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#7 - infinitereaper (10/15/2013) [-]
>use substitute
>enemy attacks
>substitute breaks
>right back where you started.

I was never good at using the move.
#95 to #7 - ohgodwaitimatheist (10/15/2013) [-]
There are ways to use a substitute for good extent.

1 - Use when your opponent switches pokemon
2 - Use when your opponent uses a non-damage move on you (toxic, swagger, etc)
3 - Use when your opponent uses protect/detect
4 - When your opponent can't hit over your substitute. Let's say, a pokemon with base 100HP with 252 EVs at level 100 will have 404 HP (there are many pokemon fitting there, namely, Jirachi, Tyranitar, Celebi, Vicitini, and so on). If your opponent only damage move is Seismic Toss or Night Shade (this is commom) he will fail to break your substitute for 1HP.
5 - When the healing rate of your pokemon is over 25% (imagine Ludicolo with Rain Dish/Leech Seed/Leftovers OR a pokemon with Dry Skin, or Poison Heal, be creative).
6 - When there is a chance your opponent will fail the move, like unlikely accuraccy of Dynamic Punch/Zap Cannon or for being asleep, paralyzed, etc).

There are ways to overcome your opponent substitute:

1 - Having a pokemon that you know your opponent won't do much damage, while you manage to break the substitute. For example, Volcarona behind a substitute, Tentacruel is an example of good counter.
2 - Taunt
3 - Phazing (pseudo-hazing, for starters), which means using moves that forces your opponent out, such as Whilrwind, Roar, Dragon Tail, Circle Throw.
4 - Multi-hit moves, like Double Slap, Icicle Spear, Bullet Seed, Arm Thrust, etc
5 - Break the substitute, then use a finishing priority move, like Extremespeed (if it doesn't faint, at least make it drop bellow 25%).

Pokemon is a Kids' Game, alright.
User avatar #50 to #7 - ericzxvc (10/15/2013) [-]
Substitute protects you from things such as status, leech seed, or other non-damaging moves. So you use sub, opponent uses thunder wave- can't act through sub, you just got a free turn. It has many more benefits though, since a sub takes 25% of your health if an opponents move does 24% then it won't break your sub so therefore it will take two turns to break so you end up taking 25% damage instead of 48%. There are infinitely more uses for it that I could go into, but case in point it's one of the most useful moves in the game.
User avatar #31 to #7 - makotoitou (10/15/2013) [-]
Use it on a switch/resisted hit.
User avatar #28 to #7 - ivysaurftw (10/15/2013) [-]
>Use Toxic
>Use sub
>sub breaks
>Use sub
>Sub breaks
>Use sub
>Target dies

Its a disgusting but useful tactic online
User avatar #48 to #28 - ericzxvc (10/15/2013) [-]
Not quite, because you can't make subs forever. However there are ways around it, for instance the best toxic staller is Gliscor who regains 1/8 of its health every turn thanks to poison heal who can use substitute which takes 25% of its health and then protect on the next turn in order to regain that 1/8 plus the regain 1/8 after the sub turn and make infinite substitutes. There are other options such as leech seed and rain dish which allow you to regain all the health lost from the sub in order to make infinite subs.
User avatar #112 to #48 - cjfj (10/28/2013) [-]
Punctuation, man. **** .
User avatar #29 to #28 - infinitereaper (10/15/2013) [-]
I can't wait to abuse bullet punch.
#86 to #29 - notafunnyguy (10/15/2013) [-]
how will that move get abused?
User avatar #87 to #86 - infinitereaper (10/15/2013) [-]
Well it would be good on a sub user? Sub doesn't have priority right? I know Scizor (still trying to a female shiny one) is the best user of the move.
User avatar #23 to #7 - unlimitedsmoof ONLINE (10/15/2013) [-]
It's good for blocking a move you can see coming like solar beam or focus punch, plus you can make your enemy waste a pp-hungry move like hydro pump or fissure
User avatar #24 to #23 - infinitereaper (10/15/2013) [-]
Yeah I know it has applications I'm just very bad with it. I'll focus on my own strategies I guess. I'm just super worried about hte new metagame since I haven't even gathered scizor ralts or hydriegon or whatever he's called.
User avatar #44 to #24 - oliveirajo (10/15/2013) [-]
And I'm just here with a team made out of 6 full item maxed legendaries and trying to win with brute force.. since '01
#45 to #44 - infinitereaper (10/15/2013) [-]
Legendaries just aren't my style. I plan to carry 3 pseudolegendaries though.
#46 to #45 - oliveirajo (10/15/2013) [-]
Most of any piece of 			****		 I call my strategy is based on Kyogre and Groudon's ultimate moves. I guess that's not the best thing I could do.
Most of any piece of **** I call my strategy is based on Kyogre and Groudon's ultimate moves. I guess that's not the best thing I could do.
User avatar #41 to #24 - thesinful (10/15/2013) [-]
Don't worry; no matter how bad you are, there's someone far worse. Case in point, I fought a guy once who had a grass type (Liligant maybe) that knew Giga Drain, Petal Dance, Energy Ball, and Leech Seed. He insisted it was a great pokemon that never lost him a match. Then I one shotted it 3 times, each time with a different pokemon. Staraptor with Brave Bird, Slowbro with Fire Blast, and Scizor with Bug Bite
User avatar #77 to #41 - infinitereaper (10/15/2013) [-]
but I want to be the very best

like no one ever was

one of my dreams is to win a tournament someday
User avatar #90 to #77 - thesinful (10/15/2013) [-]
Well good on you if ya manage it. I've only played against friends and friends of friends.
User avatar #25 to #24 - unlimitedsmoof ONLINE (10/15/2013) [-]
I haven't played since Gen4, didn't really care to play B/W, and I never played competitively except with friends, so whatever metagame there is or was flew right over my head.
User avatar #26 to #25 - infinitereaper (10/15/2013) [-]
Yeah I'm pretty new to the scene. My shiny team I hope isn't going to waste, but I'm sure I'll just have to make a few tweaks.
User avatar #10 to #7 - dansota **User deleted account** (10/15/2013) [-]
You have to use it with Pokemon that have lots of health, like Wailord.
User avatar #12 to #10 - honkan (10/15/2013) [-]
How does that help? Sorry, never been any good at Pokemon. I just did a ton of leveling up and just made my Pokemon strong enough to stomp over everything.
User avatar #89 to #12 - godofsteak (10/15/2013) [-]
buff your pokemon - use moves that increases defense/special defense and it will take 2 or more turns to destroy substitue. it works well leftovers item, the skills: leech seed, toxic, baton pass, healing skills, and sleep/hypnosis effects.

User avatar #21 to #12 - meganinja (10/15/2013) [-]
Throw down substitute, enemy uses hyper beam, only does substitute's hp. Enemy just wasted hyper beam.
User avatar #18 to #12 - mutzaki (10/15/2013) [-]
Substitute takes a quarter of the user's health, and that's how much health the substitute has. A highly defensive Pokémon with a lot of health will end up having longer lasting substitutes.
It's only useful for competitive battling if you know how to use it.
#16 to #12 - adamks (10/15/2013) [-]
It helps in the way that if you put down a substitute, it takes 25% of your health. If then the opponent switches on that turn, you then have freedom to do whatever you want, or if the opponent fires a move on you that would do a 100% to you, it can only do 25, because the substitute is there.
#11 to #10 - anon (10/15/2013) [-]
or shuckle
User avatar #35 to #11 - thesinful (10/15/2013) [-]
Shuckle has terrible health. Try Blissey
User avatar #56 to #35 - arkensas (10/15/2013) [-]
Blissey has **** defense. Even EV trained it only gets like upper reaches of 100 at level 100. 600+ HP, sure but **** defense. I would know I run a team of 5 differently EV trained Blisseys for ****** and giggles called the Beastlys.

I also have my shiny Arcanine on that team cause he's my favorite pokemon in the world.
User avatar #64 to #56 - thesinful (10/15/2013) [-]
True but it's a good special wall. Chansey has better defenses if you give it Eviolite but of course then you can't give it leftovers. Then again, I've only used Shuckle for an in-game team and never used Chansey or Blissey period. To be honest, don't think I've used many walls at all. Tanks sure, but not walls.
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