English Teachers. So true (not OC). For instance: "The curtains were blue.” Laugh nut mud on / ). I remember getting into afull blown agrument with my english teacher about the Lord of the Rings. He kept insisting it was an allegory of the secong world war,
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What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#18 - iamsammich (02/05/2013) [-]
Blue's FW
Blue's FW
User avatar #23 to #18 - RisenLichen ONLINE (02/05/2013) [-]
its spelled Bloo
#25 to #23 - iamsammich (02/05/2013) [-]
**** , how could I forget
#31 - lysitsa (02/05/2013) [-]
I beg to differ. Curtains insists that him and Blue are just friends.

I'm a personal friend of Curtains.
User avatar #6 - cowinspace (02/04/2013) [-]
I remember getting into afull blown agrument with my english teacher about the Lord of the Rings. He kept insisting it was an allegory of the secong world war, despite the fact that I pointed out Tolkeins own forward which stated, quite clearly, that it had nothing to do with either war. In fact it was Tolkeins intent that there be no hidden subtext as the story was meant to be there for it's own sake. Got a three day suspension for hitting him with my hardback copy of the trilogy.
#37 to #6 - graknab (02/05/2013) [-]
Actually, it is recognized as an allegory for both WW1 and WW2. It's not a direct representation, but it is believed that these were inspiration for the story and setting.

Source ( http://voices.yahoo.com/lord-rings-world-war-ii-allegory-503521.html )

"If we look at the map that Tolkien drew concerning his world then we would see that it looks a lot like Modern Europe without Italy. Mordor, the land of evil, is more or less in the location of Germany. Gondor, the land of the white city - the city of Kings, is in the location of France. And finally, the Shire, which is obviously England, is remotely north-left of everything. What happen to Rohan and the land of the elves? And how do we know that this is true? Throughout the books and movies there are given symbols to show us."

First of all, anyone who has ever studied European history knows that France use to be divide into two major sects: Provence, the south and France, the north (France here meaning the land of the Franks). Therefore, the South, or in this case Gondor, was the old city - the classic France stereotype. The North was the land of the Franks - a Viking-like people, this is Rohan. Númenor or Andor, the land of the elves appears to be the northern Scandinavia states. Why? The people are very thin and pale. They fit the stereotype perfectly. However, this idea could easily be argued.

Supporting the idea of Mordor being Germany:

1) Its location

2) Being the center of evil; of beings of an inhumane nature which desires to kill. In my opinion, this is a distortion of Nazi Germany.
User avatar #42 to #37 - cowinspace (02/05/2013) [-]
I think I'll side with Tolkein who was trying to create a truly english mythos (rather than one steeped in germanic and scandinavian influences), instead of making **** up that Tolkein himself said was wrong.

People need to stop over-analysing things.
#68 to #37 - keroberios (02/06/2013) [-]
You must be one of those fellows that looks at a painting of a red, blue, and yellow line and writes a 600 page thesis on it's artistic significance.
User avatar #38 to #37 - graknab (02/05/2013) [-]
"Gondor is France for several reasons:

1) Its location lies directly to the west of Mordor.

2) Contains the White City, the city of Kings. France is very proud of their 40 Kings. They are the center of modern and prehistoric history.

3) In the main hall of the King in the White City there is a distinct décor. Over the doors there is a Romanesque design of black and white interchanging bricks. This is the same as Vézlay, a famous roman cathedral in the middle of France.

And finally, the Shire as England:

1) Its location

2) It being a land of freedom and simple life. Interestingly enough these books were written by an Englishman, and therefore, like anyone else writing from their perspective, their culture will be the perfect culture.

Above all, this story has taken pieces of the Great Wars and applied Tolkien's real life experiences into a story that is as worldly real as it is spiritually real. There is symbolism in this book that stretches beyond that of a good war story and into the spirituality and truth of Christianity."
#67 to #38 - keroberios (02/06/2013) [-]
I want to stab you, not because 90% of everything you said is inane. Because you brought religion into a LotR discussion.
**** you.
Go die in a fire.
#21 to #6 - lmaobutts ONLINE (02/05/2013) [-]
Over-reaction much...
Over-reaction much...
#15 to #6 - helenwheels (02/04/2013) [-]
You sound mentally stable.
User avatar #30 to #15 - cowinspace (02/05/2013) [-]
The cocktail of drugs from my doctor can certainly confirm the sarcastic intent behind your statement. :)
#39 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
I can't agree with that. I've gone through more poetry in my English class than most people ever should, and every single detail has meaning. Of course, poetry does not equal prose, but just think about it:

Why would the author say the curtains were blue if it didn't have significance. The only reason is if the author was describing his environment and was trying to create a visual for his audience, but even then there's significance there.

Just my two cents.
#41 to #39 - blackandwhitegod (02/05/2013) [-]
Cool story. Wrong, but cool story.
User avatar #63 to #39 - bloodysita (02/05/2013) [-]
I'm writing a novel that is based around a young college boy who lives in a small town in upstate new york. The town he lives in is based off of my home town. There was a gas station with peeling blue paint when I lived there. When my character goes to the gas station, he notices the blue paint. Because it was blue. Of course, I do have several instances of allusion and symbolism that are intended to be symbolic, but the gas station walls are blue BECAUSE THE GAS STATION WALLS ARE BLUE.
#66 to #63 - keroberios (02/06/2013) [-]
Thank you. Sometimes things have a color just to set a scene. It can be completely irrelevant to the overall story, but it adds a nice little touch. It means nothing, but in your head, the building is now worn and blue.
**************** .
It is not some big thing about deeper meanings.
Its blue.
End of discussion.
And I hate how people think it applies to every author in every situation.
#54 to #39 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
Poetry and a novel are completely different. In a story, you have to paint a scene of the location so the reader understands where it's taking place.
"It was a small room, devoid of many furnishings, besides a peculiar set of blue curtains that were hung over the window." Could have hidden subtext, yes, but most of the time its just so the reader knows what the house looks like.
#3 - miwauturu (02/04/2013) [-]
Except authors don't waste words. If they bothered to point out the colour of the curtains then there's a damn good chance they wanted to say something with the colour of the curtains. Besides, ultimately it doesn't even matter what the author thinks, what matters is what can be drawn out of the story. Your own interpretations. To quote NYT bestselling author John Green

"Whether an author intentionally put a metaphor in a book is completely irrelevant. The reason metaphors exist in books is not so that your English teachers can torture you by having you search for them but instead because reading critically and nonliterally is a huge part of being a person: It is through metaphor and symbolism that we enter into the life of someone else, and begin to ask their big questions as if they were our own."

Honestly, whenever this post shows up again all I can think of it as being is anti-intellectualism ******** .
#22 to #3 - keroberios (02/05/2013) [-]
I have to disagree with this assessment. I take great pride in spending a fair chunk of my free time writing short stories that my friends and I pass around. Back in highschool I had a discussion like this come up, where the teacher was asking what certain things represented. When he tossed out some BS about the color of the sheets on someones bed I brought the whole class to a stop and said something along the lines of. "You think that his sheets represent his envy for the protagonist? Did it ever occour to you that maybe, just maybe the character likes that color?" The teacher and I got into a huge argument. Almost got me in serious trouble, like disrespecting authority crap and talking to the principal.

It is definately possible that an author sometimes just uses a color to set a scene. It helps flesh out the image that they are trying to show you. Arguing the use of color on ojects is just as inanae in books as it is movies. I mean, seriously, what does the green of Frodo's cape represent in Lord of the Rings when Sam is talking to Smegul about potatos? I think it totally represents his feelings about the futility of their journey and his concern that they might not make it all the way to Mt. Doom.
Yah. Some teachers are just that stupid.
#53 to #22 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
Well, I'm sorry that you had such a petty teacher, but it is their job to argue with you to a certain extent. At the highschool level (and much of college), the Maths and Sciences are definitive and well-proven, thus a student isn't offered much opportunity to critically reach their own conclusions. In English, however, there is a greater opportunity to explore each individual's critical analysis and offer up the challenges of forcing them to them to debate and grow, and the best teachers offer their opinions not as law, but rather as impetus to inspire their students (be it through argumentation or exposition). The geniuses of tomorrow are not going to be defined by whether or not they are able to come up with a precisely "right" answer; they are going to be defined by whether or not they are able to re-interpret contemporary problems in multiple, innovative ways to help offer fresh, albeit temporary, solutions.

You, as a writer, should be conscious enough of your audience to realize that creating meaning beyond the surface value of your words--while not your prime focus--is indeed a valuable tool that many choose to exercise in creating an interesting work of art. The very act of doing so can entice the reader to generate multiple responses independent from your own vision, and it is the intermingling of the reader's response and the writer's vision that gives literature value beyond mere entertainment.
#45 to #22 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
I think you also have to recognize who's prose you are reading. If I was to read something by Bernard Cromwell I would not even think of looking for metaphors or analogies, but that is not his intention is writing. In contrast, if I pick up something by Flaubert or Kafka (two staples of many college lit courses) I am going to examine it much more closely. I think rejecting the idea that authors may write books for more than just entertainment purposes is sophomoric. ( I am not calling you sophomoric)
#65 to #45 - keroberios (02/06/2013) [-]
I do not have a problem with works of accredited authors known for layering their work being analyzed. That’s what they do; of course it should be studied. But not every author is out to layer their work with 30 kinds of allegory and metaphor on each page. Sometimes a starry night is just that. It is night, and there are stars. Other times it is used to make a character, and therefore the reader, feel small and insignificant.
I personally do not start writing and aim to fill my story with sub text and other crap. I'm out to tell a good story, and you'll be damn sure by the end of it the story has been told.
But then again I am a man of fantasy. Not just fiction. I prefer to create large and intricate worlds that will appeal to an audience that will see my vision; Rather than aim to write a book that will live on as my legacy. Sure, you can call that vision sophomoric. It probably is, seeing as I'm not perusing a secondary education. But it's how/what I enjoy writing and reading.
If I need a notebook to keep track of all of the hidden meanings in everything, I am not enjoying the text any more. At that point reading has become more akin to work, and is therefore no longer a place of respite for me.
#36 to #3 - irishlawyer (02/05/2013) [-]
But there is a fine line between pointing out all of the rhetorical devices and such in a piece of literature, and over analyzing every single word in the book/novel/poem/etc...
#40 to #3 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
Unless your JD Salinger in which case you turn a 50 page story into a 214 pg book by adding insane amounts of unnecessary detail

Then it is acceptable to waste words
#43 to #3 - blackandwhitegod (02/05/2013) [-]
Well this isn't funny, so it must be junk.

Mostly though I think you are wrong.
#20 to #3 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
There are more effective ways at teaching someone to think about others than looking for metaphors and symbols in literature.

The main job of the English professor should be to teach their students effective communication through writing.

The post itself is criticizing teachers who teach their personal opinions about a book to their students. I respect the teachers that do this as much as I respect the people who say Pokemon is about a child in a coma. Just because someone has a different opinion than you does not mean they are anti-intellectual.
#19 - sleepisfortheweak (02/05/2013) [-]
#17 - xtremehivoltage (02/04/2013) [-]
Story time: I said this when we read Romeo and Juliet last year. I had not seen this before... (gif semi-related)
Story time: I said this when we read Romeo and Juliet last year. I had not seen this before... (gif semi-related)
#27 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
Teacher: "!" this shows his frustration and thereby also marking the point where his mental state begins progressing toward the worse and how he is loosing power over...

Writer: "!" He was frustrated.
#4 - montybalboa (02/04/2013) [-]
Yeah, there's a reason the books you read and analyse in class are considered world-class. The authors rarely waste a single word.
#46 - kuracha (02/05/2013) [-]
The blue curtains represent his face during auto-erotic asphyxiation and masturbation.
#52 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
Jesus Christ, I have never read a truer thing.
User avatar #48 - thesoulless (02/05/2013) [-]
Logically, though, the author wouldn't have just outright said that the curtains were blue if it didn't mean anything.
#34 - qwesda (02/05/2013) [-]
Talking about Lord of the Flies in english, Simon suggests using bark for paper. The teacher says. "It means simon is going to be associated with nature and know so much, he will also be a productive member of the group and contribute much"
User avatar #35 to #34 - Marker ONLINE (02/05/2013) [-]
It means he found something to write on...... goddammit, English teachers!
User avatar #1 - Riukanojutsu (02/04/2013) [-]
hurrr symbolism makes no sense durrr

its typic of americain writing to make everything a symbol deal with it
#2 to #1 - shredmaster (02/04/2013) [-]
What would you know of American writing? From that atrocious spelling and grammar I would say you don't know of writing in general.
User avatar #5 to #2 - Riukanojutsu (02/04/2013) [-]
I cant write in any language, doesnt mean i cant read.
#7 to #5 - arandomanon ONLINE (02/04/2013) [-]
And you can't make sense either.
User avatar #16 to #7 - Riukanojutsu (02/04/2013) [-]
i meant that i have a hard time expressing myself in a written media.

And youre pretty much said you had to be a humorist to laugh at jokes.
User avatar #8 to #7 - frienderman (02/04/2013) [-]
While I mostly agree with you reading and writing are different functions in different parts of the brain.
User avatar #9 to #8 - arandomanon ONLINE (02/04/2013) [-]
Maybe but still... how do you read if you can't write.
#44 to #9 - blackandwhitegod (02/05/2013) [-]
I... I don't even....

Being able to read and speak are much closer to one another than being able to read and writing. It is pretty common knowledge that there have been instances of people who could read but not write. Grammar and spelling has nothing to do with intelligence, but has a lot to do with a uniform way of communicating. That isn't to say some people who sound stupid when they write aren't stupid, but that also isn't to say people who can write properly are intelligent.
User avatar #10 to #9 - frienderman (02/04/2013) [-]
It's an uncommon phenomenon. If you're curious I would suggest reading "Dragons of Eden" by Carl Sagan. Fantastic book on the evolution of the human brain.
User avatar #11 to #10 - arandomanon ONLINE (02/04/2013) [-]
Interesting. I may have a look over it if I have the chance. Thanks.
User avatar #24 to #5 - Blargosnarf (02/05/2013) [-]
Can't write in a language but can read it just fine... wut?
User avatar #32 to #24 - Riukanojutsu (02/05/2013) [-]
as you can see i can write, though i make a lot of mistakes thats what i meant, i dnot understand why everyone one is taking that literaly
#62 - snaresinger (02/05/2013) [-]
Aside from the fact that this is a repost, this is not always true. Sometimes, authors have a message to get out there, and the only way they can convey it with subtlety, substance and a good story is through metaphor. Don't bitch just because you won't apply yourself and get literature. I don't get it either most of the time, but at least I open my mind.
User avatar #50 - jafkdb (02/05/2013) [-]
It's worse in a film class.
#49 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
i'm guessing the middle, is what you put in the test.
User avatar #47 - thestant (02/05/2013) [-]
English teacher here - It's true that not EVERY detail is significant, but you can bet that the author included them for a good reason. Further, the author's meaning doesn't dictate what YOU get out of the story, and so those details do have a deeper meaning to each and every reader. A good teacher will ask that you explore those meanings and support them. Every answer is correct as long as you can support it using the text.
#69 to #47 - keroberios (02/06/2013) [-]
"Anon looked out through the bedroom window and down onto the street. His blue curtains fluttered silently in the light morning breeze."
Well now Mr. English Teacher. Analyze that **** , because if you come closer I'll tell you a secret.


Good. They're blue, because I said so. If I had just said curtains, well, they could be ANY curtains. But these ones, they're blue. Are they silk curtains? Perhaps even sheer. Maybe, just maybe they could be polyester. WHO KNOWS! Because I haven’t said anything, they are just blue cloth waving in the wind. If I hadn't said blue, they could be any color. But I wanted blue. Why? Because I like blue. I think blue makes nice curtains. They could be green. It's not that hard to change it. Even to white if I felt like it.
Sometimes, things are mentioned for little more than to give the setting life. It didn't take years of college level English classes to tell me that.
#55 to #47 - nobleknight ONLINE (02/05/2013) [-]
I've had English teachers tell me I was wrong on what I thought the story meant.
User avatar #56 to #55 - thestant (02/05/2013) [-]
In my opinion, there are certainly stronger answers, but if you can back it up using the text in a sincere and believable way, then it is definitely correct.
#57 to #56 - nobleknight ONLINE (02/05/2013) [-]
My teachers think as follows: What teacher says is correct and whatever I say is always wrong. Sorry for bad grammar.
User avatar #29 - jtblip (02/05/2013) [-]
I've seen this so many times, you think for as long as this would have been around, someone would have at least changed up the wording by now.
#26 - anon (02/05/2013) [-]
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** why do you call yourself a *****
***** ***** ***** ***** ***** BECAUSE I'M A MOTHER ******* ******
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