God save our queen. tags are OP. THEISTS filing' l. Wait... what? This is actually an issue in some countries? faggot
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> hey anon, wanna give your opinion?
asd
#25 - captaincabinet **User deleted account**
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User avatar #59 to #25 - AlreadyExists
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(12/10/2012) [-]
I've no issue with people being jolly and saying merry christmas and the like, the only thing I'm personally against is it being brought into schools and other state-sponsored programs because it's unconstitutional and rightly so, and it can potentially alienate not only atheists but anyone who's not of christian faith. That's probably what any reasonably informed atheist'll tell you and anyone who just hates it because people are happy or some reason like that is just a dick. People can be dicks regardless of belief / lack thereof.
User avatar #72 to #59 - brettyoke
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(12/10/2012) [-]
Holy crap, it's not like they open up a new Bible class and force everyone to take it and learn about the Christian origins of Christmas in December.

If a teacher puts up a few lights and says merry christmas, get over it. I've never seen anybody say, "Hey! That student is an athiest! Let's exclude him from every bit of fun we have this holiday season."

Tl;Dr: Get over yourself.
User avatar #85 to #72 - AlreadyExists
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I don't mean to say it shouldn't be practiced in public schools because it alienates me specifically- it's because it lends preference to once group of people over another. I can care less about the extent to which it's practiced or what group it is or anything like that. In principle, I personally find it morally incorrect to include one group of people (religion, race, sex, etc.) and not another in a public facility.

Not like the issue would lie in me being discriminated against since it's hard to identify atheists aren't preaching their lack of belief and even it that weren't the case I'd be about as intimidated being told I'd burn in hell for eternal damnation as I would be for a hippie threatening to punch me in my aura
User avatar #112 to #85 - brettyoke
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So, what I got out of that, was that people who say Merry Christmas in public places are excluding athiests and other non-Christians?

Christmas is widely accepted as a holiday about joy to others and general kindness. Why does it bother you if people are happy about Christmas in public places? You're just as accepted as a part of Christmas as any Christian.
User avatar #218 to #112 - AlreadyExists
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People inclusively saying merry christmas in public places is good imo, but having public schools or governments support a specific religion, even if only through the promotion of that religion's holidays, is not. The difference is that having a government that's tied to one religion or another conflicts with the good 'ole principle of separation of church and state, which is bad for a number of reasons. Just to name a couple, you now have one religion that unfairly is preferred over others, and you start equating religious principles with political ones.

"morally incorrect to include one group of people (religion, race, sex, etc.) and not another in a public facility."
I guess I should have worded that better. Not saying you can't say merry christmas while in a public facility (freedom of speech ftw)- I just don't think public schools and stuff should include one religion over another.
User avatar #349 to #218 - brettyoke
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In public schools, the teachers celebrate Christmas. I understand your concern about people not feeling included, but Christmas is more of a red-and-green Santa Clause fest in school than a Jesus's birthday type holiday. I don't know if you live in America or whatever, but religion is kept out of public institutions to the fullest extent of possibility.
User avatar #319 to #218 - mrbuu
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MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS. The government/people are not out to get you. You are not that important to them. Let people celebrate Christmas and stop being a little bitch about it. You know you don't have to celebrate it,but stop bitching because 9/10 people do. Marry christmas.
#362 to #319 - AlreadyExists
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(12/12/2012) [-]
Regardless of my importance to US governors, the idea of separation of church and state is among the most fundamental principles of the US. Not including religious celebration in public institutions in no way impedes on people's rights to celebrate them independently. I'm not against letting people celebrate Christmas, in fact I'd oppose any oppression of people's freedom of religion. Without a problem I annually celebrate Christmas with my relatives, but when it comes to public schools and the like, there's no reason for it to be present- it's not a christian institution.

Also merry Christmas to you too ho ho ho!
User avatar #295 to #59 - finni
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Christmas is a part of Western culture and society. If you don't believe in God, that doesn't mean you can't celebrate a thousand year Western tradition. I don't believe in the Easter Bunny, the Old Norse Gods, but I still celebrate Easter and Yule Goat/Julebukk. It's a part of the culture of my society and just because the tradition with roots from a Religion doesn't mean celebrating that tradition make you a member of it.

It's not like me wishing somebody a happy Christmas is going to kill them, force convert them or anything like that.
#65 to #59 - anon id: b8f2f725
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Huh I didn't even know atheists had a problem with that. I'm an atheist and I love Christmas it's such a fun holiday even if you don't celebrate the religion part. It's like cozy and green and red and there's presents and stuff. I have a tree and everything. Holidays are really about what you make them.
User avatar #73 to #65 - AlreadyExists
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yeah since atheism is just not belonging to a religion (or lacking belief in all religions- something like that), atheism isn't really a group per se, it's just the collective sum of all people not belonging to any religious group. so I guess what I'm saying here is that it's hard to make generalizations about people which aren't in a religion because that doesn't really describe the people, that just eliminates things that could describe them. There isn't really so much a thing as an 'atheist agenda', atheism isn't a group- everyone's atheist by default starting from birth. so I don't even know if all atheists have a problem with it, that's just my two cents
#256 to #73 - kdeastab
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Just a quick fix. Atheism is not just not belonging to a religion. There are atheist sects of Buddhism. Atheism is the lack of a belief of a god.
User avatar #363 to #256 - AlreadyExists
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Ah- thank you for the correction.
#98 to #73 - salmonofdoubt
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An argument on FJ where both sides are being logical and both sides are being thumbed up? I don't know what my emotions are doing right now!!
An argument on FJ where both sides are being logical and both sides are being thumbed up? I don't know what my emotions are doing right now!!
User avatar #138 to #25 - rainbowrush
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A lot of Christians get buttmad when non Christians say merry Christmas. How people even believe that this holiday was ever about Chris is beyond me, tho.
User avatar #149 to #138 - rainbowrush
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(12/10/2012) [-]
t
User avatar #205 to #25 - WATCHAGUNADOBOUTIT
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people don't like being happy i guess
User avatar #214 to #25 - mrthezho
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I've actually never ever heard about this from anywhere else than on the internet. It could be because I live in Sweden though, and we're not really that religious...
User avatar #122 to #25 - rennat
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Christmas long ago stopped being about Christ. I'm atheist and I celebrate it. It's such a cultural holiday nowadays that even some jewish people celebrate it.
#67 - mostlyjunk
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(12/10/2012) [-]
Wait... what? This is actually an issue in some countries?
Wait... what? This is actually an issue in some countries?
User avatar #216 to #67 - flutterdoc
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we don't have Christmas trees in the Washington state capitol building any more, it is a "holiday tree"
User avatar #281 to #216 - TwistedBamboozler
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I'll call my property whatever the **** I want it
User avatar #166 to #67 - thestrangestboner
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In America anything you do is offensive. You can be forced to take down a nativity scene on YOUR property if it offends someone and they complain enough. Even if it's at a church. If you work at Wal-Mart or something similar, you say "happy holidays"; It's offensive to some to say Merry Christmas. Oh, and Christmas Trees? Yeah, we had those renamed to "Holiday Trees".

I don't like my country sometimes.
#108 to #67 - tjkskateboarder
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It gives me massive butt hurt. I talk to people of all other religions in my school, Jews and Muslims mostly, and whenever I say 'Merry Christmas' they don't threaten to bomb a god damn church. When I call it a Christmas tree nobody smacks me a cross the face. Changing Christmas tree to HOLIDAY tree is like changing Menorah to Holiday Candles. No other religions have a problem with Christianity, even if it is mentioned a bit more in the US or favored if you think. It's a bunch of dick heads fighting a battle no one wants to fight except them.
User avatar #75 to #67 - lilnuggetbob
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Here in America some people want to make it illegal to say Christmas on tv
#277 to #75 - anon id: 1d3d65fc
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******* ************ republicans
#316 to #277 - vangoz
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What makes you think it's the christian right ******** anon?
What makes you think it's the christian right ******** anon?
#86 to #67 - whalewhalewhale **User deleted account**
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User avatar #92 to #86 - ZenMacros
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In high school, I knew a kid that got in trouble for saying Christmas tree. The principal told him to say "holiday tree" because saying Christmas would offend people who don't celebrate it.

The kid is Muslim.
#96 to #92 - whalewhalewhale **User deleted account**
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#99 to #92 - salmonofdoubt
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I really want to know what the kid's reaction to that was.
I really want to know what the kid's reaction to that was.
#283 to #92 - greenthegunstar
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HAHAHAHAH...ohh, I hate this country sometimes.
#200 to #92 - sacredmagic
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I'm sorry the kid got in trouble but that is absolutely hilarious.
I'm sorry the kid got in trouble but that is absolutely hilarious.
#282 to #92 - greenthegunstar
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#236 to #92 - harryscene
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Comment Picture
#356 to #86 - mostlyjunk
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Wow, I'm sorry? Knowing that makes me kind of sad, I feel for you man, give me a hug.
#357 to #356 - whalewhalewhale **User deleted account**
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#173 - doctorpibber
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(12/10/2012) [-]
I'm an Atheist in the UK and I'll say merry Christmas to anyone. People who push political correctness annoy me just as much as hardline religious nuts because both end up being believers in a system of elitism, where they look down on people who don't follow their example.
User avatar #1 - vinzogonzo
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truth.
#2 to #1 - anon id: fc56679e
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^thats also the truth.
#3 to #2 - lolabunny
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^That one's more questionable.
User avatar #8 to #3 - thecratcher
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^That's a lie!
User avatar #12 to #8 - roflstorm
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^ that, we may never know if its a lie or the truth
#291 to #12 - greenthegunstar
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So who's lying, and who's telling the truth?
User avatar #354 to #291 - roflstorm
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He is.
#229 - TheBigGummyBear
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I say "Merry Christmas" and not once think about Christianity because I'm just being a nice person and it is ******* Christmas. People who get offended by someone wishing them a nice holiday no matter how they phrase it should **** off, honestly.
#26 - anon id: 7bcc30c4
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(12/09/2012) [-]
I say Happy Mythmas
User avatar #41 to #26 - hydraetis
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There's not believing in a religion, and then there's just being ******* stupid.
#36 to #26 - hpnerd
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You are such a fag
You are such a fag
User avatar #110 - cancerousiguana
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Atheists here say it too. There's a very small group of people who are trying to be politically correct about it, but for the most part, the whole "issue" is just because the media gets more viewers if they make it seem like a big deal, so they call it a "war on christmas" and talk about how everybody is talking about it, then everybody actually starts talking about it.
#111 to #110 - thebilliam
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#62 - Visual
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The whole **** storm about the nativity scene in public kind of annoys me.

I'm Atheist and I'm not really sure why Atheist groups make it a big ******* deal. They know God and religion is a bunch of ******** already so why the **** is a nativity scene so disgusting? It's not saying "HEY ATHEIST FAGGOTS, CONVERT", it's rather like nerds putting up a life-sized Darth Vader statue and trying to fondle it. It's weird but it's not hurting anyone.

And okay, maybe they are a violation of church and state, so for Christians not to take that call-out with dignity annoys me also.

Goddamnit why can't ******* Americans get along.
User avatar #66 to #62 - dafunkad
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can you please explain what happened ?

what ********** ?
User avatar #68 to #66 - Visual
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Some towns have assholes Atheist groups that are trying to take down Nativity scenes from public areas, and Christians are being butthurt faggots that don't know how to ******* take call-outs like civilized adults.

It is a violation of the constitution, I don't know why Atheist groups get so butthurt over it and why Christians don't know how to admit they're wrong.
User avatar #80 to #68 - Ruspanic
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Butthurt Atheists and Christians aside, why is it a violation of the Constitution?
User avatar #70 to #68 - dafunkad
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"It is a violation of the constitution," what is ?
User avatar #82 to #70 - Visual
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Having religious symbols on display on public, government-owned property.

It's a violation of "separation of church and state" meaning the government cannot endorse any religion
User avatar #89 to #82 - Ruspanic
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"Separation of church and state" is not written into the Constitution or any American law. It comes from one of Thomas Jefferson's letters.
#106 to #89 - mitchimusk
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And I believe in the letter he was very vague about it, which is why there is so much argument over it. Because it's not a law
User avatar #265 to #89 - thessalonaki
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The constitution says that the US government may not favor or disfavor any religious institution or church. By funding a nativity scene with taxpayer money, they are favoring a specific religion, Christianity.
User avatar #288 to #265 - Ruspanic
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Nativity scenes on public property are not taxpayer-funded. The property itself is taxpayer-funded, but the scenes are put on display by private groups or individuals with permission from the local government. As long as the government does not show explicit favoritism to any religion when granting permission, these displays are Constitutional.

This doesn't mean there have to be displays from other religions alongside the Nativity scenes, only that such displays must be equally allowed should anyone want to put them up.
User avatar #355 to #288 - thessalonaki
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Ah. I was misinformed then. As long as the nativity scenes aren't funded by taxpayer money, I'm OK with it.
#115 to #82 - anon id: d693bdda
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Not to be "that guy", but I'm pretty sure that only counts to making laws and court decisions and not what kind of decorations we put on display. "In God We Trust" is on our money, dude. I think you're misinterpreting the concept.
User avatar #116 to #115 - Visual
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There have been a few times where religious displays have been put up in public schools so they had to take them down because of separation of church and state.

Public displays are the same thing.
User avatar #114 to #62 - rmoran
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It was done because the display is funded by tax payers and shows a clear religious bias from the government. Truthfully, I don't see much of an issue, but if someone doesn't complain, it could literally be kept up in later years because people didn't complain in previous years. This happened with a 10 Commandments display in Texas.
Things like Christmas trees, Christmas lights, and Santa, on the other hand, are pretty damn secular. Put those up instead.
#249 - marinepenguin
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I'm not religious, and I have just decided not to give a **** what other people think about religion or a lack of it. I do my thing, you do yours. Simple and easy.
And people arguing over what to say to each other during Christmas ruins the Christmas spirit.
#303 to #249 - herbolifee
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Why are there not more people out there like you and me?
#24 - whyisthissohard **User deleted account**
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User avatar #28 to #24 - odonnell
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Christmas (Old English: Crīstesmæsse, meaning "Christ's Mass") is an annual commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ - Wikipedia

Atheists don't believe in God or Jesus. So why would they want to celebrate the birth of someone that doesn't exist in their opinions.

But its a cultural thing. Many Non-Christians still celebrate Christmas. This is probably to do with Santa replacing the Three Kings, and Santas Magic being more family friendly (For children etc)
#31 to #28 - whyisthissohard **User deleted account**
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User avatar #39 to #31 - odonnell
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I wasn't against Athiests doing Christmas.
I was just pointing out that Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Jesus, the giving of gifts derived from the Three Kings. ( For galkawhm :Even though theres been arguments about Jesus being born in April, I don't know whats happened there. As for the decorating of trees, things have moved on: Christianity also forbids the cutting of hair and the decorating of the body (Piercings and tattoos etc) but people do that anyway.)

I agree with the love and friendship, thats what I was trying to explain though Santa replacing the three kings etc. (I did have something wrote down about the idea of giving gifts to commemorate friends and family but I was having problems wording it and deleted it)
User avatar #35 to #28 - galkawhm
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(12/09/2012) [-]
Except Jesus was born sometime around April.

Also, Jeremiah 10:2-4 forbids decorating trees.
User avatar #43 to #24 - manofbeardliness
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Yes they are. What I think this joke is referencing is, everywhere in the states liberals are trying to make everyone more politically correct (which is horse ****) and banning everything that relates christianity to christmas (seriously). So now people are no longer allowed to say anything that might offend someone, like Merry Christmas or God Bless You. It's actually hilariously sad.
#38 to #24 - lowlifescarecrow
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(12/09/2012) [-]
We can eat turkey and get presents for doing nothing.