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What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#13 - artillerysmith (04/26/2012) [-]
I made this after a co-worker asked me why I enjoyed going to the range so much. I hope if you all enjoy it enough I may upload it. My friend took the picture with his camera and I added the text.
#27 to #13 - whaleman (04/26/2012) [-]
Its not the bullet its the person. Bullets don't have a sense of purpose they just exist.
User avatar #25 to #13 - xxleoxx (04/26/2012) [-]
Just remember all you crazy gun loving Americans I've lost 3 family members to gun violence.
User avatar #219 to #25 - artillerysmith (04/27/2012) [-]
I'm truly sorry for your loss. Some people use guns for evil reasons.

Just because guns are used for evil doesn't mean that they can't be used for good though.
#73 to #25 - thamuz (04/26/2012) [-]
Guns dont kill people. People kill people. People are the ones who pull the trigger.   
   
A gun is just an inanimate object. Like a paintbrush or a tool. Its only actions are determined by whomever is using it.   
My paintbrush will not paint a masterpiece will it? My wrench will not turn bolts on its own will it? My rifle will not shoot on its own will it? I have to be the one to paint that picture,turn that bolt,and pull that trigger.   
   
Making guns harder to get will only make the problem worse.
Guns dont kill people. People kill people. People are the ones who pull the trigger.

A gun is just an inanimate object. Like a paintbrush or a tool. Its only actions are determined by whomever is using it.
My paintbrush will not paint a masterpiece will it? My wrench will not turn bolts on its own will it? My rifle will not shoot on its own will it? I have to be the one to paint that picture,turn that bolt,and pull that trigger.

Making guns harder to get will only make the problem worse.
User avatar #94 to #73 - EpicFacePalm (04/26/2012) [-]
I agree that this is the United States and that guns should be legal. But Making guns harder to get most certainly will make the problem better. There are too many unjustified gun related deaths where the owner of the gun bought the gun legally. I am tired of guns being legally sold to people nowhere near mentally capable to handle one.

Gun related murder by people who legally own their guns is much more of a problem than people obtaining them illegally.
User avatar #102 to #94 - thamuz (04/26/2012) [-]
I think the reverse happens. Ever notice,countries with lower drinking ages have much less problems with alcohol? Here its a huge issue. Its the forbidden fruit concept. Making things harder to get,will only make people want them more. And go to more lengths to get them.

And anyways,guns are incredibly simple to make,theres plenty of guides on the internet,and the only part of the gun that is registered is the receiver itself. Wouldnt surprise me that someone with enough mechanical knowledge could build their own with a block of metal and a good milling machine.
User avatar #223 to #102 - EpicFacePalm (04/27/2012) [-]
Well I live in the U.S., and the reverse most certain does not happen. Most unjustified gun related deaths are committed by legally bought firearms.

Another thing gun enthusiasts say, is "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

As if some of those murderers would have killed anyway without the guns. When in reality, a lot of murders just wouldn't occur, if the killers didn't have access to a gun. With a gun, so much less confidence is needed to rob some place for example.

A gun owner is 20X more likely to rob a place compared to someone who only has a knife, for obvious reasons.
#227 to #223 - techketzer (04/27/2012) [-]
Everything you said is wrong. Utterly and totally wrong.
I am near speechless at how one can be so incredibly ignorant, yet at the same time act like he knows it all.
You are performing a retard's dance aorund the core of this question and try to fog up the issue. Are you afraid to name the elephant in the room or are you that ignorant?

It's not about guns. Crime isn't about guns or weapons, it never was.
Guns do not pull triggers, knifes do not stab on their own, it is always a human that uses these tools to further his interests.
And that is the core issue. Man being willing to commit crimes. Man being insensitive to the needs of his fellows, Man ignoring the pain and suffering he causes to others, Man willing to kill and murder for selfish goals.
Man willing to do evil.

The intent is what kills.
The weapon is merely a tool to an end. It is impossible to end crime and violence by banning tools even if these bans were successful, beacuse Man would adapt and develop new ways to inflict violence.
That's what we've done for millions of years now.

You want human crime and violence gone?
Change the human. No other way.
User avatar #229 to #227 - EpicFacePalm (04/27/2012) [-]
You underestimate the complexity of the human mind, because all you want is to protect your precious guns.

I speak nothing but fact. Living just outside of Philadelphia, and having worked in emergency services for years now, I can even experience the statistics myself.

Guns related deaths by legally bought guns are much higher than by those with illegally obtained guns. This is fact, and is non negotiable.

Another fact, is that gun owners have a much higher chance to commit a violent crime than those who do not own a gun. This should be obvious to anyone capable of rudimentary logical thought. The intent does kill, but not intent alone. Intent + means kill.

Take away the means, and you can half the death.

You cannot forcefully change human behavior, and I'm personally disgusted you could suggest it.

Gun control > Mind control.
User avatar #230 to #229 - techketzer (04/28/2012) [-]
I underestimate nothing. What I said is a completely obvious truth: If nobody is willing to use violence, no violence will be inflicted on anyone. How the **** could one even disagree with that? Its like saying 1+1=3-1.

I'm not protecting my precious guns. I don't have any guns.

"Guns related deaths by legally bought guns are much higher than by those with illegally obtained guns. This is fact, and is non negotiable. "
" Another fact, is that gun owners have a much higher chance to commit a violent crime than those who do not own a gun."
Sources and evidence to both of these statements, please, or I'll dismiss them as unproven and worthless.

"Take away the means, and you can half the death."
Utterly wrong. Look at Great Britain, completely disproves the entire argument.

"You cannot forcefully change human behavior, and I'm personally disgusted you could suggest it."
Let me get this straight. You want to impose a total ban on the human behavior of owning weapons, probably with imposing the Orwellian nightmare state it takes to enforce these bans, yet you are "disgusted" by me suggesting peaceful parenting and respecting the rights of others?

You hypocrite ************ .
I'm done with you.
User avatar #226 to #223 - thamuz (04/27/2012) [-]
*shrug* I just blame society. We are too lax about somethings. I.e gang violence. Our media promotes that **** .
#55 to #25 - shadownexis (04/26/2012) [-]
Just remember guns are not violent people are.
User avatar #31 to #25 - techketzer (04/26/2012) [-]
They could still be around had they had a gun to defend themselves.
Losing family to violent attackers is avoidable.
User avatar #33 to #31 - xxleoxx (04/26/2012) [-]
I don't think you should need a gun leaving a grocery store,you know?
#46 to #33 - Womens Study Major (04/26/2012) [-]
Where I live, its actually not a bad idea.
User avatar #35 to #33 - techketzer (04/26/2012) [-]
True, that is much preferable.

Doesn't hurt to have one, though, and could save lives any time.
Think of the Utoya massacre. A gun in the right hands could have saved 70+ lives that day.
User avatar #36 to #35 - xxleoxx (04/26/2012) [-]
Very true, I'm not saying outlaw completely I'm saying make it eaiser to get guns in the right hands and impossible in the to get in the wrong.
User avatar #38 to #36 - techketzer (04/26/2012) [-]
"impossible in the to get in the wrong."
Humanity has failed at that for millennia.
I think of those efforts as a total waste of resources and time.

It is much more efficient in my opinion to be prepared, trained and equipped when these "wrong hands" strike in order to show them there are no victims here, only people very well capable of defending themselves.
User avatar #40 to #38 - xxleoxx (04/26/2012) [-]
Well this debate is doing nothing but getting me tons of red thumbs. I don't like knowing i can get shot for any reason every time i leave my house but nor do i wish to walk around knowing i can shoot anyone at anytime.
In my dream world there is no guns if your gonna try to kill me i have a chance to save myself is stead of just a click
User avatar #41 to #40 - techketzer (04/26/2012) [-]
You cannot dis-invent the gun, if you mean that.

And come on, let's face it:
You could die any second of your life, from whatever cause.
There's no guarantee you'll be still alive when I hit "reply" on what I just wrote.
There's no guarantee I will live to hit that button, either, come to think of it...

Anyway, your dream world is a dream.
There are guns, and they are going nowhere anytime soon.
Face reality, even if it's a grim one, and do the logical thing: Get the best means to defend your life and loved ones, namely a gun and proper training.
User avatar #42 to #41 - xxleoxx (04/26/2012) [-]
You are right I could just drop for any reason what so ever.
Getting a gun and proper training doesn't give me a breath of security.
Living in a place were it isn't as easy as it is in America does.

My entire point is that its easy here and i shouldn't be.
User avatar #43 to #42 - techketzer (04/26/2012) [-]
"Getting a gun and proper training doesn't give me a breath of security."
Security is an illusion. There is no such thing.
Having the best possible means and knowledge to defend yourself from harm and violence is the closest thing you can get, however.

It's just as easy here in Austria if you're willing to break the laws.
Vienna, 200€, 1-2 hours, and there you are.

If you criminalize weapons, only criminals will be armed.
User avatar #54 to #43 - jacencaedus (04/26/2012) [-]
you are completely right there sir, security is an illusion. I can not remember where the saying came from, but I like to think of it as the paranoid man's motto. "When you feel most secure, you aren't"
User avatar #28 to #25 - fallenpatriot (04/26/2012) [-]
I'll bet you anything it wasn't from a legally owned and licensed gun. Taking away legal guns just puts you lower than those who will get it illegally anyway.
User avatar #30 to #28 - xxleoxx (04/26/2012) [-]
Your right but its to easy in this country to get a gun i mean realistically i could go out and come home with a gun if about 2 hours its horrible. I think owing anything but small hand guns and hunting rifles is just to dumb. I mean no legitmate reason a person need an uzi to "protect" their family.
User avatar #215 to #30 - artillerysmith (04/27/2012) [-]
Well, I almost agree with you. I don't really see the point of owning a full auto uzi, but I would definitely own a semi auto version, simply because owning a full auto gun of any kind anywhere in the US allows federal marshals to walk into your home and do random checks. I don't like that idea in the least. Another reason I don't like full auto guns is that they're not accurate in the least. If I wanted to be inaccurate I would use a shotgun.

Now here is why some people own guns. (Me for instance) Competition shooting has never been that big in the US, but there are some teams scattered around. I used to shoot, high powered rifle bare, high powered rifle scope, muzzle loader, and pistol. For those competitions you kind of need your own guns. Those guns would also double as personal defense if someone were to break into my house, but let's be honest, no intelligent thief is going to break into your house while you're inside, so my vault stays closed.

As far as every day carry and concealed carry, the world is going to have to spiral just a little further out of control before I deem it necessary to carry a gun with me everywhere I go. Maybe I've got it too good where I live, I don't know. Right now I'll stick with my leatherman tool.

Also, I'd like to touch on your 2 hour time table. To buy a pistol there is a waiting period. The only guns you can buy the same day are rifles and shotguns. If you can fill out the paper work required to buy a rifle or a shotgun in 2 hours I applaud your penmanship skills.


User avatar #59 to #30 - maggotinfantry (04/26/2012) [-]
The 2nd Amendment of the United States Constitution was not only put into effect to protect our citizens from foreign invasion but also domestic oppression. With the passing of laws like NDAA and numerous attempts to disarm and control the information that citizens are allowed access to, the more likely thing we'll have to defend ourselves from is our own damn government. Also, if some thugs with Uzis try to invade your home to rape your family and burn them alive in front of you, a ******* revolver isn't going to do much is it?
User avatar #53 to #30 - AcidFlux (04/26/2012) [-]
Okay, now I'm convinced you're either trolling, or totally ******* ignorant about how gun laws work.
You can't just go out and legally buy a firearm whenever you feel like it.
Go to a local gun store, and ask about the required procedures, and then maybe you'll have some actual knowledge instead of ignorant paranoia.
#96 to #53 - Womens Study Major (04/26/2012) [-]
you can actually totally just go out and buy a firearm whenever you feel like it, it depends on the gun and the state, in MI i totally just went out to a gun show and bought a de-milled AK because I felt like it... here long guns require no permit, there is a little bit of paper work and i think a backround check while you wait but there were litterally 10 minutes between "hey mister I wanna buy that gun" and "congratulations on your new gun, have a nice day"

Pistols need a permit, if you don't have a CPL, if you get that then you can totally just go out and buy a pistol whenever because you feel like it... and then carry it loaded almost anywhere you go!!

the more you know
User avatar #114 to #96 - AcidFlux (04/26/2012) [-]
My point was the background check. xxleoxx didn't seem to understand that it's not just "Take my money, give me the gun". I was hoping he'd be prompted to do the research, and realize that there are legal procedures involved.
#39 to #30 - Aejax (04/26/2012) [-]
You have no clue what you're talking about when it comes to firearms and gun control in general.

Live any where close to a big city? Good luck defending yourself from hundreds of rioters with "small handguns and hunting rifles." Pic related. These Korean Shop Owners were able to defend themselves during the 1992 LA riots with the items you demonize.
User avatar #32 to #30 - techketzer (04/26/2012) [-]
"Need" is no argument.
Every person has the freedom of ownership, no one gets to infringe that for whatever reasons.

I respect your opinion even though I disagree with it, but forcing it onto others is unnacceptable.
User avatar #34 to #32 - xxleoxx (04/26/2012) [-]
I understand that we have a right to ownership but a gun is a tool used only to kill whether it be animals or people. That responsibility alone take it out of the normal category of ownership and in my opinion calls for major control i don't like giving other people the right to choose whether i live or die with something as small as a trigger pull
User avatar #217 to #34 - artillerysmith (04/27/2012) [-]
Have you considered you could be stabbed as well?
User avatar #60 to #34 - jacencaedus (04/26/2012) [-]
*sigh* You live here in the U.S. correct?
2nd amendment ALL CITIZENS have the right to bear arms. Yes people abuse that right, which is why it takes months of background checks to get a firearm license. Still some people are able to abuse that right, which is why us law abiding citizens also have this right, to PROTECT OURSELVES. Your opinion is an IDEAL world situation, where everyone is perfect, there are no wars, no crime, no violence what-so-ever. THIS IS NOT AN IDEAL WORLD. There are desperate people out there who will try to rob you to get their next meal. In this world, the saying "Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it"
#101 to #60 - Womens Study Major (04/26/2012) [-]
>"months of background checks to get a firearm license"
where the **** do you people live? where i live I can get a pistol, rifle, or shotgun same day, background check takes minutes, not months and there is no "firearms license"

there is a pistol purchase permit which you need to get from the police to by a pistol if you don't have a CPL (concealed pistol license- a license to carry a loaded gun, concealed on your person or in your vehicle) but even that only takes a few minutes
User avatar #216 to #101 - artillerysmith (04/27/2012) [-]
Kentucky. Also you could just buy from a citizen and skip the paper work all together. In Kentucky a private citizen is allowed to sell 10 guns a year.
User avatar #37 to #34 - techketzer (04/26/2012) [-]
"in my opinion calls for major control "

Alright, have your major control. For you, that is.
You have no right whatsoever to tell others what they can and cannot own for whatever reasons and to whatever conditions.

Also, there are thousands of exquisitely deadly items out there.
Kitchen knives, screwdrivers, glass bottles, a length of steel pipe, pencils, even a heavy book can be used to kill very efficiently.

And then are the weapons I can build myself.
Slingshots strong enough to puncture skulls, 60 lbs bows from fiberglass rod, spear throwers, or the most basic sling.

You cannot outlaw weapons.
You'd need an orwellian nightmare state only to enforce those laws.
User avatar #22 to #13 - fuzzyballs (04/26/2012) [-]
you need to work on your poetic urges
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