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What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
User avatar #321 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
love =/= sex
thumb down if you want but i will support anything you are but not everything you do
User avatar #616 to #321 - nichsell (05/01/2012) [-]
Ok, I've read all of your comments and must say love does not equal sex, but it does go together when in a serious relationship. It brings people closer together, and also serves several functions like getting rid of stress, and for guys lowering the chances of prostate cancer. Also just because you have sex with someone, it doesn't mean you're not still in love with someone it just brings them closer together. Also even if you are against sex before marriage, that doesn't mean it's wrong. People get married because they are usually in love, and will have sex regardless of marriage status. In our society today marriage doesn't have a thing to do with having kids, it's just about love(In most cases).

So I ask you, since you're against sex before marriage, if gay people get married are they still allowed to have sex, and still consider it love? Also you said marriage should only be fore love, and children. What about people that are sterile, but still in love, can they not get married ? Or what about people who do not want children can they get married? or is it still considered lust in your eyes? If anything marriage isn't a gateway to have sex whenever you want(since people are having sex whenever they want), but more of a statement that you love your partner will stay with your partner for the rest of your life gay or straight.
User avatar #638 to #616 - Vandeekree (05/02/2012) [-]
Well, the first thing i have to say to that is that when you say "in love" what do you mean? Because there is only a single kind of love that you can have for anyone. That is the love of wanting the best for them, caring about them, and worrying about them while expecting nothing back. You love them. But when you say "in love" it sounds like "want to have sex with." It should work that you love everyone and in some cases you see a person as a potential mate and want to have children. That is when you should marry them and use that bond to produce children. You already love them but also you are attracted to them. What causes that attraction? The fact that they would produce "good" offspring with you.
Those benefits are all good, but not the only place to get them and not a good reason to justify sex.
And sex should not bring you closer together, if you are going to get married you should already be as close as possible and sex is just something to enjoy.
And yes(doing my best not to throw the Bible at people who don't believe in it but) sex before marriage is wrong. I couldn't care less what society accepts because it changes nothing, there are things that will always be wrong and no amount of insisting from any number of people will change that.
And gay people cannot get married because marriage is for the purpose of having children with someone you love. And people who are sterile should abstain from sex and people who do not want children should do the same, but then also it should be noted that getting married to stave off that lust if you can't handle it is better than sitting there burning with lust. But obviously yes, lust is lust and is not caused by or causes love.
And lastly it is pointless to "make a statement" that you love someone, just love them. Marriage only makes the statement that you want to have sex with them.
User avatar #666 to #638 - nichsell (05/02/2012) [-]
Ok, I respect your beliefs even if I don't agree with you. I can already tell we are on a different page, but it doesn't mean we can't grow from conflicting beliefs.

First off, just because the bible says sex is wrong doesn't make it wrong, that was one of societies held beliefs back then, and since society changes so do ideas of morals or beliefs of what is right and wrong, so saying what is wrong is outside of your jurisdiction because everyone has their held belief one what is right and wrong.

Second, gay people can get married in some states and countries, to them it isn't about sex, it's about love it isn't an excuse to have sex. Even if they weren't married sex is just gonna come naturally with all couples.
third, sex, and gay sex is completely natural in the world, there are hundreds of animals that have gay sex, and even have life long partners with the same gender. So this shows strong evidence that gayness in the animal kingdom, and in human society is natural.
4th I'm not confusing love with sex, or saying that 'in love' is for sex, people that are 'in love' usually have very strong feelings for each other.
5th your idea of sustaining from sex is a very unrealistic, even if I agree with it to some extent. People that are sterile to not have sex is kind of crazy because it is in our nature as animals to have sex, that includes all humans, it is an essential part of all relationships/partnerships. It isn't about making babies, it is simply about getting closer.
While when you're in love with someone you don't expect anything back, but since sex is a necessity in life, and in strong relationships it usually is involved in all relationships, and if you don't need sex than you simply don't need it. To me it since wrong to have sex since it's natural it doesn't degrade relationship's or make relationships weaker it.

So there are my beliefs or ideas, did I miss anything? Also please don't feel offended in anyway, these are just my beliefs.
User avatar #672 to #666 - Vandeekree (05/02/2012) [-]
Well, everything you said that is along the lines of "other people(or animals) do it so it's ok" is a poor argument in my mind. Animals murder within their own species all the time but i don't see anyone arguing that part is natural. A lot of people and animals do other things you and I agree are wrong(I hope) so it seems you are picking and choosing.

The writings of the bible are not some laws made up by people a long time ago, they are the laws of God given to man and updated by Jesus. What you believe doesn't change what is actually right or wrong.
And yes, it is unrealistic for everyone, but i don't care about everyone, i care about each individual. If I can help one person live right then it's worth it. Just because i can't get everyone doesn't mean the rules should change to lower the bar so more people are in the right. But you are right, without God all those people are going around making up their own rules. Seems pointless.
And the bible doesn't say sex it wrong, it says out of marriage sex is wrong.

User avatar #676 to #672 - nichsell (05/02/2012) [-]
Well this leads to another interesting subject which is beliefs, just because the bible said says something, doesn't make it true, while you believe it is, billions of others don't. Everyone has their beliefs, nothing wrong with it, everyone has a code they live by, which yours is the bible. I got nothing but respect for you, for wanting people to live the 'right way', but the 'right way to live' is completely subjective. Because they have their own religious views or beliefs.

Also just because it's in nature doesn't mean it's right, it just means it's natural. But since being gay is in the biology, than it's extremely hard, not to mentioned emotionally torturous to deny what you are basically programed to be.
But since being gay isn't harming anyone, I don't consider it wrong.

But since this discussion is heading into religion, I will bid you a good day, because it would be pointless to argue about it.
I just hope you understood my point of view.
User avatar #678 to #676 - Vandeekree (05/02/2012) [-]
I'm afraid i simply can't stop on that point.
Of course not. Something written or said gives itself no truth. So then how can we know which religious texts are right if any? Because of the moral logic which it follows. There is an inherent superiority to one religion simply because it was written by God and..well...he knows everything. That is how you know which one is right. Think of it as natural selection but it does require the study and comparison of each religion in order to distinguish for sure but then if you're looking for the point of life then it seems like a decent way to spend time.

But I understand, so lets talk about the less religious half that you seem more comfortable with. The inherent biological "programmed" phenomenon that is a gay person.
The only thing that is programmed into a person is the urge to mate and produce offspring. It's true, you cannot deny what is programmed in. A person can't change their skin color or race or gender. But the urge to have sex with something is fully controllable. What are you attracted to when you want to get it on with someone? A form. You are attracted to their shape. A gay person's urge to mate is no more present than a straight person. In fact there is no such thing as a gay person, only someone who wants to have sex with the form of the same gender. In that way it is as ambiguous and learned as how different cultures prefer huge fat women and others see skinny women as attractive and some people can get turned on by clothes or cars or anything else. It is learned. The only strain that they feel is the urge to do something they want to do but are told is wrong.
User avatar #336 to #321 - Moushi (05/01/2012) [-]
You are right with one thing, love and sex are not the same thing, but this veteran loved this man with his heart, which is where true love comes from, not only with sex.
User avatar #351 to #336 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
That's not what being gay means. If you are gay you do not love someone, it means you are having sex with them. You can love someone without genitals ever entering into the relationship. However as soon as you want to have sex with them that is lust.
You can have a friend and love him to death but as soon as you want to stick your dick in him it isn't about "getting closer" it's about sexual attraction and lust for a physical shape that satisfies an urge to mate despite the fact that a resulting baby is...unlikely.
#426 to #351 - originalcherry (05/01/2012) [-]
To love someone, you must never have sex with them
ever

wut
User avatar #445 to #426 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
Not even close to what I'm saying. I'm saying love is simply that you want someone else to succeed, that you like them, care about them, and simply love them. Now sex is not needed for that relationship to happen. Sex is separate and while you can have sex with someone you love, it is only right to do that with a single person who you choose to be with through marriage. When should you marry someone? When you firstly love them and secondly want to have children with them.
#519 to #445 - anonymous (05/01/2012) [-]
I want to marry my lover and never have children. What now?
User avatar #621 to #519 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
Then there is no point to marrying. You're only doing it for the sex.
User avatar #474 to #445 - originalcherry (05/01/2012) [-]
Okay no offense I think your message is sincere, you were just initially conveying it in such a way that it was rather confusing and may have seemed bigoted to some people
User avatar #482 to #474 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
Yeah, from everyone's responses I apparently worded it...wrong. I'll have to work on it. Wish there were fewer "You're stupid" reply's and more "This is why I disagree..." ones though.
#406 to #351 - heyimathespian (05/01/2012) [-]
Totally isn't like you can love and lust after someone. The two commingle frequently from what I've seen
User avatar #380 to #351 - valfurious (05/01/2012) [-]
"Gay" means both happy, and that you are a male that prefers to be with another male, via relationship or sex. Either or. By your standard, gay marriage is just so they can fuck. We're all human, and they want to marry the person they love, no matter what gender, I say let them be.
User avatar #416 to #380 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
That's exactly what marriage(gay or straight) is. "So you can fuck." Nothing changes from before marriage till after. You see someone, decide you want to get pregnant with them and get married. But if you are marrying someone just for sex then it was done for lust, not because you love them. Sex and love are not the same thing.
#511 to #416 - anonymous (05/01/2012) [-]
There are quite a few things wrong with that statement.
Children can be born outside of wedlock (people can also have sex before they get married), not everyone who is in love wants to get married, and not everyone who gets married wants to have children.
Being gay is LOVING a person of the opposite sex. Not just wanting to have sex with them... You should go look up the different defined kinds of love because you seem to be having trouble with this. There's love for partners, love for friends, love for family/really close friends, and altruistic love.

User avatar #619 to #511 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
I'm not saying children can't be born out of wedlock, only that they shouldn't(as in no sex).
I'm all for people who love each other not getting married, but that means no sex.
But you seem to be the one that's confused, there is only one kind of love and it is the same love used for everyone.
#370 to #351 - anonymous (05/01/2012) [-]
Being gay is barely about sex

Regards, a gay gay
User avatar #381 to #370 - Moushi (05/01/2012) [-]
This guy is obviously demented, maybe he would like to join the Westboro baptist cult.
User avatar #379 to #370 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
Being gay is completely about sex. What is the difference between you and me?(assuming you are male)
It's that you have sex with men or at least would while I wouldn't. That is what it means to be gay.
It's about an action you would take, and that action is sex.
User avatar #357 to #351 - Moushi (05/01/2012) [-]
Doesn't your "logic" also include straight couples. By your "logic" no one who has ever had sex loves each other.
User avatar #372 to #357 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
I'm not saying they are mutually exclusive. But one is not needed for the other to happen.
#418 to #372 - anonymous (05/01/2012) [-]
U sir are absolutely retarded.   
By your logic... Once you want to have sex it no longer means love...?   
Not only is "making love" another way of saying sex, but I'd like to assume that you've never fallen in love.?   
Maybe you are too young and naive which is why you are making such a proposition.   
People fall in love, straight couples, they love each other because of the way each other are.   
Physical attraction, personality, emotions, the way they just can be comfortable with each other.   
Are you saying a guy cannot fall in love with another man?   
They too have the ability to see physical attraction, personality and emotional attraction of another man.   
These are traits that lead to love, and these people do in fact love each other.   
Sex is just something that comes along with it and only if you trust one another unless you are drunk out of your mind and you end up having a one night stand.   
I'd say straight people are more corrupt than gay people imo.   
There is a social norm where people need to get laid.   
People will get drunk at a party and have a one night stand with another.   
Unlike gay people they aren't as social and it takes a lot of effort for them to even come out of the closet let alone find someone with the same sexual orientation with them and end up falling in love.   
People like what they like.   
And once again you are fucking retarded.   
-Straight guy-
U sir are absolutely retarded.
By your logic... Once you want to have sex it no longer means love...?
Not only is "making love" another way of saying sex, but I'd like to assume that you've never fallen in love.?
Maybe you are too young and naive which is why you are making such a proposition.
People fall in love, straight couples, they love each other because of the way each other are.
Physical attraction, personality, emotions, the way they just can be comfortable with each other.
Are you saying a guy cannot fall in love with another man?
They too have the ability to see physical attraction, personality and emotional attraction of another man.
These are traits that lead to love, and these people do in fact love each other.
Sex is just something that comes along with it and only if you trust one another unless you are drunk out of your mind and you end up having a one night stand.
I'd say straight people are more corrupt than gay people imo.
There is a social norm where people need to get laid.
People will get drunk at a party and have a one night stand with another.
Unlike gay people they aren't as social and it takes a lot of effort for them to even come out of the closet let alone find someone with the same sexual orientation with them and end up falling in love.
People like what they like.
And once again you are fucking retarded.
-Straight guy-
User avatar #435 to #418 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
I never said that once you have sex love disappears. I said that love has nothing to do with sex. I can love a man to death, share all my closest secrets, feel so comfortable around him all we do is fart and laugh and never once have sex with him because that is lust. Now if you are that close with a woman then it's fine to get married and have a child but there is no way to have a child with another man because of...well the obvious.
User avatar #376 to #372 - Moushi (05/01/2012) [-]
No, explain to me how when straight people fall in love and eventually have sex, then it's still love, but when two gay people fall in love and eventually have sex it's no longer love. Amuse me.
User avatar #405 to #376 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
You misunderstand. I'm not saying there is anything different between gay or straight sex. Sex is different than love. Just with a gay couple, a straight couple can have sex with or without love.
The difference is that a straight couple can have a child which is the point of a "coupling." For the sake of the child. You can love as many people as you want and I encourage it, but you should only have sex for children(not that once you have picked the person with which you want to have a child you can't enjoy it)
User avatar #429 to #405 - electrozombie (05/01/2012) [-]
You're an idiot.
User avatar #449 to #429 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
I have yet to claim otherwise. But thank you for sharing your thoughts.
User avatar #451 to #449 - electrozombie (05/01/2012) [-]
You are quite welcome.
User avatar #469 to #451 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
You don't seem to want to argue so instead I will offer this.
You need to login to view this link
User avatar #422 to #405 - Moushi (05/01/2012) [-]
So what you are saying is that sterile couples can't experience love, older couples can't experience love, and couples that don't want children can't experience love. Tell me how a gay couple suddenly are not in love the moment they have sex. So far, you make absolutely no sense. A gay couple can have children through surrogates or through adoption.
User avatar #438 to #422 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
No no, I'm saying that love is a thing that happens between two people regardless of genders and physical abilities. And if you love someone then there is no limit to how close you can get. However sex is something that does not need to happen for that love to exist. I would say that couples can have an equally if not closer relationship because the sex tends to get in the way with a lot of couples. Love and sex are not related. And if an older couple are still together once sex is impossible then that is true love. Love that happened before the sex and after the sex has stopped.
#414 to #405 - heyimathespian (05/01/2012) [-]
So when you have sex, you never use a condom? Your girl is never on the pill? Do you time when you have sex to when she is ovulating? If not, then you are having sex due to lust. Not that you can't lust after a thing you love, or that one can't exist without the other. However, that's the same for anyone, regardless of orientation.
User avatar #425 to #414 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
I said "not that you can't enjoy it."
You are fully allowed to have sex for the pleasure but not just for the pleasure, it is also for the relationship that was established for the purpose of having children. Now if you want to live with another man and help each other out and get all the benefits that come with fully trusting another person that is fine, but there is no reason to have sex.
#434 to #425 - heyimathespian (05/01/2012) [-]
Yes there is. Because you love the person, in an intimate, physical way as well.
Do you not have types? Race, cup size, whatever? People have sexual preferences, and that includes different genders. That's not something one chooses for themselves, and it's certainly not up to you to choose it for them
User avatar #465 to #434 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
Yes. Race, cup size and whatever all come from that same lust. That lust is what I'm saying is not ok to act on. I would argue that most of that is learned and chosen but that would be an entirely different argument.
Those things all come from the urge to mate and get the best mate. Now there is no way to have a child with the same gender and so all sex with them is fake and without purpose besides fulfilling a physical urge. That is why the only sex you should have is with someone you marry for the sake of having children. But that doesn't mean you can love anyone and everyone else even more than your wife so long as you don't lust after them and definitely don't have sex with them. Love between two men is a beautiful thing, but for some reason society is only able to see it as a sexual thing. It's not ok to have sex with someone of the same gender, but you should love everyone as much as you can.
#486 to #465 - heyimathespian (05/01/2012) [-]
Look, it's quite obvious you're on a completely different page. It's fine for two people to have sex regardless of gender, so long as it's consensual, and you aren't the sex police or God or Satan or someone close to those, and it is not your job to decide other people's sex life.
User avatar #496 to #486 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
Of course not, I'm not making these decisions, only trying to explain what's right according to the guy who is God. And sex outside of marriage is simply not right. I'm not telling you what to do, only what you should do. It just gets to me when people use the word "love" incorrectly and I feel I should say something. You're welcome to disagree but the original point I was trying to make is that love and sex are not the same thing and as such he was not discharged for loving someone, he was discharged for saying he would do something(have gay sex).
#504 to #496 - heyimathespian (05/01/2012) [-]
Cool, pull out Bible verses from Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Those books also say don't eat shellfish, and stone your wife if she disobeys you. Just a tad outdated. And saying you aren't telling me what to do, just what I should do, is splitting hairs. Both make you look like some kind of ass, and make me think less of you. Love and sex may not be the same, but that doesn't mean they don't intertwine, and in today's society, if a man says he loves a man, it will be taken as he is homosexual.
User avatar #613 to #504 - Vandeekree (05/01/2012) [-]
Those are old testament and part of the law that Jesus came to fulfill. Never once did I say "Do this or else I'll..." I'm only tell you the truth. I'm not trying to make you do these things, I'm trying to show you that they are the right things to do and hope you see it. If it makes me come off as an ass then that's really not the way it's meant.
But I find it so sad that if i come up and say I love you then anyone who sees automatically thinks i mean I want to have sex with you. That exactly what I'm trying to speak against. The separation of love and sex. Yes they intertwine but anything you do with someone you love intertwines with that love.
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