are combined would you have an excuse, which is extremely rare and I'm sure there'd be an exception for them.

Why you're comparing Christianity to Islam I don't know, the pilgrimage to Mecca has no connection to Christian evangelicalism at all
User avatar #128 to #127 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Actually, the comparison between Islam and Christianity is perfectly reasonable.
You say that Christians are to emulate what Jesus did in his life, as are Muslims to Muhammad.
Jesus was evangelical, so Christians should be too.
Muhammad made the pilgrimage, so Muslims should too.

As for whether Christians must be evangelical. They don't have to be.
The Nicene Creed, which is what standardizes all Christianity and creates the guidelines that ALL Christians follow, states that to be a christian, you must believe in Christ, and that he died for your sins. And that you should TRY and emulate his actions.
User avatar #133 to #128 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
They are two different religions with different doctrine and tradition, just because something may apply to one, it doesn't necessarily apply to the other

The Nicene Creed has no (or rather, shouldn't have) power over Christianity at all as there was no input from Jesus at all. It's simple, If you wish to be a Christian, you have to follow what Jesus said and did. That is what Christianity is all about, following what Jesus said and did. E.g. To 'love thy neighbour', to love one another as I have loved you', 'to spread the word of All Mighty Jehovah' etc
User avatar #136 to #133 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Well, actually, Christianity and Islam are very similar, with similar traditions and doctrine.
Both are Judaic faiths (descended from Judaism) were founded around Jerusalem by men from low-income backgrounds.
Islam even reveres Jesus as a prophet.

Also, which is more important, to respect your fellow man or to be evangelical, let's say you have a Muslim, and you try and convert him, suddenly you have offended him by basically saying "You're religion is wrong"
Therefore by being evangelical, you have disrespected your fellow man.
User avatar #138 to #136 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
Jesus is mentioned in the Qur'an more times than Muhammad I know that, but one follows the old testament (Christianity), and one does not (Islam). Even though they both descend from Judaism, the doctrine that each follows differ greatly. When it comes to traditions, they couldn't be more different, that much is blatantly obvious.

To be respectful, or evangelical? You can be both at the same time as I have already shown.
User avatar #139 to #138 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
When it comes to traditions, both are remarkably similar.
Regular prayers, a holy day of the week, a period of x amount of days where you you go without stuff, etc.
Look at the birth, death and even marriage traditions, although many of these are based on regional cultures.
As for the doctrine that both follow, they are remarkably similar.

But still, my point stands, you do not need the be evangelical to be Christian, if you needed to emulate EVERYTHING Jesus did, you would be Jesus.
That was a joke, don't throw a hissy fit.

In all reality though, acting as Jesus did in that time period, today, you would be acting much more like the Romans or the Jews, so realistically, you are being counter-productive.
User avatar #141 to #139 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
Regular prayer is encouraged in Christianity, but it is not timed and the amount you pray is not specified, ever. Unlike in Islam where you have set times and specific procedures to go through.

You don't need to emulate everything he did, it would be a little unpractical to have that many carpenters don't you think? Just emulate him as far as practicality takes you. Common sense man, it's there to be used, come on....
User avatar #143 to #141 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
You say when practicality suits you, what if it never suits you?
Are you then not a Christian because you weren't evangelical?
Or do you admit that evangelism is not inherently necessary to be Christian.
#145 to #143 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
Just read #127, I've already explained how the only way evangelical is not practical is when the person in question is blind, deaf and limbless. Extreme, but true.

And you call me ignorant...? Refer to the picture
#147 to #145 - Crusader has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #111 to #105 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Dude, I have studied this.
All being a christian means is that you accept Jesus as your lord and saviour and believe that he died for your sins. But that is doing the bare minimum.
That's it.
You don't have to be evangelical, you don't have to go out of your way to spread the "word", you just have to believe in Christ.
User avatar #123 to #111 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
I was a Jehovah's Witness all my life up until 28, and a main role in being a Witness is to study the Bible and thoroughly analyse all of its elements. I know what I'm talking about here, and I like to set right those who do not.
User avatar #125 to #123 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
You are also looking at this through the viewpoint of someone who was a Jehovah's witness, a sect that is one of the most evangelical of them all.
Methodists don't have to be, Baptists don't have to be, Catholics don't have to be.
In fact I have met Jehovah's Witnesses who weren't evangelical, purely because it was not required and served no purpose but to annoy people.
User avatar #130 to #125 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
I haven't been a Witness for a few years now since I became an agnostic theist. My view is unbiased as it can be.

There is no such thing as a Jehovah's Witness who doesn't practice evangelicalism, they will either be past Witnesses or those who have simply lost interest in the whole thing. The reason why the Witnesses were setup in the first place was to separate themselves from Catholicism as the Catholic Church wasn't following the Bibles teachings at all in most cases (e.g. evangelicalism).
User avatar #131 to #130 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
But you don't HAVE to be evangelical, that is what I am saying.
Christians say that God gave us free will, and that we should treat our fellow man with respect. What if being evangelical contradicts that?
User avatar #134 to #131 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
It doesn't contradict that.
User avatar #135 to #134 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Let's say you have a Muslim, and you try and convert him, suddenly you have offended him by basically saying "You're religion is wrong"
Therefore by being evangelical, you have not respected your fellow man.
User avatar #137 to #135 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
I'd be with the Muslim, I wouldn't respect anyone that said "You are religion is wrong".

There's nothing disrespectful in converting someone belonging to another religion...As long as you treat them in a respectful manner. Most likely as soon as you announce your intentions to convert them, a Muslim will tell you they're not interested, you will accept that and go along with your day. There would only be disrespect if you forced yourself onto them, trying to convert them even after they turned you down the first time.
User avatar #9 to #2 - unknownmercury (03/16/2013) [-]
A good Christian will spread the word of God without forcing anything on anyone. A bad Christian will make people stop and listen to what he has to say.
#34 to #9 - kingoflulzfool (03/16/2013) [-]
A good Christean would allow another person too choose to ask about the religion in question, before the Christean shoves a shovels worth of information down that persons throat and believes his incantations ...
#110 to #34 - lordmoldywart (03/16/2013) [-]
This reaction image was made for people like you...
#149 to #110 - kingoflulzfool (03/16/2013) [-]
yes Butthurt it it ....  is glorious
yes Butthurt it it .... is glorious
User avatar #32 to #2 - freight (03/16/2013) [-]
i love the term live like them, as if you know the actions of everysingle person
User avatar #4 to #2 - ibaiapellaniz (03/16/2013) [-]
Well yes, but as a christian.
#37 to #1 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
mfw people don't understand how "Going to hell when you don't know about the bible" works
User avatar #3 to #1 - dupu (03/15/2013) [-]
Why are people thumbing you down? Have my green thumb, it's the best I can do to at least neutralize your comment...
#53 - benighted (03/16/2013) [-]
uh oh, tonight is going to be hell on this thread.
User avatar #68 to #27 - Greevon (03/16/2013) [-]
Did not say.
#106 to #27 - Laddie (03/16/2013) [-]
"I never said this."   
"I never said this."

#30 to #27 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
this is the **** that tries to start **********
User avatar #35 - wafflecopper (03/16/2013) [-]
-1 OP was clearly intended to flame

Even if you are not taught of its existence you will go to hell if you do not accept

Else wise all Christians would have stopped spreading the faith long ago
User avatar #144 to #35 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
You don't go to hell if you are not given the option to believe.
You enter Limbo, where you are asked you believe.
#57 to #35 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
so god will send you to hell for not accepting something you've never been taught?...
...what an ass...
User avatar #56 to #35 - ihatem (03/16/2013) [-]
If Constantinople wasn't Christian and the West didn't become almost entirely Christian, that small fraction left in the Middle East and crying that out would be drowned out pretty easily.
Also kinda would suck considering children are born atheist and don't always live long enough to say their name, much less ask for forgiveness.
#66 to #56 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
Just going to correct you on something. Atheism is the belief that God is not real (although some people are confused on this). If you haven't been introduced to a religion, then you are non religious, not atheist. You can also take into account that children are both with the word of God, and therefore believe in Him until told differently.
In the bible, Jesus proclaims that children are pure and innocent and would therefore go to heaven in the event of an untimely death.

Tl; dr: Children aren't born atheist and would go to heaven regardless. I'm not trying to stat a debate, just trying to clear things up.

User avatar #69 to #66 - ihatem (03/16/2013) [-]
Actually no, that's not accurate, what you are referring to is Gnostic atheism, which is belief there is no god, but what babies are born to are Agnostic atheism, no decision either way.
#76 to #69 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
I'm going to give you a thumb for not chewing me out and swearing like a sailor.

I still Have to disagree with you though, by definition, agnostic and atheist are two different things, just like Christianity and Buddhism are different.
User avatar #84 to #76 - ihatem (03/16/2013) [-]
What definition are you looking at? Christianity and Buddhism are both under theism, which would be belief, (and I think Gnostic and Agnostic can be applied to exclusive separations going deeper into theism, being that one can not be sure, but still believe in a god/s), and atheism has the two subcategories as well.
Atheist is, if we break the word down, A=not, Theist= believer of a specific religion, therefore Agnostic being the absence of belief, we can place Agnostic, in it's general use, under atheism. It just makes things really confusing when things are used differently when the general conversation labels things incompletely.
#90 to #84 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
I'll admit, it would be easier with everyone using the same definition. I'm using the Oxford English definition of atheism, being described as believing that there is no God, and agnosticism: the belief that we can not know if any religion (a word I use to encompass atheism, because of the definition I used above. )
#39 to #35 - tomthehippie (03/16/2013) [-]
Only is states quite clearly that if you don't have a chance to hear the word, God takes that into account.

Its under the same idea as children who die too young to know the difference between right and wrong getting a free pass.
User avatar #28 to #20 - xsap (03/16/2013) [-]
Richard Dawkings is a boss
#26 to #20 - sixfishsticks (03/16/2013) [-]
great men all around
#47 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
I won't bow to something, That I've never seen.
I can't believe in something, that doesn't believe in me...
I'm not blood of your blood, I'm no son of your god.

User avatar #142 to #47 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Obviously, you don't know the meaning of the word "faith"
#52 to #47 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
I can't believe in something, that doesn't believe in me...


and yeah be all macho it will make you more likable on the internet
#59 to #52 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
yes. How can one believe in something that already knows that it's "Creation" is going to do wrong and go against the "Creator" believing that I will suddenly realize all of my past mistakes and such.

"He" doesn't believe that you will be faithful, "He" doesn't believe that you will live a holy life so "He" doesn't believe in me.
#82 to #59 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
it's not about him, it's about us. the book of life is already written according to th bible. but i don't know if i'm in it, that's the problem
#88 to #82 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
Does that frighten you? does that make you tremble? the question is not why you are not in the book. BUT why shouldn't you be in the book.
#64 to #59 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
go to comment 31 for dat
#25 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
Iv always saw a flaw in the whole all knowing and all forgiving thing, because based off gods actions in the bible and the fact that there is a hell to begin with, shows he is either one or neither but not both. I mean if he knows you're gonna be a bad person and sends you to hell anyways that doesnt show forgiveness, and dont give me "you have to ask for forgiveness" line because thats like your boss saying here is a project I know you're going to fail at and when you do im going to fire you, but if you want to keep your job you have to apologize to me. And if you are judged by your actions then clearly he cant know them beforehand or he will have judged you as soon as your born. Just voicing my views, no hate intended.
#41 to #25 - tehcookee (03/16/2013) [-]
first of all let's assume there is a god and all that jazz... free will, every one has free will to do what they please. You are right in saying god is omnipotent, so why would he put us on earth to test us if he already knows the decisions we are going to make? But you are wrong on the whole 'forgiveness' aspect, according to the belief: to be forgiven, you need to ask for it. that's the way it works in that religion. It may not be your personal idea, but thats not what we're talking about._
#31 to #25 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
you see god does this so he has evidence that you failed him he can just toss you in hell and say that you are not going to warship him and that you will make sins buuuuut you will tell him that you wouldnt and that he should give you a chance to show him

and one more thing....
when you go to hell. angels of hell will stand around asking all of you "werent there messengers? and stuff like that to torture you mentally "

now you get it?

BTW im not christian
#42 to #31 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
But he would know whether or not you would forgive or not.
And hell kind of seems like a pointless tool, seeing how humans were around for tens of thousands of years before the religions we know today not knowing what it is or that there was a god to ask. And there's also Eastern beliefs that have no concept of either, but separate ideology that they made without influence from the Middle East and westward from there.
That kind of thing makes it really hard to understand on so many levels.
#48 to #42 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
for every race and time there was a messenger and if people followed the messenger of their time they will be going to heaven

But he would know whether or not you would forgive or not.
can you please explain? i dont understand this
#62 to #48 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
There wasn't always a messenger, writing is only like 6,000 years old, and word of mouth doesn't really stick. As for artwork, I haven't seen any artwork about the supernatural before, so that doesn't much give any early humans a chance like...ever.

And what I was saying if he knows everything, then he would know if you were going to *ask (my bad) for forgiveness or not. Besides, forgiveness for what? Original sin? There was no Adam and Eve so that kinda goes bye-bye, so what's left to stand on that matter?
User avatar #71 to #62 - amegaara (03/16/2013) [-]
ok lets picture this
"you are created and then put in a line and some people are going to the right and some people are going to the left
you ask around about what this is and no one knows all you know that on the right there is a beautiful place with everything and on the left the heat can come to you even tho its miles away so you are naturally afraid of the place then comes your turn you are wishing that you can go to the right to the beautiful place but then you are ordered to go to the left path the one with heat unbearable to man you question why you were sent there and then you are prompted that you are a bad person and that you deserve this" does this sound logical to you? and yeah sorry for no commas or any sort of punctuation

and for the record i am a muslim so when you ask questions that you got from the bible i might or might not answer them (depending on if they were in the quran)
User avatar #72 to #71 - amegaara (03/16/2013) [-]
and btw you think that word of mouth doesnt stick but it does and as i said each and every man on earth have had a viable religion of his time as for your second argument
#94 to #72 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
I'm not sure how your paragraph is relevant. I was saying that this god is supposed to be all knowing, therefore knowing whether or not you would ask for forgiveness.
That actually would sound logical if the person saw the life they were being punished for, but it doesn't work that way, people wouldn't go to the afterlife ignorant of their initial life.
And no, it still wouldn't work because humans didn't always know how to convey ideas. And why humans anyways? We're like the last couple minutes on the clock of Earth before midnight (the present). We're like 120,000 or so years old, we're on a family tree that dates back in a (beautiful I might add) family tree hierarchy all the way to 3.7 billion years ago, and the universe was about 10 billion years old. Was there a messenger then too?
User avatar #113 to #94 - ccben (03/16/2013) [-]
Look at it like a tree, you can follow any branch and get different results. This doesn't mean that the way a tree grows can not be predicted. Just like with humans the path they will take is almost set. For everything you do it changes something about your life. So human life can be seen as trying to predict the highest tree branch, you can guess but without seeing the end anything could change it.
#157 to #113 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
I don't think you properly understand natural selection and mutation, nor would I imagine you properly understand abiogenesis.
#101 to #94 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
when there were humans there were messengers ok? thats all im saying im not saying when there were dinosaurs there were messengers all im saying is when there were humans there were messengers to convey the message of god
#108 to #101 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
Humans haven't always been able to communicate, and they also would have had a completely different god by the time they could communicate and start talking about a god, or believed in many. And the "message of god" implies there's only one, and as if this god is the Christian god, who has a terrible history of infanticide and genocide and petty irrational hatred, or if this is the Islamic god that wants his creation to be totally subordinate to him, and never reach full potential of humanity above godlike status, which would mean he is a horrible and jealous parent, and any parent who hasn't been infected by religious bias towards children would want their child to surpass them, every sane parent.
This "message of god" comes in many many forms and contradicts itself constantly.
User avatar #116 to #108 - ccben (03/16/2013) [-]
I would like to point out that the Islamic god and the Christian God are the same God
#156 to #116 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
No, they can't be. Both religions have different stories and did different things, meaning they can't be the same one. Allah calls for more submission and is not a Triune God, and supposedly made man from blood, and the prophecies call for different favorites of god. They aren't compatible for they simply are different gods.
User avatar #8 - galaxyguy (03/16/2013) [-]
Actually, according to Dante's 'Inferno' he'd end up in Limbo, the outermost circle of Hell.
User avatar #18 to #8 - bluegoose (03/16/2013) [-]
according to dante, that would be purgatory. but im just being technical.
#22 - Peterid (03/16/2013) [-]
Theology student here. Not meaning to offend, just relating what the Bible says...

Man was created and rebelled against God. Essentially treason, and how do you punish treason? Death.
Because of the rebellion of the first man and woman, it becomes the nature of man and woman to rebel.
Creation itself declares the glory of God, thus, none can claim ignorance.
God, having mercy upon the world, becomes human in the man Jesus Christ to become the example for the world.
Dies, in perfect sacrifice for all who will follow him.
Resurrects, in example of mastery over death and hell.
Makes simple requirement for absolution: believe in Jesus as God incarnate, accept his sacrifice in substitute for one's own treason, and in turn, renounce one's own earthly life for eternal life.

"He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep for that which he cannot lose." -Jim Elliot

I know that Christianity isn't the most popular on the internet in general, and I blame the self-proclaimed "Christians" who forget love (which is considered the most important commandment) for the sake of social issues. The Bible condemns this, specifically. I honestly believe in the reality of hell, and I only say this in an honest desire that no one would end up there.

As Penn Gillette said, if I truly believe this, there's only so long before I tackle you out of the way.
#54 to #22 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
Wouldn't that be like a software flaw, being that this god is powerful enough to create and destroy and remake, yet never decides to update his software properly?
Then he murders nearly 2 million of his creation, like 70,000 innocent, and aborts many women, kills children and commits infanticide, but then tries to make a good example?
And the bible also says that the whole bible is inspired by God and it's not to be personally interpreted, and it goes on throughout the bible to have horrible sexist laws and over-sensitive laws and slavery laws?
What kind of example is really going on here?
User avatar #97 to #54 - ccben (03/16/2013) [-]
The Bible was written for the times. Just like if was written now most of those laws would not be there. Also most of those laws happened in the old testament before Jesus.
User avatar #29 to #22 - bigredthunder (03/16/2013) [-]
Is it really a sacrifce if you respawn?
#49 to #29 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
Yes, because while Jesus was on the cross he bore our sin and God's full wrath for our sin. In other words, he literally went through hell.
Some Christians believe he went there for the three days that he was dead, others believe that he took God's wrath while on the cross, but its pretty accepted across Christianity that he took the complete punishment for our sins in our place.

I hope this answers your question.
User avatar #70 to #49 - Greevon (03/16/2013) [-]
Well damn, I wish I could just have three days of hell and then be like "Okay, we're done here."
Of course, I suppose I haven't lived a perfect life untouched by sin.
User avatar #150 to #49 - bigredthunder (03/16/2013) [-]
then why do we still go to hell? and what happened to everyone before Jesus?
#40 to #29 - tomthehippie (03/16/2013) [-]
Its like if you were playing a co-op game and took a shot for your buddy on your zero life, but that gave you enough points for a 1 up.

Also there is the slight loophole that although in heaven everyone gets a perfect body, Jesus will eternally keep every wound received during his crucifixion.

That means he gets to spend the rest of eternity with large portions of his skin missing, as well as holes in his side, wrists and feet.
User avatar #151 to #40 - bigredthunder (03/16/2013) [-]
so god now has holes in his body? why did he go through all that anyway im sure he could have just gotten rid of original sin.
#152 to #151 - tomthehippie (03/16/2013) [-]
But he gave man free will. He gave man the ability to tell god to go **** himself.

He didn't want slaves, he already has angels for that, he wanted children.

And through Christ he did. All he asks is that you believe.
User avatar #153 to #152 - bigredthunder (03/16/2013) [-]
I was pretty sure man got freewill from eating the apple and he then kicked man out of paradise for that.
#154 to #153 - tomthehippie (03/16/2013) [-]
Wrong, the apple gave man knowledge of good and evil.

Free will was given to man in the beginning.
User avatar #155 to #154 - bigredthunder (03/16/2013) [-]
I was unaware of that, still what i was saying is why did he have to go through all the shenanigans with Christ anyway? Being an omnipotent god he could have just said congratulations I forgive you for your sin. If he was a forgiving god..
#159 to #155 - tomthehippie (03/16/2013) [-]
As an expression of his love, and because there is a debt to pay. The debt of sin is death. So a death is owed. Instead of requiring our death, he died himself.

There for, you believe, you're forgiven.
#98 - envinite (03/16/2013) [-]
I'm surprised this wasn't posted in atheism channel
User avatar #140 to #118 - Crusader (03/16/2013) [-]
Look below, I'm trying to show the you don't have to evangelical to be christian.
User avatar #17 - HordeyWordey (03/16/2013) [-]
If you stop doing it, does it matter? Ex post facto, you don't go to prison for doing something illegal while it was legal. Now that you know, and assuming you stop doing it, it doesn't matter.
User avatar #21 - mattdoggy (03/16/2013) [-]
Having a personal relationship with Christ is the sure way to get into Heaven. If you love him and accept him into your heart and life you are in. That's all he wants is to have a relationship with you. For those who haven't heard and accepted him you get judged based on your deeds i believe, i'm not 100% sure on that but i am taking classes to learn more about it.
An also interesting fact to know that Jesus's coming could not have been set at a more perfect time. They think that less than only 2% of civilized humans as we know them to have ever lived were alive before him, the other 98% have come after then.
#16 - urbemarmis (03/16/2013) [-]
jesus died for all of mankinds sins. that being said everyone gets into heaven. i still believe some people go to hell, but they really have to **** up baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. i believe that all people should use parts of the bible for their moral code. love everyone dont kill steal etc. even if theyre an atheist they can still take bits and pieces from the bible and try to apply them to real life without acknowledging a presence of some kind of deity
#38 to #16 - anon (03/16/2013) [-]
i dont believe that jesus died for our sins i dont believe that jesus even died

that just seems like a phrase that preachers would do to make people like christianaty
it just feels like a cheat code
#109 - garymotherfinoak (03/16/2013) [-]
This image has expired
This is coming from a pretty religious Christian.
You have to remember that the books of the bible were written by a bunch of old guys 2000+ years ago. They were very, very wise, but the times were different. Any ridiculous statement like being gay is a sin (which was a misinterpreted verse anyway, it had something to do with tampering with the property of your neighbor) or ones that don't believe in god or haven't heard of him don't go to heaven, should not be taken seriously today. If god made us and planned for genetics to be the way we develop, why did he allow there to be a gay gene if it's supposedly a sin? because it isn't. It was determined as a sin by a person or small group of people 2000 years ago, which at the time, they didn't know better. If a person was raised hindu but is an extremely kind and moral person, he wont rot in hell simply because he follows his heart in what he believes, he'll get a VIP ticket and get permission to cut to the front of the line when entering the golden gates. Now I supposed believing in god in the form he wants to be represented in does give you an advantage i suppose, Say a devout catholic that prays out of his heart everyday, is an african slave owner, corrupt businessman and rapist, he won't be seeing pearly gates any time soon. I feel that everyone has an opportunity to get into whatever form of heaven their is. Just be a good person and do not act unjust for the sake of doing so. Follow a good path or morals and stick by them, help others and serve the essence of Good.
Thank you for reading. If you didn't, I don't really give a damn.
Pic kinda related
#6 - nashezbaernon (03/16/2013) [-]
Full quote with cred to author
User avatar #100 - dengekisushi (03/16/2013) [-]
I want to go to Hell because that's where Little Nicky is.
#13 - admiralamory **User deleted account** has deleted their comment [-]
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