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What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#30 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
Personally, I believe that the Leopard 2 would beat the Abrams hands down.
#105 to #30 - Uranium (03/10/2013) [-]
They're pretty much identical tanks they came from the same development program. The main difference between the two is power plants. The Abrams uses a multi-fuel gas turbine and the Panther uses a more conventional V-12 diesel. This gives the Abrams an edge in speed. Thats the only real difference
User avatar #234 to #105 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
Abrams - 35 mph top speed
Leopard - 45 mph top speed

The Abrams also only has an operation range of 265 miles, whilst the Leopard has one of 340 miles.
#236 to #234 - Uranium (03/10/2013) [-]
Also you say that it would beat an Abrams hands down. They're practically identical and no Abrams has been destroyed in a tank on tank battle. There was one occasion where there was a friendly fire incident with an Apache attack helicopter (which is designed to destroy tanks) targeted four Abrams tanks. The tanks were disabled the crew survived and all four were back in operation in three days. There was another instance where an Abrams got stuck in a river bed and it was decided it would of been easier to destroy it then to tow it out an Abrams fired three DU rounds in to it and was still unable to destroy it.
#235 to #234 - Uranium (03/10/2013) [-]
The Abrams top speed is governed down to 45 mph and its unloaded top speed is around 60-65 mph
User avatar #238 to #235 - fuckya (03/11/2013) [-]
The Leopard is known for being the fastest operational MBT.

Only one recorded KIA for both the Leopard as well as the Abrams. Leopard being an IED hit where the Danish driver got stuck (often happens) and died after traveling ~30 meters after detonation. Abrams with a few RPG hits on the Norfolk line in '91.

The only edge that people who support the Abrams have is that it is combat tested (all arguments ground down to that). The Leopard sports a 120 mm cannon, whilst the Abrams a 105 mm cannon (both made by Rheinmetall, a German manufacturer).

All in all, this is a debate that won't end until the tanks go at it face to face, which will never happen, seeing how the future in combat is NATO forces using other countries for target practice, up until it's China.
User avatar #50 to #30 - Endofzeeworld ONLINE (03/10/2013) [-]
Fact of life, Jerry also got us beat in the Armor department, but Shermans are the reason we won the war in Africa. The Crusader was a glorified soapbox racer.
#38 to #30 - anon (03/10/2013) [-]
the Leopard 2 and abrams are nearly the same tank. The aiming system, gun and all other technical things are on the same level. but the big plus on the leopard is that it doesnt need as much maintenace as the abrams and his engine only need HALF as much as the turbine from the abrams. so technically the Leopard 2 is the better tank.
in a real battle 1vs1 its rather important how skilled the crew of the tank is. and this point goes aswell to the germans. They win nearly every international tanker competition or get at least into the top 3.
#46 to #38 - oedad (03/10/2013) [-]
I'm sorry who is the only nation with actual combat experience in the last 20 years in large scale armored warfare? The U.S has been embroiled in combat pretty much since 1991 and combat experience is immeasurably more valuable than any training could ever be.
#176 to #46 - thereasonableperso ONLINE (03/10/2013) [-]
If you're refering to the Iraq war you're wrong. The Abrams out classed the T-72 in every way, plus the iraqi T-72s were very basic. THE TURRETS WERE TURNED MANUALLY!
Armored warfare in that war was target practice for the Abrams.
User avatar #57 to #46 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
There are multiple different countries that operate both vehicles. I could have meant Canada (Leopard) vs. Egypt (Abrams).
#35 to #30 - Muppetz (03/10/2013) [-]
I'm in a tank unit.
I respectfully disagree.
User avatar #58 to #35 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
I would actually enjoy hearing your reason why you believe this. (No sarcasm)
User avatar #76 to #58 - Muppetz (03/10/2013) [-]
Mostly just my personal opinion.
To be perfectly honest it's mostly because of the confidence I have in my own crewmen.
If you get down to the itty bits of it, the two tanks aren't that different.
It depends a lot on just who has the tactical advantage and who gets the shot off first.
But I've never seen an Abrams get beat. There's a reason we don't get them ourselves. We think it's a better fighting machine.

If you really want my opinion. Tank V Tank is kind of an irrelevant argument.
It just doesn't happen anymore.
Like our jobs as Marine Corps tankers is to support ground forces. If we see a tank, we'll probably just drop an airstrike on it.
At the end of the day it's a pretty even match.
#156 to #76 - anon (03/10/2013) [-]
As far as the tanks go, there are several better tanks out there. The main reason the Abrams is used as much as it is is because of how inexpensive they are. The military channel had a special on the top 5 in use today and the Abrams was #5 and was the cheapest out of the 5. It was also the least fuel efficient despite being the 2nd lightest. I understand that you have an American bias though so i won't try to argue it out with you. I recommend looking up the video sometime. It is also the same with our rifles now as well.
User avatar #79 to #76 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
Well, I wont argue that the average US crewman would better at using his tank in a combat scenario than to a German's, but I was just saying that the pure tank itself (basically clone two crews and give them the exact same everything, just different tanks).

With the first shot, correct me if I'm wrong but I heard that the Abrams has an effective range of 3 miles, whilst the Leopard has one of 6. And the reason why we keep the Abrams is because we tend to stick to American weaponary (Spec. Ops. actually tends to go to H&K for weapons do to the 'German Quality, but that's not tanks, so idk why I'm bringing it up).

And yes, Tank vs. Tank doesn't really happen anymore and I don't think an Abrams or a Leopard could compete against an A-10 Warthog strafing run or an AH-64 Longbow.
#81 to #79 - shaddowmarshal (03/10/2013) [-]
military here also so might be a bit one sided, but from what i know of ROE we do use air superiority to take out enemy tanks and most tanks are now used as heavy artillery, such as paladins and with other militarys such as Germans not as active as ours currently is *so we know how to work situations well from day to day experience*, our experience from the warfare would put any and all our crews at a more advantageous position then most any other military
also picture sorta related
User avatar #83 to #81 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
But when's the last time the US had actual tank on tank warfare? Middle East doesn't really count in my opinion, was still tank on tank, but was pretty one sided the entire time both invasions.
User avatar #85 to #83 - shaddowmarshal (03/10/2013) [-]
true, and i dont think there is gonna be a real fight like that for a good few years yet
User avatar #86 to #85 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
TvT is pretty much obsolete considering air superiority renders the enemy armor moot and the bradley is christened 'The Tank Killer'.
User avatar #80 to #79 - Muppetz (03/10/2013) [-]
We use a bunch of German **** though.
ALl of our SAWs are getting replaced by H&K IARs...eventually
and our M9s are getting replaced by a .45 (I think its HK)

And range is an almost moot argument. In Dessert Storm we use to park the ******* on a steep hill and use tanks as Long Range artillery.
#128 to #80 - anon (03/10/2013) [-]
I like you.
#129 to #128 - Muppetz (03/10/2013) [-]
and I like YOU random user!
User avatar #82 to #80 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
I heard about the IARs thing. Didn't know it went through. And I actually believe that the US has better handguns.

And how far of a range did you get with the Abrams when you put it on a hill? (Also, what variant do you operate?)
User avatar #90 to #82 - Muppetz (03/10/2013) [-]
And I wasn't there in Desert Storm. I'm just referencing.
We like JUST got back from Afghanistan. So our tanks went off to re-build.
So I'm not sure what they are right now to be perfectly honest with you.
I haven't seen them since they got back. I've been at home.
User avatar #91 to #90 - fuckya (03/10/2013) [-]
Ah, well. Thanks for serving our country mate, I plan on joining once I leave high school. I'm down to +2 thumbs on content now, so I'm off.
User avatar #34 to #30 - Leopard (03/10/2013) [-]
Trust me, I can beat anything.
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