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#13 - lawyerdude (03/08/2013) [-]
Obama to the rescue
User avatar #15 to #13 - TheMather ONLINE (03/08/2013) [-]
That's communism. Obama's leading towards socialism.
At least get your facts straight before you try being funny.
User avatar #19 to #15 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
No. Not socialism. Fascism. His Health Care Act is the definition of fascism, where the state controls competition. Not to mention the NDAA, the Kill List, the extension of the misnamed Patriot Act.
User avatar #43 to #19 - smokingman (03/08/2013) [-]
So health care is fascism.
Then most european counties are fascist dictatorships.
Thank you, i never noticed that.
User avatar #45 to #43 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
Way to make me say something that I obviously didn't say.

Health Care isn't fascism, no, but requiring people to buy health insurance (what the affordable health care act does), is.
User avatar #52 to #45 - smokingman (03/08/2013) [-]
You americans have the tendency to confund morality and politics; maybe a relic of the puritan fundaments of american society.
What if it's fascism?
Is fascism bad?
How many bad things have the US governments done?
User avatar #55 to #52 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
Sorry that's unprovoked force.
User avatar #54 to #52 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
The use of force is always immoral.
User avatar #56 to #54 - smokingman (03/08/2013) [-]
Then the US governments, and thus the people behind them, are deeply immoral.
How many proxy wars, how many war crimes?
How many civilians dead?
User avatar #62 to #56 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
Did you think that I would disagree with that?
User avatar #72 to #62 - smokingman (03/08/2013) [-]
No, I did not.
I just don't like morality to be involved in politics.
Politics are a mean trough which society mediates economical interests.
That's it, no good/evil, fascism/democracy.
Only money.
User avatar #77 to #72 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
That's economics.
User avatar #79 to #77 - smokingman (03/08/2013) [-]
What is the role of politicians?
Representing and promoting interests.
As I said, money.
You can argue my statements, not Marx's.
User avatar #60 to #56 - alyosha (03/08/2013) [-]
I love how you turned "Obama's leaning towards socialism" into an attack on the US for killing innocent civilians.

Because the two are completely related and there's a clear logical flow from one to the other.
User avatar #64 to #60 - smokingman (03/08/2013) [-]
Oh i have nothing to say about Obama.
I just question morality.
User avatar #21 to #19 - TheMather ONLINE (03/08/2013) [-]
Facism is when the state holds supreme power. Health care controlled by the government and paid for by tax money is socialism.
User avatar #24 to #21 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
That's not what the Affordable health care act does. It's essentially ordering people and companies to purchase health care and extends medicare benefits. It's a form of fascism, though not it's purest form. Fascism is also marked by Private profits and public losses: i.e bailouts.
User avatar #25 to #24 - TheMather ONLINE (03/08/2013) [-]
Going by what it does, so is socialist healthcare. And no, that's still not facism. Go read up on your political theory before you try accusing someone of facism.
User avatar #26 to #25 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
"Fascism operated from a Social Darwinist view of human relations. Their aim was to promote superior individuals and weed out the weak. In terms of economic practice, this meant promoting the interests of successful businessmen while destroying trade unions and other organizations of the working class. Historian Gaetano Salvemini argued in 1936 that fascism makes taxpayers responsible to private enterprise, because "the State pays for the blunders of private enterprise... Profit is private and individual. Loss is public and social. Fascist governments encouraged the pursuit of private profit and offered many benefits to large businesses, but they demanded in return that all economic activity should serve the national interest."

Socialism is the public ownership of the means of production, and public ownership of the good produced by said means.

Fascism has private ownership of the means of production but the government tells you what to do with it and how you could use the goods that come out of it. We have economic fascism right now, not Socialism. Fascism goes by many names, Corporatism, and Crony Capitalism just to name a few.

User avatar #30 to #26 - TheMather ONLINE (03/08/2013) [-]
If you haven't noticed, several of the points in that description for facism go against Obama's policies. What you have is a transitional system from the gradual implementation of socialism.
User avatar #36 to #30 - thisusernameisalie (03/08/2013) [-]
Fascist governments have always said that it was for the good of a society. Hitler justified his action by giving the people's wealth back from the Jews, creating living space. Even though fascism is a form of social darwinism, it masquerades itself as being benign.

Fascism and Socialism does share many common features. According to Sheldon Richmen, an economist with econlib.org, "As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer."
User avatar #18 to #15 - lawyerdude (03/08/2013) [-]
User avatar #20 to #18 - TheMather ONLINE (03/08/2013) [-]
Nope, social democrat.
#69 to #20 - anon (03/08/2013) [-]
what's the difference?
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