Early Atheism. sounds legit to me. ls God willing to present evil. but not able? Then he is not , Is he able. but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both Religion atheist christian catholic
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Early Atheism

Early Atheism. sounds legit to me. ls God willing to present evil. but not able? Then he is not , Is he able. but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both

sounds legit to me

ls God willing to present evil. but not able?
Then he is not ,
Is he able. but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence a: emkth evil‘?
Is he neither able gerbilling?
Then why call him God?
Epicurus
ATHEISTS
Winning since 33 A. D.
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Submitted: 11/20/2012
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Comments(619):

[ 619 comments ]
What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#33 - sidathon (11/20/2012) [-]
If chibi no wanga Solo then why does son chon Wookie?

Atheists: 0
Christians: 0
Han Solo: 0
Chewbacca: 0
Jabba: 1
#466 - darthblam (11/21/2012) [-]
Even if I agree with the content, I very seriously hate it when people post content with some sort of religious statement... we really do not need this **** here...
#582 to #466 - munchito (11/22/2012) [-]
I just like watching the arguments break out over them, ****** hilarious
#86 - yeahguy (11/21/2012) [-]
MFW all the comment arguments.
MFW all the comment arguments.
User avatar #127 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Able: Check
Willing: Check
Whence cometh evil: Evil cometh from man, not God.

Your move, atheists.
User avatar #343 to #127 - BroadSword (11/21/2012) [-]
Man came from God, evil came from God...
User avatar #353 to #343 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
As I said in response to the commenter before you, please read the discussions below. I'm tired of explaining it.
User avatar #354 to #353 - BroadSword (11/21/2012) [-]
Yea sorry, I did read it and you lead yourself back in favour to my argument. 'God knew evil would occur but he allowed it to happen,' -jokeface
User avatar #370 to #354 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Okay, fair enough. But then it all comes down to a simple matter of verbiage. Let's bring it back to the beginning of the discussion.

If I change my original statement to say that God is able, but not willing, then that doesn't defy anything in the Bible. All it means is that atheists perceive God to be, as Epicurus states, "malevolent". But Christians - even those who believe He is able but not willing - still consider Him benevolent. And as long as we believe that (hell, as long as we believe in God period), then the atheists are not winning.
User avatar #408 to #370 - BroadSword (11/21/2012) [-]
Its not a matter of winning... what religious path you decide to take with your life isnt some form competition when it comes to death and beyond...
User avatar #413 to #408 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
I know, that's my point. I'm not saying the religious people are winning, I'm saying no one is winning.
0
#644 to #127 - russianbro has deleted their comment [-]
#131 to #127 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
Evil came from man, yes, but man came from God. That's like saying I get my ketchup from a bottle and the ketchup factory and the tomatoes that are grown and harvested have nothing to do with it.

The ketchup doesn't just magically appear in the bottle.
User avatar #135 to #131 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
God gave man free will. Man chose to become evil. That's like if my dad gave me the keys to his car and I drove it into a tree. Keep in mind, I've been driving for years, I'm decent at it, and I can usually be trusted behind the wheel. That accident is my fault, not my dad's.
#251 to #135 - ventriloquist (11/21/2012) [-]
If god gave man free will then how can he be all knowing? If your dad KNEW you were going to crash his car then it is his fault for giving you the keys, but your dad didn't so that's why it isn't his fault.
User avatar #265 to #251 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
God knew evil would occur but He allowed it to happen anyway because He knew evil was necessary.
#274 to #265 - ventriloquist (11/21/2012) [-]
Oh ok, that makes sense then. But doesn't that still mean that god is somewhat responsible for the evil in the world?
User avatar #285 to #274 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
I guess, from a certain standpoint, you could say that. But man is the one who chooses whether or not to unleash the evil. In fact, what I should have said was that God knows that the allowance of evil is necessary, not the evil itself. Man has to be free to choose whether or not to be evil.
#291 to #285 - ventriloquist (11/21/2012) [-]
Well the evil part makes sense now. But if god is all knowing then he must know who will choose to be evil in the future. But if that's the case did they really have a choice at all?
User avatar #307 to #291 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
That's one of the biggest controversies in our faith. It's really impossible to understand, even from a hardcore Christian's perspective. The best I can tell you (and what I told someone else in another thread) is that God operates outside the parameters of human logic. We can't conceive of free will and God's omniscience coexisting, but somehow they do, in a divine way that we'll never comprehend. I know that doesn't answer your question at all, but it's all I have. Sorry.
#531 to #307 - ventriloquist (11/21/2012) [-]
Thank you so much for explaining that. Usually people have a hard time understanding what I ask but you know so much. You have literally put to rest my concerns with the logic of religion, thank you
User avatar #562 to #531 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
I'm glad I could be of assistance.
User avatar #363 to #307 - thepyras (11/21/2012) [-]
If God decided not to allow bad people to live, the good in good people would be meaningless. It all goes along the lines of free will. If humans had no choice but to love God then that love would be a meaningless, fruitless creation.
User avatar #563 to #363 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Good answer.
#140 to #135 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
That doesn't negate the fact that God still does nothing to quell the evil in this world.

See if your dad were omniscient as God is, he would have seen the accident and, for your own good, never would have given you the keys in the first place.

It's like if you knew for 100% sure that a man were coming to your house to burglarize it, you wouldn't sit and wait for it to happen before you reacted. Instead, you'd probably try to implement preventative measures.

So why doesn't God do anything? Isn't he omnipotent?
User avatar #151 to #140 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Let's go back to the very beginning of Genesis.

The Garden of Eden was perfect. Utopia, in fact. The world as it was then was equal to heaven. Man could do no wrong because there was no wrong. Then when Adam and eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, their eyes were opened to good and evil, and suddenly lines were drawn separating the two. The world became a place of conflict, hardship, and all around imperfection. Earth could ever be utopia again.

Fast-forward a few thousand years. Enter Jesus Christ. Jesus dies for man's sins and opens a gateway to heaven. Now man can enter heaven after leaving this planet. Heaven is utopia. No tears, no sorrow, no pain. The perfect world. Heaven is not Earth. That's what you need to take away from this. God allows evil to exist on earth because He deems evil necessary to separate it from heaven. But He does not create evil. He simply allows man to ruin the gift He gave us. Or, alternatively, man can rejoice in the gift and thank God for the promise of life in heaven.

Earth sucks because we're paying our admission into heaven.
#169 to #151 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
I see your reasoning, but this still begs the question I had before. God knew what Adam and Eve were going to do so why was such a tree even placed there?

It's like if you were tell your child, "Here are some cookies to look at, but you may not eat them," and then immediately turn your back. It would be foolish for any parent to expect their child to obey. So instead, any sensible parent would place the cookies out of reach of the child who doesn't know any better.

And your last quote there, "Earth sucks because we're paying our admission into heaven." I have a problem with. The bible states quite clearly that Heaven is too great a reward for any man to earn which is why blood sacrifice was necessary for admission. So to say we are "paying our admission" would be wrong by the bible. Not to mention the fact that the bible also states that "We have been bought and paid for by the blood of Jesus," meaning there is no longer any need to "earn" our way into heaven because Jesus already took care of it.

With that said I ask again, why is there evil? If every good and perfect gift comes from above, why is Earth such a ****** place?
User avatar #315 to #169 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
You're right about that paying admission part. In my head I had a more complicated explanation, since I know very well that Jesus paid our admission already. But clearly it didn't translate to words very well. I'm not sure why I phrased it that way. But I stand by that part about evil being necessary to separate heaven from earth. Only those who accept Jesus as their God can go to heaven, according to the Bible. If God made earth like heaven, then there would be no need for humans to go to heaven because they're already they're, basically. And since God doesn't want the nonbelievers in heaven, he had to make earth worse than heaven. But for reasons I can't ascertain, He gave man the ability to make earth only as bad as we wanted it to be. And just as we can make the earth ****** , we can also make it good. That's the beauty of free will. We have the power to control this planet. But some people are really ****** . And that's why there is evil.
#346 to #315 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
I suppose that makes sense, but do you have a scriptural reference? I don't remember seeing anywhere in the bible the statement, "Earth sucks because if it didn't then heaven wouldn't be all that great," obviously not in so many words but you get the idea. And your point also begs the question as to why, knowing full well what Adam and Eve were going to do, God even bothered putting the tree there in the first place. Why didn't he just cut out the middleman and just make man sinful to begin with yet still giving us the choice? It seems like he did it that way so that we couldn't directly blame him for evil.
User avatar #359 to #346 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
I don't have a reference, as it is simply my interpretation. However, it being a mere interpretation doesn't take away from my conviction in believing in it. That being said, I can't tell you why He put the Tree there, as I have not yet developed an interpretation of that.
#379 to #359 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
Then how am I to trust your opinion? How can you expect your interpretation of the bible, which may very well be wrong, to be reliable in any way?
User avatar #385 to #379 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Until someone offers me a more reliable answer, it's the best I have. But so far no one has said anything about why, so I have nothing else to go off of.
#389 to #385 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
So then is that to say that your beliefs are based on nothing? That you have no foundation for them and you only believe these things simply because this is the only thing you have been told all your life?
User avatar #395 to #389 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Are you talking specifically about the Tree interpretation, or my entire system of faith? I assume you mean my faith. And I believe in it because I can sense it. I'd go into detail but it would sound very cliche and cheesy.
#436 to #395 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
I was raised christian so I'm sure I've heard it a million times already. But I disagree. I do not believe that God allows evil just so Heaven can be better by comparison. Indeed, Heaven would be better regardless of how good life on Earth might be.
User avatar #448 to #436 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Well something I remember learning as a child was that before they ate from the Tree, man was supposed to live eternally on earth, and earth was supposed to be paradise.
#495 to #448 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
But God knew better... so what is the reasoning behind all of it?
User avatar #565 to #495 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Okay right now it's the next morning for me (actually afternoon, but I sleep very late) so I forget who said what last night. But someone pointed out that God wants us to love Him by our own choice, not because we have no other option. So He allowed conflict into the world so that we could decide whether to go with Him or go elsewhere, because choosing to love Him that way would make our devotion to Him meaningful and not empty or forced.
User avatar #174 to #135 - AlfredNeuman (11/21/2012) [-]
not trying to bash but i thought that the free will thing came from eve eating the apple
#198 to #174 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
According to what I've been taught, man always had free will just never knew anything different than good so Adam and Eve always did good until Eve disobeyed. As for why God gave us free will was explained as he wants us to freely love him as he freely loves us.

It's like if you had the power to force the love of your life to love you back, it wouldn't be true love because he/she isn't doing it out of his/her own free will. But if he/she loved you freely without being forced, then it makes the love he/she feels for you that much more real and meaningful.
User avatar #564 to #198 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
Had to come back down here because the comment max was reached, like i said yesterday religion is nothing like it used to be, its become a tame version of what it once was but still even today there is so much corruption in religions like the extremist Muslims, like the pedophile priests and even like the pastors who will take money from their church group to buy personal items and not put all of the money back into the church, if the world was all held under 1 belief obviously it would run smoother but that would never happen with any 1 religion because there are too many fanatics. If the whole world was atheist then yes there would still be crime and evil but there would be a lot less wars, all the wars in the middle easy focus on religion, a lot of the "wars" in Africa also focus on religion. Atheism isn't LETS DENOUNCE EVERYTHING RELIGION SAYS IS GOOD we look at all sides of religion which would benefit us and use that. There has been cases of religious people when they have broke apart from religion or denounced it that they go on a crazy crime/killing spree because they were only doing good because they were scared of Gods wrath, yet a lot of Atheists (i know a lot of religious people do this also) who aren't scared of any sort of wrath to them will go and help from the goodness of their heart and not commit crimes because they care more about their fellow man than the do a deity in the sky.
#569 to #564 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
Well, in an effort to conclude this, I'll say both sides yield good and bad. I choose to believe there is a God for reasons I've already explained. It has been a pleasure discussing religion with you without using the words "faggot" or "retard" which is a sadly rare occurrence.

I wish you success and prosperity on your future endeavors.
User avatar #223 to #198 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
Na its more like you have the power to make the love of your life love you back so you don't use your power.....but if she doesn't on her own love you back you punish her by burning her alive for all of eternity. Don't get all annoyed and upset at my comment because im not making it to get anyone angry, its just you put only the nice side of things which happen, i needed to put the not so nice things which happen.
User avatar #232 to #223 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Sounds like a pretty easy decision to me.
User avatar #234 to #232 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
You shouldn't believe in something purely because you fear the consequences of not believing in it. That right there is the definition of a sheep, if you believe in something because you truly believe in something then thats fine but really, if a being has the ability to create the universe and intelligent life, im pretty sure it will know you only followed its religion because you were scared and not a true believer.
#339 to #234 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
Although I get your point, I have heard this before and I think the reasoning a bit skewed. Basically, how I interpret that point is if I were to hold a gun to your face and say that if you don't give me all your money then I will kill you. If your response is, "I refuse because that is a decision based on fear and I don't believe in letting fear dictate my actions," it can be widely accepted as a foolish response. So to say, "I won't let the fear of eternal hellfire and torment dictate my actions in this life," is, to me, just as foolish.

inb4 but guns exist hell doesnt etc etc
User avatar #352 to #339 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
I see where you are coming from with the comparison but its nothing like that, it would be more like a guy running up to you with his hand in his jacket pocket with no gun visible and telling you to give him all your money, there is no evidence there to show he has got a gun and no reason for him to not show you the gun (if he had one) also religion was nothing like it is now 2000 years ago, with religion came masses of power, so its like the guy with his hand in his pocket is not only asking for your money but asking for you to follow his every command till death.
#372 to #352 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
I see. That actually makes perfect sense. I guess, then, it is to you whether or not you want to risk it. But I wouldn't say that most religious "leaders" (a term used loosely here because some actually do not consider themselves in control of those they "lead") are in it purely for the sake of telling people what to do and enslaving them in a sense. I, personally, have seen many people who preach and spread the word of God out of legitimate belief and concern. I also know through personal experience that this fear isn't the only incentive offered when one is being preached to. Often I will see people say things like, "God can give you joy and peace of mind and can help out of every problem and trouble you've ever had in life." To me such things are not said to scare one into conversion. I think there are actually some good religious people out that do focus on the good that can come of it and most of them aren't demanding complete control over your life either. As tired as this phrase may be I think it serves to embolden my point: "My church has fed the hungry and sheltered the homeless, what has your church done?"
User avatar #394 to #372 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
Like i said, religion has changed ever so much from 2000 years ago till now, if it hadn't changed any then it would either A. No longer exist or B. Be the ruling force in the world. The old ways of religion were power, whether it be for the individual or for the religion as a whole. Don't get me wrong though, i don't look at religion as this huge evil thing (not current religion that is) i look it as something which makes people happy, i too would like to be a part of something like that but i am unable to have belief, i am unable to overlook past discrepancies. Due to religious fear of science we are around 1000 years behind in scientific advances. For all the good religion does there are like 10 dark things hiding in the corner which are evil. Not to mention the magnitude of different religions out there all claiming to be the one true religion. They all can't be right but the only reason you think yours is the correct one is because of your surroundings (religious parents/religious country)
#445 to #394 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
I guess the main point I'm trying to make here is too many atheists generalize based on a few actions or even actions that thousands of years old at this point (and that really doesn't seem fair) and their line of thinking is far too narrow-minded for me to consider their argument valid.
User avatar #456 to #445 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
Anyway im off to sleep now (its almost 7am) reply to me and i will be sure to reply back when i wake sometime in the afternoon, its been nice discussing with you. Good night.
User avatar #452 to #445 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
thousands of years ago is not long at all, it is but a blink of an eye on the grand scale of things.
#432 to #394 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
Also, sorry for the TL;DR.
#430 to #394 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
I see your reasoning. But to me, what I believe goes beyond physical and scientific evidence or the actions of those who to believe what I believe, which is why I never bother to look into any of it for either side (and supposedly there is evidence to suggest creation). I think the biggest problem is atheists demand evidence and proof and scream " ******** " when no one has anything to give. Now I can't blame them for one second because it makes perfect sense to think that way but I think it does more to hinder spiritual health and growth. We think too much and feel too little (I know I stole that quote). But anyway, I choose to believe what I believe because I think it's spiritually healthy and it brings me comfort and joy in a world that is ****** any way you slice it. And I personally choose to approach any religious discussion philosophically because at that point it's not a matter of whoever happens to have more evidence on hand can claim victory but rather it becomes more of a thinking game. The reason why I believe there must be a God is because no atheist can explain in any terms how matter came to be prior to the big bang. Also, I choose believe that the human consciousness is far to complex to have evolved from a single cell purely by accident regardless of many millions of year you throw into the mix.
User avatar #449 to #430 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
"Purely by accident" is a term thrown around by people who do not support evolution, no scientist says purely by accident, also there is no evidence to support creationism, there is one so called scientist claiming evidence but all his stuff is actually made up. There is literally no evidence to support creationism. Also we cannot say how matter came to be (yet) but saying God did it is no better than us saying we don't know. I will always be scientifically minded, give me proof and i will believe, believing without proof is one of the reasons we as a species are getting less intelligent.
#487 to #449 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
And if evolution wasn't a happenstance then are you suggesting that it was controlled or planned? I see no other alternative.
#482 to #449 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
If not "purely by accident" (which is exactly the case) then how would you define it? Just because no scientist ever says it true doesn't make it false which what you're implying which, to me, sounds ignorant and makes you no better than any religious fanatic you've condemned. And if all you ever believe is based on what a man in a white coat has to say, then how does that make you any better than me who will believe a man holding a bible? Neither of us have ever stumbled upon evidence ourselves so everything we've ever heard is pure hearsay. Though I will say it makes more sense to believe a scientist more than a pastor, but do not for one second assume that you are a greater being for believing the scientist because there could be something to this whole religion thing that you simply don't see or understand because perhaps you're too close minded to grasp. I'm not saying that's the case, but you cannot, with any certainty, say otherwise. Nor can I.

As for your other point, how can you say that the evidence supporting evolution isn't fabricated? How can you say that the evidence supporting creation was? It sounds to me like that particular argument can summed up as, "Well that proves me wrong so it's obviously fake!" Which is no different than an immature flame war on the internet. One of the reasons why I choose to disregard physical evidence because I can never really be sure. Neither can you. To say otherwise would arrogant and ignorant.
User avatar #553 to #482 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
I can easily say that the proof for evolution is not fabricated because its there, there IS proof, the "proof" for creationism is purely fabricated because there was literally no proof.....thats how science works. Science shows proof (easily accessible proof) which is then tested by a lot of other people to show that it is proof. And evolution is not purely by accident because nothing happens by accident, its called adaptation. There was one thing which was more beneficial.....so our ancestors jumped on it. What those uneducated see is "by accident" but no man who knows the facts of evolution will say its by accident. Also i had a discussion with a creationist a couple of weeks ago, he was so uneducated on the subject that he said "I believe in adaptation...but not evolution" he would not accept that they were the same thing because in his church the pastors had bashed evolution so much and told him lies about it that he thought as evolution as this hugely wrong thing while adaptation (because a bad word wasn't said about that) was plausible.
#554 to #553 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
I would have to agree with him. Adaptation is necessary for evolution, but the two are not synonymous. Evolution is the complete changing of one species through many adaptations to the environment which are be necessary for survival. However, just because one adapts to one's environment doesn't mean one has evolved completely nor does it mean one even will in the future. When I say "by accident," I mean that for one to survive in an environment for which they are not genetically fit, a genetic mutation must occur for that one to continue to survive. This is where "survival of fittest" comes from. That mutation is a complete random outcome. The species that survived didn't suddenly decide to sprout fins and gills so it could swim in the water to survive. It was the species that was born "deformed" with fins and gills that survived where all the others died off and so this genetic deformity was multiplied and voila, you have a completely new species fit for the environment and the original species never once made a conscious decision for any of it. Now obviously the more recent homo sapiens possessed a degree of intelligence where genetic mutations need not facilitate survival. But for the bulk of millions of years Earth has been around, intelligent homo sapiens have not. So somewhere along the line, humans were once unintelligent beasts with nothing more than survival instinct (which is eat, drink, and sleep etc) and any adaptations to the environment were never a conscious, intelligent decision. That is what I mean when I say "by accident."

As for your first point, you implement only the logical fallacy of circular reasoning. What I'm interpreting here is you saying, "Proof for evolution is not fabricated because it's there and it's there because it's not fabricated. Proof for creation is not there because it's all fabricated and it's all fabricated because it's not there." Which is a deeply flawed argument and brings me to my original point, How can you be sure?
User avatar #555 to #554 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
I can be sure because i have seen fossils, i have seen proof of evolution with my one two eyes, evolution is widely accepted because the proof of it is overwhelming, anyone to say "well its all fabricated" is a drag on the human intellect because they cant accept fact. Creationism is something specific to religions, something which is known to have more holes than Swiss cheese, no non religious person believes in creationism but a lot of religious people believe in evolution. Also evolution and adaptation are the same thing, different words for the same thing. People think of evolution as this huge change but its not. Evolution is a simple as a fish being born with bigger teeth than the rest. Evolution is not the jump from ape to man but everything in between.
#556 to #555 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
a·dapt/əˈdapt/
Verb:
Make (something) suitable for a new use or purpose; modify.
e·volve/iˈvälv/
Verb:
Develop gradually, esp. from a simple to a more complex form.

While I was wrong previously when I defined evolution the fact, nonetheless, remains that the two are not synonymous. And going off of your point, you have seen fossils as have I. Fossils alone do not, cannot, prove evolution. And I know for a fact that you have not seen proof for evolution simply because there is nothing infallible that makes it fact outright. Which is why it is still a theory and not a scientific law. I will say that a lot of evidence could suggest it, but nothing proves it. Same goes for creation as well.

At any rate I'm getting away from my original point. I do not look at physical evidence because neither side can claim infallibility. Simply approaching the topics with my own logical reasoning and viewing both sides carefully, I can say that I have come to the conclusion that creationism offers more answers that evolution doesn't just yet. On top of all that, it just makes me a happier and more comfortable person. Do as you will but if you wish to compel anyone with your argument, try being less self-righteous and admit that maybe you could be wrong. Because you simply don't know for certain. Neither do I.
User avatar #557 to #556 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
Suitable for a new purpose/develop gradually....they mean the same. Also yes creationism gives answers, but not answers that can be supported in anyway, like if i was asked whats 13x632 and i said the answer was 7896, it seems about right...it looks like it fits but its wrong, its a number i purely plucked out of my head to fit the answer. People will come by and disprove my answer but that will not stop it being an answer nonetheless.
#559 to #557 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
And I think the internet can serve to embolden my point considering anger, hate, and cynicism are rampant and yet most that frequent the internet are non-religious or outright atheistic.
#558 to #557 - palindromia (11/21/2012) [-]
This explanation makes sense, but I would have to say that the example given doesn't suit the complexity of the topic at hand. The origin of the human race cannot be summed as "what is 2+2; science says it's 4 and religion says it's 5 so obviously religion is ******** ." See if no one knew how math functioned and the problem of 2+2 were presented, both sides could give an answer yet neither side would know if it were the right answer until one side were to fully understand basic addition. Seeing as how no one can fully understand where from humans came, neither side can be certain in their answer.

But all this aside, it's an irrelevant question to begin with, in my opinion. The origin of human beings doesn't necessarily apply to the advancement of society at large. If evolution were to be proven as fact... ok... great... now what? If you ask me I think religion has more good to offer than bad unless you define good in terms of proving evolution which, to me, is a skewed view. Now obviously you have all these religious wars in the past and even the current terrorist threat posed by radical Islam. But there are several hundred wars fought where religion had nothing to do with either side's motive. In my opinion, wars would wage and men would die senselessly with or without religion. Now I do think that religion does have some good to offer the world. There are some biblical principles that if they were integrated with human society, would make the world a much place. Same goes for some Buddhist, Judaic, and Islamic principles.

Bottom line: If you prove evolution to be infallible fact and rid the world of religion, not much in society would change. People would still be greedy, corrupt, angry and hateful. But if people were to practice some religious principles, I honestly think we would see some improvement as a human race.
Then again this is all just my opinion.
User avatar #244 to #234 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Funny your choice of comparison was a sheep, because that's exactly what God calls us. We are sheep and Jesus is the shepherd, leading us home to heaven. And I know, I agree with you, but I believe in it anyway.
User avatar #247 to #244 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
Aren't sheep refereed to as "Unclean animals" in the bible?...I don't know how i feel about this.
User avatar #254 to #247 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
So? Humans are unclean too. That's what set Jesus apart. He was the only "pure, spotless lamb".

That's right. Jesus was a lamb AND a shepherd. That's just how awesome he is.
User avatar #259 to #254 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
There are too many metaphors and parables in the bible for me to keep up with.
User avatar #275 to #259 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
That's okay. You're faults are forgiven. That's the important thing.
#279 to #275 - Faz (11/21/2012) [-]
Im flawless.
Im flawless.
User avatar #289 to #279 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Well okay if you say so. Lol.
User avatar #226 to #174 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
I don't think so, because if she didn't have free will before eating the apple, then she wouldn't have eaten the apple.
#402 to #226 - Rascal (11/21/2012) [-]
She was temped by Satan (in the image of a serpent) in the Garden of Eden to eat the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. God told both Adam and Eve not to eat the Fruit otherwise they would be cast out of the Garden. Eve knew the consequences of her actions, but she was deceived by Satan's lies to eat the Fruit anyway.
It shows they had free will, the same as we enjoy today. God has told us to do his will, love him and not sin against him lest we be cast from his side into hell.
User avatar #407 to #402 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Indeed.
User avatar #199 to #174 - arawan (11/21/2012) [-]
It depends on how you interpret the Bible. Literal interpretations would say yes but allegorical interpretations would say that it is a story representing man's choice to sin and how that separates us from a perfect relationship with God (meaning paradise).
#270 to #127 - miaandvinny (11/21/2012) [-]
God lets innocents suffer because one man abuses his free will, he lets kids in Africa starve even though they have no say in what goes on, that does not sound like a nice guy to me.


Sorry if i make no sense, it's late and I've been getting little sleep lately,
User avatar #294 to #270 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
God has given us the power to save those suffering from hunger and poverty. We have yet to use that power. There is plenty of food produced worldwide that excess of it can be sent to Africa. But it takes a global effort. And the world is at war with itself, which is holding us back from make the difference needed.

Judge not lest ye be judged.
#541 to #294 - miaandvinny (11/21/2012) [-]
9/11. Thousands of people died, no one besides the terroists knew it happening before it was to late. Moithers, fsthers, sons, daughters, siblings, friends, dead. How would I or anyone else I know be able to stop that from happening? To put it simply, when some men abuse their free will, no matter what I or almost anyone else does, they will hurt someone, same with murders and rapes.


Again, it's early in the morning. I'm really having a hard time getting my thoughts down in words
User avatar #560 to #541 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
I said it takes a global effort. That means everyone in the world has to be on the same page. The terrorists had the power to decide not to do the attacks, but they carried them out anyway. That's their fault, not God's.
#566 to #560 - miaandvinny (11/21/2012) [-]
Back to my original point. Humans will never be at peace like that, there will always be some that are rotten to the core, so innocents will always suffer in ways most cannot imagine, but why? Why doesn't God save those women who get raped, those children who get abused, and those families that died in 9/11? If I had that power, I would hope I would protect the innocent, even if I do let humans have their freewill to a certain extent.
User avatar #567 to #566 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Because God doesn't play favorites. The world is under our control. Even if you don't believe it will ever change, it's still under our control.

Trust me, I sympathize with you. I too know it's not gonna change. But God has decided that we have the power to change it, even if we refuse to do so.
#568 to #567 - miaandvinny (11/21/2012) [-]
God doesn't play favorites, besides for Christians. Anywho, I just think God should stop evil at a certain point
User avatar #570 to #568 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
The word "Christian" isn't a word God uses to designate people he intends to let into heaven. Christian is a label that humans created to designate the people that worship Jesus Christ, who said that only through Him could we enter the kingdom of heaven. He wasn't just talking to the Christians, he was talking to everyone in the world. God loves everyone equally, and wants all of us to join Him in heaven. It's our choice whether to accept the invitation.
#574 to #570 - miaandvinny (11/21/2012) [-]
Wait, God will accept me, an atheist, into heaven, right? Because I do not steal, murder, beat, and I try to be nice to everyone I can (I'm by no means perfect)
User avatar #587 to #574 - jokeface (11/22/2012) [-]
Again, Jesus said only through Him can we enter heaven. Your resume sounds superb, but you still need to accept Him as your savior in order to get in.
#639 to #587 - miaandvinny (11/29/2012) [-]
Ok, I spend my life as an Atheist, but let's say when I die, I see God. Of course, if he stares me in the face, I could not deny his existense, so would I then, after figuring out he's real, be allowed into heaveon?
User avatar #640 to #639 - jokeface (11/29/2012) [-]
Depends if you confess your sins and ask for forgiveness.
#641 to #640 - miaandvinny (12/01/2012) [-]
Fair enough, I just think God could do a little more to help the innocent.
#19 - roliga ONLINE (11/20/2012) [-]
if god isn't real than why are gloves shaped like hands?


Scooter - 69
Potato - Anal beads
User avatar #31 to #19 - upunkpunk ONLINE (11/20/2012) [-]
Which video is that from?
User avatar #34 to #31 - millenia (11/20/2012) [-]
It's from when Yahtzee announced that The Escapist would be picking him up

youtu.be/ZOBTN67K0Zw
User avatar #43 to #34 - upunkpunk ONLINE (11/20/2012) [-]
Thanks
#29 to #19 - millenia (11/20/2012) [-]
Potato anal beads, you say?
User avatar #50 to #19 - chayio (11/20/2012) [-]
Gloves have obviously evolved to fit our hands.
#412 - pawntrawn (11/21/2012) [-]
Oh god/no god, not this again...
Oh god/no god, not this again...
#443 to #412 - enorus (11/21/2012) [-]
Comment Picture
#411 - ibmonkeyboy (11/21/2012) [-]
Doesn't matter, we all die and 			*****		 going to happen (or not happen) regardless.
Doesn't matter, we all die and ***** going to happen (or not happen) regardless.
#99 - iamphoenix (11/21/2012) [-]
The only real evil is done by mankind. If we're allowed to do good we must as well be allowed to do evil.
User avatar #105 to #99 - kingchase (11/21/2012) [-]
Nice way of looking at it, it is very true.
User avatar #95 - widerbubbles (11/21/2012) [-]
I am an athiest, but I have something to say to both religious people, and athiests. I really don't give a flying **** whether or not you believe in God or whatever you believe in. I am completely fine with whatever someones beliefs are, as long as they don't try to ram it down my throat. Athiests, you don't like it when a Christian shoves God down your throat, so why do you shove your beliefs down theirs? Yes, I do sometimes bring up points like this, but it is not to mock them or whatever, it is to find out what they think of it. So both Athiests, and Christians, and whatever other religions, just stop ramming your beliefs down each others throats like they are your dicks.
#80 - bangami (11/21/2012) [-]
Oh look another bible fight.
+9
#204 - videogameboard **User deleted account** has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #210 to #204 - deaditink (11/21/2012) [-]
Well that escalated quickly
#329 - lucidria (11/21/2012) [-]
This image has expired
I actually agree with the post, I just wanted to use this as it was relevant enough.
User avatar #118 - xyxoz (11/21/2012) [-]
Think about how stupid humans are.
Think about how often you want to shoot someone in the face.
Think about 3/4 of the world's population begging you for **** / misquoting your best work.
Would you really give a **** about humans after a few thousand years?
User avatar #465 - Sethorein ONLINE (11/21/2012) [-]
Ummm.... Epicurus... kinda lived between 341 BCE – 270 BCE o_o
#479 to #465 - broorb (11/21/2012) [-]
yeah, I was gonna say.
User avatar #490 to #465 - malific (11/21/2012) [-]
Atheists :

Think religious people are stupid for believing something unprovable;

Can't even get provable facts right.
#420 - alexthecanadian (11/21/2012) [-]
God Bless us, Everyone.

"We must remember that all incapacity and distress is sent to us by God. Life and death, health and sickness, are all ordered by Him; and in whatever form they come, it is always to help us and for our good."
- St. Vincent de Paul, 1581-1660

Well, it was a good couple weeks without seeing religion on the frontpage. All good things must come to an end I guess...
User avatar #120 - JNS (11/21/2012) [-]
He is both able and willing.
Evil comes from the free will of man
User avatar #124 to #120 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
Thank you. I've been saying this for ages. Finally someone understands.
#136 to #124 - Rascal (11/21/2012) [-]
I've started thinking of God as neither good nor evil, but more neutral. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense for God to create both good and evil. After all, the universe works on a system of cause and effect. If there was absolutely nothing before God, then He would have had to at the very least indirectly create evil.
User avatar #139 to #136 - jokeface (11/21/2012) [-]
I sort of agree with you, yes. In the beginning, God was alone. There was no one and nothing else in existence, so anything God did was neither good nor evil, it just was, because as God, there was no one passing judgment on Him.
#115 - Rascal (11/21/2012) [-]
Yeah, Epicurus died in 270 BC...
#59 - sidathon (11/20/2012) [-]
I don't mind what everyone believes/disbelieves.
User avatar #386 - jdboi ONLINE (11/21/2012) [-]
I'm catholic, and I believe in God, but all I believe is that he just handed us everything we need, and he sits back and watches the **** storms we make.
User avatar #421 to #386 - Blitzken (11/21/2012) [-]
then you are not a christian you are a deist or someone who believes god created the world and left mankind to their own devices
User avatar #426 to #421 - jdboi ONLINE (11/21/2012) [-]
Well, whatevs dude. Just don't **** with others people's **** , and everything will be good.
User avatar #431 to #426 - Blitzken (11/21/2012) [-]
no i don't get involved in all this bible fight **** on the internet i was just letting you know that there is a name for what you believe
User avatar #438 to #431 - jdboi ONLINE (11/21/2012) [-]
I believe in stuff that's part of Catholicism and some in deism. idk percentage wise. But since i went to a Catholic school for a while, Id say I believe more in Catholicism
User avatar #447 to #438 - Blitzken (11/21/2012) [-]
that's its better to have a diverse range of beliefs i can't stand people who say that this and only this is what i believe in i don't care who you are no one believes in only one thing
User avatar #464 to #447 - jdboi ONLINE (11/21/2012) [-]
Agreed, gotta have that open mind
#429 to #386 - VileVagrant (11/21/2012) [-]
Generally, that's called Deism.
0
#497 to #386 - gritsreborn **User deleted account** has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #521 to #497 - jdboi ONLINE (11/21/2012) [-]
Technically I am a Catholic, I still have some Catholic beliefs, and some Deism, but I am in the Catholic Church. I am Confirmed and all that jazz
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