The Ideal Government. Let's debate in a civilized manner.. Imaging you Iife” in IEA the nude in .. JOIN THE CYBERMAN EMPIRE OR BE DELETED the intenet is a reasonable place to discuss Government and Religion
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The Ideal Government

The Ideal Government. Let's debate in a civilized manner.. Imaging you Iife” in IEA the nude in .. JOIN THE CYBERMAN EMPIRE OR BE DELETED

Let's debate in a civilized manner.

Imaging you Iife” in
nude in .
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Submitted: 12/11/2012
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#50 - hattaz ONLINE (12/12/2012) [-]
#33 - maddboiy (12/12/2012) [-]
even though im a firm atheist i like the Hindu idea of reincarnation and the Buddhist ideas about karma, if you lead a good life then you will come back as something equally as good.
even though im a firm atheist i like the Hindu idea of reincarnation and the Buddhist ideas about karma, if you lead a good life then you will come back as something equally as good.
User avatar #171 to #33 - bluedwarf (12/12/2012) [-]
Those are good as directions in how to act in life, but nothing special besides that
#59 to #33 - slantedvanity (12/12/2012) [-]
I thought I was the only one who thought that way.
I thought I was the only one who thought that way.
User avatar #88 to #59 - barrels (12/12/2012) [-]
There is a religion about it and you thought you were the only one?
#62 to #59 - maddboiy (12/12/2012) [-]
welcome to the club brother
welcome to the club brother
#112 - envinite ONLINE (12/12/2012) [-]
***** , now the comment section is full with narrative-scaled essay argument
#130 - finni (12/12/2012) [-]
mfw I see Religion + Internet
mfw I see Religion + Internet
User avatar #1 - Protagonistism (12/11/2012) [-]
Didn't see that coming.
#168 - tonyxx (12/12/2012) [-]
This image has expired
#85 - vikdane (12/12/2012) [-]
Oh ffs... here we go again.

Where it says I will burn in hell if I question the bible? On the contreary, even Jesus say "seek and you shall find" and he challenged the way the religious looked at the sciptures back then(Martin Luther did as well), so why shouldnt we?

And another thing I find so damn annoying is that people over and over again bring up examples in the old testament trying to justify their own opinion. One thing I have seen often:"Yeah bible say to us not to boil a baby goat in its mother's milk, hur hur!" - No it does not you retards! It doesn't say that to US... according to the bible, WE (non-jews..count for most of us I believe) have got the law of Noah to follow. These are 7 laws, not the 613 laws the israelites got back THEN to keep.

So you don't think many of the laws in the old testament doesn't go hand in hand with our lifes today 3000-4000 years later for non-israelites? Well ******* fantastic, there is a good reason for that, Sherlock.

The OC doesnt ask an objective question in general, it's full of BS based on either fanatical roman catholicism (whatever..) or simple ignorance.

Religious people: Stop getting butt-hurt. You too, atheists. And for all: just because your fan of Jesus or Steven Hawking on your FACEBOOK, doesn't mean you are that person.

******* kids...

User avatar #129 to #85 - smittywrbmnjnsn (12/12/2012) [-]
Well, let's say the government sets laws. If you don't agree with those laws, and break them, you're incinerated. That more accurately fits to oppose your argument.
Sin is to law.
I disagree with what you label as sin. That's like disobeying the laws set by this government, and as punishment, I am burned as trash.
Now, argue against that please.
#217 to #129 - vikdane (12/13/2012) [-]
What are you talking about? Yes, if my country has a law saying I can't do this and that and if I then do it, then I'll be punished. But first of all... WHAT kind of punishment? Will I be shot if I kill a man? Maybe. But will I get shot if I cross the red light? Probably not.

Second of all, yes, as a Christian, I believe in sin, the law etc. But I also believe in the forgiveness of sins. What I also believe in is what I have already stated: That to compare the 613 laws (mitzvotz in hebrew) given to the Israelites and compare it to a set of cosmic universal rules all of mankind should follow, oppose every logic and frankly as well the Bible as I see it.
User avatar #228 to #217 - smittywrbmnjnsn (12/13/2012) [-]
Valid argument.
I withdraw.
#103 to #85 - whateveridontneed (12/12/2012) [-]
If Religion keeps changing it's doctrine, then of course it's always right. Oh wow the Earth is round? Let's scrap that part. Oh the people are embracing the sexual revolution? Let's scrap stoning. If you are constantly revising your belief, then are you really a religion, or are you an organization constantly trying to revise your mistakes, while spewing out new ones, just to be "rewritten" at a later date?

If everyone goes to Heaven then what's the point of being a Christian? You are going to end up with the blasphemers at the end.
#109 to #103 - vikdane (12/12/2012) [-]
Religion does change its doctrine, the major step in this happend when Martin Luther challenged the Roman Catholic Church and marked the end of its power. He is mostly famous for his 95 theses which were mainly challenging the idea of the purgatory and with that other believes Martin Luther thought was against the teachings of the bible. And he was right. Latin was the thing the bible was written in back then, translated from Koine Greek and Hebrew. These translations were poor at best and that is why Luther challenged the Church.

So sure, religion changes. However it was the Church NOT the bible which stated the earth was flat (btw, the catholic church even claimed it was against God to support the idea of gravity..). And stoning.. didnt Jesus say "let him without sin throw the first stone"? Again, he challenged how the Scripture should be understood.

The thing is that too many people blame the idea of a God on the teachings of the church, and not much else really. And that is just too bad. And they continue to compare the standards of the old testament - mainly given to ONE group of people - to be the answer from God to us today. That is just messed up.
#212 to #109 - whateveridontneed (12/13/2012) [-]
How can God be the ETERNAL truth if everything can be interpreted in a different way? What's the point of the new testament? How long does it take for someone to reinterpret the new testament and write a "brand new testament?" If there is Truth, then clearly religion is not finding it if it changes it's view every time there is a contradiction.

And who is to say which sect is right? If you can't take the Word of God by it's face value and have to subject it to human interpretation, then there is no Truth to be found. Maybe Satan is a representation for wisdom? Maybe Jesus wasn't helping the poor but instead flooded the market with excess supply of bread and thus punished the poor farmers who worked really hard?
#216 to #212 - vikdane (12/13/2012) [-]
Did I say that everything can be interpreted in a different way? I object against how many people completely gets everything twisted around when they compare what God is saying in the Torah and Tanack to a people (Israelites) living 3000-4000 years ago and refer it directly to what Christians should be doing today. That simply doesn't make sense.

The other point I also object about is how the teachings (interpretation) of the Roman Catholic Church should be absolut. Why should a Religious Institution have a monopoly on the truth? Especially when these lay more trust in Latin translations and religious books written by priests than in the Bible written in Greek and Hebrew?

What I like about the Lutherean or Protestant understanding of theology is that they rely on discussions about the understanding of the scriptures, more than on an old man sitting in Rome (if I may be so blunt). If you think this lead to absolute chaos and "no truth", then you lack of understanding the profession of Theology.

You mention we should take the Bible for its "face-value". True. But first of all, it is not that easy for every subject. Second of all, many people doesn't do so, but rely on what they have heard, which is why we can get OC's as stupid as this one.

#221 to #216 - whateveridontneed (12/13/2012) [-]
Everything can be interpreted in a different way, just look at all the different sects in Christianity, even view on polygamy differ completely. Why is that? Because people twist (interpret) the bible to their own values, it's not that hard when somethings are symbolic and somethings are "true," just like the example I gave.
#222 to #221 - vikdane (12/13/2012) [-]
Well, I disagree. It is true that there are many sects in Christianity, most of these however have the one thing in common that they have a self-proclaimed prophet or Messiah people follow blindly. Not so much to do with knowledge or critical interpretation to scripture in a linguistic or historical manner.
#223 to #222 - whateveridontneed (12/13/2012) [-]
That's the point, each has their own interpretation, and since there is no absolute right or wrong when interpreting symbols (see literary analysis), no one can agree with each other. If there is truth in the Bible, religion will never find it.
User avatar #52 - rototornjik (12/12/2012) [-]
not thoughts, deeds.

also, i dont see what is wrong with 10 commandment system.
dont kill, dont steal, respect your parents, dont cheat on your partner, dont speak bout god too much (this could potentially end all religious debates and conflicts, if people minded their own ir/religious business), work for 6 days rest one, have no idols for no one is perfect.

ALSO, getting an immortal robotic body is ******* epic. at least for me.
#101 to #52 - anon (12/12/2012) [-]
you seem to be forgetting that in God's eyes, the thought of doing something that is forbidden by the 10 commandments is just as bad as actually doing it.

I was brought up Roman Catholic, and that's what we were told... could be different for other denominations.
#120 to #101 - johnshepherd (12/12/2012) [-]
That's only for a few of the, actually. These are: Lust, murder and Blasphemy. After that, it is not a sin, it is at worst a near-occasion of sin. I am also Roman Catholic
User avatar #107 to #101 - rototornjik (12/12/2012) [-]
we, the orthodox, have different views.
User avatar #31 - koi (12/12/2012) [-]
A few years ago I watched a documentary on winged helicopters, and it got my mind going. I like to think of humans as really sophisticated seeds, and nothing more. Think about it. We can spread ourselves across any land...even before we had technology that made it easy to do so. We can adapt to just about any environment. And we can reproduce and have a pretty decent ability to keep that offspring alive.

Anyway, I think about this all the time, and I set it next to the debate over whether there is a god or not. I don't know, and I don't care. We are here. We have an energy within us...just as all living things do. We are amazing, thinking, doing seeds. Every living thing on this planet is amazing. Yes, even spiders, internet. We should enjoy everything the world has to offer, and help keep it there for future generations to enjoy as well.

So rather than spending your whole lives debating over whether or not it pays to be a good, devout person, why not just be genuinely good, because that is how it should be in a balanced, working world? Makes sense.

Just a little side note...though I am not religious, I neither put down those who are, nor choose to be a bad person. I do right, and I therefore I feel right. Also, I whisper thank you out loud, whenever something works out for me. It can't hurt. ;)
#136 - beerterror (12/12/2012) [-]
The point about discussing religion is, if you don't know **** about ancient and medieval philosophy, you should keep your mouth goddamn shut.
#6 - dreamcast (12/12/2012) [-]
This made me think of an interesting thing. It makes the point that god pretty much is not an all loving god if he throws people in a burning pit of fire for going against him. I figure it this way. If we look at the possibility that god is an alien on some planet that he happens to rule and god decided to create a new species by using his DNA and DNA of early humanoids to make us, then things become a bit more realistic because humans have the ability now to splice genetics and create new species. So that is a reasonable thought. Now of course if God created man he will want to experiment with us by giving us rules and seeing if we can use our reasoning power to resist simple temptations and believe in him. If we cannot then we are a failed specimen and are destroyed but if we can do so then we prove we are equals and are rewarded. Now im not sure how many of you believe in supernatural things but if you believe that aliens exist and ghosts exist then a god/creator is most definantly possible. I am not really standing up for christians, im just making a point that if denied would prove ignorance from christian or none christian.
#18 to #6 - swordwoman (12/12/2012) [-]
It's simple, we go against the thing that wants to imprison us, no matter what it is.
User avatar #132 - disturbedfan (12/12/2012) [-]
Not quite sure thats how that works (I'm Christian)
User avatar #135 to #132 - sorrowofdaedalus (12/12/2012) [-]
I see it as a pretty damn close description, but that's besides the point. You have an AWESOME taste in music. DISTURBED KICKS ASS!
User avatar #141 to #135 - disturbedfan (12/12/2012) [-]
I will respectfully decide to disagree with your idea on the content posted above.... But thank you :3 they're my favorite band by far ^^
User avatar #146 to #141 - sorrowofdaedalus (12/12/2012) [-]
That's fine. Seriously though, yes, Disturbed is my favorite band as well.
User avatar #149 to #146 - disturbedfan (12/12/2012) [-]
Woot! A fellow fan whos.... Down With the Sickness.... GET IT! :D?

Sorry, I'm done now.....
User avatar #179 to #149 - sorrowofdaedalus (12/12/2012) [-]
Sounds to me as if you've been STRICKEN by the pun disease.
User avatar #133 to #132 - OsamaBinLadenz (12/12/2012) [-]
#116 - johnshepherd (12/12/2012) [-]
Asks for civilized discussion.   
Creates straw-man.
Asks for civilized discussion.

Creates straw-man.
#123 to #116 - anon (12/12/2012) [-]
It's not really a strawman since it doesn't misrepresent it, it simply makes it make sense to others.
#145 to #123 - johnshepherd (12/12/2012) [-]
Actually it is a straw-man. A straw man is not just misinterpretation, it is also over-simplification. It constitutes the rules of mutual respect that are supposed to be present in debate, also known ad the charity principle.
User avatar #138 to #123 - richardastley (12/12/2012) [-]
No, it does misrepresent it because God, at least in the Heaven and Hell sense we're talking about here, represents objective morality, not a government's attempt at morality through law. It also doesn't hold because Christians don't have a perfect grasp of what they believe is right or wrong as a group (different translations of the Bible for different sects means a lot of different interpretations).
User avatar #7 - makedonski (12/12/2012) [-]
I hate when people call themselves god-fearing. Does that sound positive to anyone?
User avatar #8 to #7 - Vandeekree ONLINE (12/12/2012) [-]
Well what if I told you I grew up as a "mom fearing" child?
If you're not afraid of your mom she probably has very little control over you.
User avatar #205 to #8 - makedonski (12/12/2012) [-]
So a good way to live life is to allow an invisible guy in the clouds that has a sweet beard control you. hm.
User avatar #208 to #205 - Vandeekree ONLINE (12/13/2012) [-]
See that's your pride talking. "Guy in the clouds control you" he's not controlling you, as a matter of fact he gives you free reign to do anything within the physically possible and then he tells you what he wants you to do and that there will be consequences for not doing it but also a reward for doing what he says. he lets you pick. So logically your decision to follow these orders should be based on the orders themselves. Is he telling you to hurt other people? Telling you to do something that turns your stomach? From what i have seen no(for me obviously) all he asks is for you to resist your baser urges, separate yourself from the animal, and literally it boils down to "be nice to each other to the point you see their lives and feelings as equal in importance to yours."
You can use sarcasm all you like with "invisible guy in the clouds" but that's cutting him short. He's not human, he's not even finite. And if you can't humble yourself to a supreme being then how can you humble yourself to another human being?
User avatar #224 to #208 - makedonski (12/13/2012) [-]
Well, another human being is physically present- a sentient, tangible being.
User avatar #229 to #224 - Vandeekree ONLINE (12/13/2012) [-]
"One sure mark of a fool is to dismiss anything that falls outside his experience as impossible." Farengar Secret-Fire Whiterun court wizard
User avatar #233 to #229 - makedonski (12/14/2012) [-]
"A Wizard said that" -Makedonski
User avatar #234 to #233 - Vandeekree ONLINE (12/14/2012) [-]
Never played Skyrim huh?
User avatar #236 to #234 - makedonski (12/14/2012) [-]
I have, I just try not to take advice from fictional characters
User avatar #237 to #236 - Vandeekree ONLINE (12/15/2012) [-]
Fictional characters were made by actual people though.
#188 - winsauceiswin (12/12/2012) [-]
wow that got me! nice one!
wow that got me! nice one!
User avatar #128 - WakaTakaBang (12/12/2012) [-]
Never being sad = robot. It all makes sense now.
User avatar #113 - guywithafork (12/12/2012) [-]
The description.
Just- just look at it.

Also repost.
User avatar #28 - sorrowofdaedalus (12/12/2012) [-]
Okay, now figure one for the way Hellenic Polytheism is run.

Don't know what it is? I'll give you the basics.
Thirteen main gods, many minor ones, all of them are all-powerful, but they have one chosen leader and the others have jurisdiction over certain areas, and have a pact with eachother not to overstep these bounds.

Man was created to entertain them. Each person is given a unique set of rules, and while there is a general set of rules that can be USUALLY said to apply to everyone, there are always exceptions. The point of life is to discover your purpose, what role you're meant to play in the Play called life, and in finding that role, be it a murderer or a king, you'll be happy.

Rules for the afterlife:

If you believe in the gods and are a good person, you'll be rewarded more plentifully, given eternal happiness spent with all those fellow followers getting to pray, party, and quite occasionally feast with the gods themselves.

If you don't, yet you are still a good person, you'll be rewarded by going to the fields of asphodel. You will be in a large field with every other non-believer who was a good person, you will never go hungry but also never get to eat.

If you are a follower yet a bad person, you'll be punished HARSHLY dependent on your crime. Suicidal people have to relive their deaths over and over, murderers are killed in ways akin to the suffering brought about their crime repeatedly, thieves must go naked in freezing temperatures and starve to death only to come back and starve again, etc.

If you aren't a follower, but a bad person, you'll never get to reach the underworld. You'll become a spirit in the fade between life and death, with all of the other cruel non-believers, and all of you will tear eachother apart.
#37 to #28 - Spikeydeath (12/12/2012) [-]
my family reunions
#12 - anon (12/12/2012) [-]
So i answerd "yes" , before reading the last panel an i got confused. ive no ida why you wouldnt say yes, unless you like breaking the law.
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