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thi. Nrtvqt*
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mama
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hitting '

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Views: 74795 Submitted: 05/09/2017

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This DM is Hardcore as Fuck

"...... try that again.."

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asd

#2 - justtocomment

Reply +404 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

"You flap your arms with spectacular timing - even birds could learn from your form. That is, any birds between you and the ground because you still fall to your death, flapping magnificently the entire way down."

#140 to #2 - ompalomper

Reply +20 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

"By what can only be ascribed to he intervention of a particularly benevolent god your shield and weapon catch a particularly strong gust of wind. This combined with your majestic flapping is enough to push you onto the path again. The God also decrees that you pass me the last snickers"

#43 to #2 - anonusedhug

Reply +33 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

you don't have a lot of freinds that stay for dnd do you

#51 to #43 - justtocomment

Reply +69 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I actually have plenty. Because they accept mortality as part of the game and find a level of immersion by playing it without "hurr durr I fart the bad guy to death, cuz a 20!!"

#54 to #51 - anonusedhug

Reply -11 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

this isn't the same if you put a ******* tarrasque in front of your players in a level one fresh start campaign of course they don't do **** because they can't if you just up and kill a player because "**** you I'm dm" don't expect realistic struggles to survive and as a final point a twenty roll is a rare chance occurrence not some pile of item tokens to denote "the game has no rules I win"

#57 to #54 - justtocomment

Reply +11 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

1) Nothing indicates this is a low level starter campagin.
2) A mountain the players opted to climb is not equivalent to a "**** you this is your first monster now die".
3) The player got a saving throw and failed. It wasn't "**** you I'm DM".
4) A 20 is literally just as likely as any other number on the die. Had he rolled it for his saving throw, then there's merit for greatness. But he failed the saving throw. He lost.

#89 to #57 - magiclizard

Reply +27 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I mean, a DM giving you a single "Save or Die" throw out of the blue is garbage DMing.

You literally cannot argue this.

"Ha ha, roll to save, probably at some kind of penalty since you're a bulky **** in heavy armor, if you fail, insta-die."

#139 to #89 - anon id: 5e9b19d6

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

if anything, in my opinion, he shouldve been blasted to the edge of the cliff, and then one of his teammates could do a saving throw to quickly grab his hand and pull him back on?

or would that be more insane then flapping like a bird?

#116 to #89 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

They opted to go on the mountain. You go into a high-stakes area, you deal with high-stakes encounters.

#144 to #116 - tenychou

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

yeah, maybe the DM is a railroad ****, and they did not have a choice.
Still, save or die against the environment is lame, you should just warn the player before that his chances of survival are really slim, because the PC probably knows this even if the player is oblivious.

#137 to #116 - anon id: c8a50698

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Kinda, yeah, but we are missing context of what happened before that.

When we were once met with the option to either fight our way through several villages taken over by the living dead or crossing a mountain, we chose the mountain. We agreed with the DM to a) take the crest slowly and carefully (we were in no rush) and b) that we would tie us together with rope.

Therefore, we only made rolls when we were passing extremely tough passages. On one occassion, it was actually our ranger who would have slipped but because our paladin had announced that he watches closely, he easily pulled him back up.

We still fell to our death when several members slipped, tho.

#94 to #89 - azumeow

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

tfw the DM was going to have him fall into a small lake he could slowly walk out of after taking about 3 turns of drowning damage....

#98 to #94 - magiclizard

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Why would he take drowning damage.

DnD breathing rules are like, your modifier in minutes + 1 to breath holding.

And anyone in heavy plate should have a BIG con modifier.

#108 to #98 - azumeow

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

....because apparently my DM's made up the rules for drowning damage...

#147 to #108 - magiclizard

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

RIP

#111 to #89 - xdavenger

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

wow ... by your snowflake logic DnD should never have been a game to begin with and never get past the first edition.

Where poison of any kind was "save or die".

0 HP ment death, none of this idiot ******** about going into negative hitpoints and getting a million saving throws to not die even as you get choped to bits.

And things like the Tomb of Horros existed.

I wonder how we survived and had fun with that. I wonder how DnD ever took off and became popular and played with those rules. Popular enough to warant a second edition. And a third. And 3.5. And branching out into a lot of other system based on the d20 model.

I swear kids these days only care about snowflake munchkin characters that never fail and reality itself breaks because you rolled a 20 and confirmed it. Yeah no.

#124 to #111 - dopeydoo

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

*pssst* if it was fun it would have stayed in the game

#130 to #124 - xdavenger

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

you do know fun is a subjective concept right?

By the logic of your own argument, if it was not fun as people seem to imply people would not have played it. People would not have turned tomb of horrors into such a meme if they did not derive enjoyment from beating it.

It was not a question of fun. It was a question of accesibility. Of reducing game difficuty and giving players more and more free passes in hopes of atracting wider appeal. Which I don't have a problem with in this case, I can house rule to my heart's content, but I do have a problem with new people coming here and telling me "this is not fun, I know what DnD should truly be" when they haven't even heard of DnD and were probably not even born when it started. People so adverse to any difficulty and risk they bawl and cry when their special snowflake characters die.

The "it's not fun" argument is not an argument to quote another meme. And it wasn't fun that drove the exclusion of these systems and creating all those safety nets that make sure players have to roll an ungodly amounts of fail in a row to die and the creation of the RPGA where DMs are specificaly told "Do not kill players". It was accesibility and dumbing down in the name of wider market appeal.

#131 to #130 - dopeydoo

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

when I said fun, I meant fun for most people. Obviously some players found it fun, my point is that the majority of people obviously did not, or it would have been continued in later editions of the game. Plus, I didn't even mean "not fun" as "this sucked", I meant "not fun" as "not as good as it could / should have been".

Your logic about turning the game into a meme doesn't make much sense either. You can still like a game if a few aspects of it aren't great, and a game can be both popular and in need of improvement. And, if you really like that way of playing, you can always play like that, nobody's stopping you, but you shouldn't try to stop others from playing the way they want either. DnD rules are guidelines, nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you follow them

#133 to #131 - xdavenger

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I'm not trying to stop them from playing anything. I'm pointing out that saying "this is dumb as ****, you hate fun, nat20 means I break reality" is stupid, not factualy based in the rules of the system and them beeing sore defensive loosers to afraid of loosing a character who want to make their way to play the norm. To quote >>#89 "I mean a DM giving a single Save or Die throw out of the blue is garbage DMing". Yeah no, it's not. Opinion presented as fact.

And again: "the majority did not find them funy" ... hilarious realy. If that was the case why did they play it? It's circular logic mate, we can go at this for ages without reaching an actual logical conclusion. Besides if you know anything about the release history of DnD, you know that the old fanbase always complained when all these free-passes were added to make the game super-easy, even as a new fanbase was atracted to replace them and was wider due to ... well duh beeing an easier more accesible game overall. It's far more logical to see these changes as atempts to draw in more players than actualy trying to please their fanbase. and as >>#127 points out rightly: if those rules were as hated as you say, there would not be a market for them. And one that is quite large if not mainstream due to marketing limitations.

#146 to #133 - magiclizard

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

After reading many of your long-winded comments, I can conclude you are the robot pounding in the no-fun allowed sign.

You know how many people play first edition DnD? not a whole ******* lot, the game evolved into editions like 3.5 and 5e, because at some point **** like "Save or Die, no other option" becomes boring as **** and you get invested in characters. DnD is a high fantasy game no matter how much wizards wants to dilute that fact, not a gritty ******* reality simulator.

You know what players do going into tomb of horrors? They ******* EXPECT to die. Not on some ****** mountainside where a low-to-ground dwarf in heavy plate shouldn't even be touched by the god damn wind.

If you can't reliably play one character and get invested in the role-play, it stops being worth it very ******* quickly.

If that DM had just shoved the dwarf off the cliff, which sounds like a pretty ******* guaranteed death considering, he probably would've ****** right off from that table because it's not fun.

TL;DR you have no ******* idea what fun is, and should never never never sit down and DM anything

#148 to #146 - xdavenger

Reply -3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

oh look, prove my points exactly about defining subective concepts and claiming only you hold the true interpretation of things.

Grow up you entitled little child. Instead of pretending people are trying to ruin your "fun" when it's a jackass self-awareness lacking retard like you telling everyone who disagrees they are wrong and don't know what fun is and that they should never play or DM.

#149 to #148 - magiclizard

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Yes, continue to prove you're a ******* as well.

You talk about the deep past of DnD and expect it to hold true to todays values.

There are times for meat-grinders and people will set up specifically for those. Most do not go in for super-grit and while they expect to die at any given time dependant on their actions, they do NOT expect to die to a random ******* whim from a newly minted asshole on one end of the table.

You see DMs like matt mercer telling his crew "Roll STR to stop these massive boulders from killing you, the mountain just came alive"

If we could seperate tabletop gaming into decent people and trash, you would be the latter.

The example in the content is clearly not ******* tomb of horrors, it's not a ******* meatgrinder-type campaign.

Again, please never DM, I do not wish that fate upon anyone who enjoys tabletop.

#231 to #133 - dopeydoo

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/18/2017) [-]

reading comprehension...

>> I'm pointing out that saying "this is dumb as ****, you hate fun, nat20 means I break reality" is stupid, not factualy based in the rules of the system and them beeing sore defensive loosers to afraid of loosing a character who want to make their way to play the norm.

followed by

>>I mean a DM giving a single Save or Die throw out of the blue is garbage DMing". Yeah no, it's not. Opinion presented as fact.

yours is also an opinion presented as fact.

>>If that was the case why did they play it?

refer to my comment, "I didn't even mean "not fun" as "this sucked", I meant "not fun" as "not as good as it could / should have been" AND "You can still like a game if a few aspects of it aren't great, and a game can be both popular and in need of improvement."

>>you know that the old fanbase always complained when all these free-passes were added to make the game super-easy, even as a new fanbase was atracted to replace them and was wider due to ... well duh beeing an easier more accesible game overall.

Exactly my point. A.) people ALWAYS, literaly ALWAYS, complain when something they like gets changed, whether or not the changes are good, bad, or completely neutral and unimportant. see: The entire history of Youtube format, Facebook format, most video games... and B.) if a niche group of players found it fun, the "core fanbase" in your eyes, but other people, who would have been interested in the game otherwise, did not which we know is the case, you said it yourself then I'm right; the majority of people did not find it fun, and changing it made it fun for more people.

>>If those rules were as hated as you say, there would not be a market for them.

Not even close to true, as again, refer to my comment: "I didn't even mean "not fun" as "this sucked", I meant "not fun" as "not as good as it could / should have been" I know I'm posting that quote twice again, some players obviously found them fun, and those players would want to keep playing them, but that doesn't make them good rules. If those rules were as good and right as you say, there would not NEED to be a market for them, they would be in the core game still.

#127 to #124 - siveon

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Considering the fact that there's many rule books that try to emulate pre 3.5 D&D, or at the very least try to go for old-school death, I don't think fun has anything to do with that sort of rule.

Just boggles down to preference.

#66 to #57 - anon id: 411cef2a

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

But he didn't just roll a twenty. He rolled 2 twenties in a row. That's a 1 in 400 chance.

#75 to #66 - justtocomment

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

So if he rolled a 7 twice, would that deserve magic flight? Same odds.
And he performs a 1 in 400 flap of his arms. But not even 1 in 4000000000 flaps makes a dwarf fly. So it's a moot point.

#88 to #75 - yologdog

Reply +14 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Two 20's in a row merits some kind of survival option.

"Your adrenaline fueled flapping moves you closer to the cliffside mid fall. Now is the pefect chance to attempt a grapple."

"Your mindless flapping causes you to hit the snowy ground in such a way that you roll on your side and flip slightly into the air, spreading the impact of your fall. You survive, but your left arm, left leg, and bottom left three ribs are all broken along with dented armor following the impact regions."

"Your silly flapping is inadvertently the mating dance of the deadly, and long thought extinct, ice pheonix. The bird, angry that you are not another of its species, catches you in its talons and begins to fly back to its nest with intentions of eating you."

"Your flapping does nothing, however a particular strong gust of wind catches your back and pushes you against the cliff side, making it easy to grapple onto."

"Your flapping causes you to do a flip in the air before you die. Bards sing of this feat for generations, forever immortalizing you as "The Delirious Dwarven Flipping Faggot".

"Your idiocy does nothing, but by chance you hit a very soft patch of snow. Roll for light damage.

"The cliffside curves like a ramp, intersecting flawlessly with the ground. It saves your life but the tumbling causes damage."

"Spiderman catches you in a web. You look to him, confused, he replies 'everybody gets one' before swinging back to Manhattan"

"A passing Wizard is entertained by your stuggle and uses one of his own emergency scrolls to slow your decent to the ground. You land with no more forcne than you would have had you fallen only two feet. The Wizard is now demanding monetary compensation for his service."

"You hit the ground and awake from a daydream. Your daydreams seem to be getting more and more vivid lately, and also more and more about your own graphic death. You find yourself trailing behind the group a little..."

#90 to #88 - hsdfngdslmcg

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

That's actually very well done

#93 to #88 - azumeow

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

This is all smarter than flapping your ******* arms really hard though, so...

#121 to #88 - justtocomment

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Had he rolled those 20s on his saving throw, you'd be right.
But he didn't.
He rolled them on a skill he doesn't have (flying).

#151 to #121 - yologdog

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I mean yeah. I don't shy away from killing characters, but when people roll two Nat 20's in a row on something I usually throw them some kind of miracle, or else the player start getting annoyed at their helplessness.

#99 to #75 - magiclizard

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I mean, if that dwarf is flapping his arms at speeds to break the sound barrier, he'll fly.

#67 to #57 - anonusedhug

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

1.)equivalent example
2.) one bad roll? fall to the bottom of the cliff
3.)a saving throw against the terrain that is necessary to cross for the story
4)its chance he can't just pull a "**** the dm i'm god now" out of his ass

#85 to #2 - greyhoundfd

Reply +33 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

"You vigorously flap your arms, looking like a complete idiot, but as luck would have it a stray tree branch sticking from the snow is in the way of your idiotic showcase, and your armor catches on it, saving you from death."

#118 to #85 - justtocomment

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Luck isn't a saving skill though.
If the DM is forgiving, he can put that branch there - but it would have nothing to do with the roll.

#169 to #118 - captainprincess

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

that depends on the dm though

they could, for instance, decide that if youre lucky enough to get a nat 20, youre lucky enough for there to be a branch

#198 to #169 - greyhoundfd

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

>>#118
Alternatively, you could also not be a ****** DM and force your characters to reroll because they ****** up a single strength check or whatever it was this DM made them roll. If your PCs can come up with a reasonable explanation as to how they might survive, and they roll dice to match, give them that out.

#219 to #198 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

It was a saving ******* roll. Which means he ****** up enough times that this was his last chance.
Does anyone here actually ******* play D&D or do they just read greentexts and guess the rest?

#220 to #219 - greyhoundfd

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

You literally have no idea how the game progressed. The indication from the comment is that he ****** up one saving roll and then got 20s on the next two.

#225 to #220 - captainprincess

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

Neither do you
Except for the clue that the DM let the guy be a magical flying dwarf

idk about your assumption logic but mine says that means this was a campaign where **** was let slide often

#221 to #220 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

And you literally have no idea how the mechanics of the game works.
He failed a saving throw.
Which means he failed enough skill checks to get to the point that a saving throw was necessary.
So at an absolute bare minimum he failed at least one skill roll (likely more, depending on his HP at the start) before the saving throw, which he also failed.

#222 to #221 - greyhoundfd

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

I just checked and it it wasn't even a ******* saving throw you goddamn retard. It was one skill check. Which the dwarf failed.

#178 to #169 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Unless it's a homebrew, you can't roll against luck as a stat.

#189 to #178 - mrbuu

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

nobody rolls luck. and every ******* DND game if not a tourney is homebrew. try to play dnd by following the rules 100% of the time. you wil hit a point that the rules say "user rule 0 DM fiat" basicly saying its up to the DM at that point. heck by DND rules alone you can not see nor locate the sun nor stars ever as the DC on perception to see them is a few billion on the sun and about a septquadrillion DC. because size caps out ,but distance keeps adding to the DC

#192 to #189 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Failing a saving throw is not a "ask the DM" situation.

#28 to #2 - lazysans

Reply +49 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

id reduce the damage

best of both worlds

#42 to #28 - anonusedhug

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

better yet slightly higher damage from strain in heavy plate and let him not fall miles down a cliff with no way to get back up

#6 to #2 - Maroon

Reply +91 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Exactly, thank you. I hate it when players think rolling a 20 gives them a get out of jail free card for literally anything.

#9 to #6 - justtocomment

Reply +51 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Not sure why you got thumbed down. You're right.
Natural 20 =/= **** the rules I win.
When you roll to do something in D&D, you're rolling to measure your stats against something else's stats. You can lose on a Natural 20 if you're trying to achieve something your character is not skilled in.

#29 to #9 - nolifeguide

Reply +14 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Personally, in the games I DM, I let them nat 20 skill rolls. They don't always do incredible things, but for moments of comedy like this I am more than happy to let them get away with this sort of stuff. You've gotta balance the serious and the silly; this is a good way to give the players something to laugh about and remember without breaking your game.

#35 to #29 - manter

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Yeah. I have a guy who is playing a gargoyle, and there was a time where the party was split up. (There were lots of enemies, they panicked and ran in different directions.) He knew bugbears were following him, and before he got ready for a fight he rolled to pretend to be a bugbear.

Nat 20.

The bugbears round the corner and are convinced he is their leader. They still follow his orders to this day.
They don't normally do anything. It's just funny since the guy has accidentally started and army/cult since then.

#56 to #9 - phoenixforger

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

As a GM, I have a rule. No matter what you're trying to do, if I allow you to roll for it, then there is a chance for success. That's the point of dice. So, for me a nat 20 is always a success. If you won't succeed, even on a nat 20, then I will just not let you roll.

Besides, DnD is a game of stories. What makes a better story:
A) My dwarf fell of a cliff. I tried flapping my arms like a bird, and I rolled 2(!) Natural 20s. The GM still said no, cuz he's a hard ass. Jerk.
OR
B) My dwarf fell of a cliff. I tried flapping my arms like a bird, and I rolled 2(!) Natural 20s. And it worked! My dwarf in heavy armor flew through wilpower alone.

I know which one I like better. If the GM in the post just wasn't gonna let the dwarf succeed (which is a fine choice) then he shouldn't have allowed a roll.

#73 to #56 - justtocomment

Reply -3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

The first one is better story. Because it has risk and consequences. If I wanted a game where I'm not allowed to die, I'd play an RPG video game.
I know the DM allowed it. My point is I disagree with allowing it.

#74 to #73 - phoenixforger

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

There is no risk if you literally can't win. If it's predetermined, then its not a game.

#78 to #74 - justtocomment

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Do you even play D&D? Do you know what a saving throw is?
He rolled against his skills to survive and he failed. He had the chance to win and he lost. That's how the game works. The rest of the party survived (win) - so there's a way to win, he just didn't.
If the DM said "there are elite archers ahead" and you go ahead, you don't get to cry insta-death when you get sniped because you failed a saving throw.

#112 to #78 - anon id: c6843c80

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

What you're forgetting is that the DM told the player to roll the dice AFTER the player told the DM That he was going to flap his arms really hard.
In your case it would have been better to just not offer the player a roll at all.
In the Post's case if you offer a roll, you better give the player some leniency after he rolls 2* 20.

#122 to #112 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Comment* not comic.

#117 to #112 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

And the point of my comic is to say how much I disagree with the original DM's response.

#123 to #117 - anon id: c6843c80

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

That's fair. He shouldn't have given the player the chance to roll like that.

#180 to #78 - phoenixforger

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Wow, man. I GM games all the time, and have been playing different rpgs for about 5 years now. If you've never encountered a GM making a house rule on the spot, then I think your experience should be questioned. It happens all the time in normal DnD. Most likely the roll in question was a strength check of some sort.

The GM could've said "You plummet off the cliff, and die." simple.
Instead he said "You plummet off the cliff, WHAT DO YOU DO?"

He clearly allowed the character to take an action. Then the player stated his action (flap his arms like a madman). Then the GM told him to roll. The player rolled the best possible result. The GM had him roll again, that being a way to achieve a potentially better result. Another 20. It works! And why not? It's their game. If they're having fun, who cares? If he had failed, he would have fallen to his death, flapping his arms like a jackass. That seems like sufficient risk.

Aside from that, there are many different schools of Game Mastery. Some prefer fast and loose, letting cool trump rules. Others prefer by-the-book, rules intensive games. Both have merit, both can be lots of fun. I have mastered and played in games of both kinds, and all kinds in between. These games we play are social, imaginative, intellectual, challenging, and complex. Don't try to nail it down too much.

#184 to #180 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

If you DM, the should know that failing a saving throw isn't a predetermined loss. It's a series of losses leading up to the point that you have to roll to save yourself.
To call it predetermined is to be the player that ragequits because their character died. To be a DM and call it the same is something else entirely.

#190 to #184 - phoenixforger

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

You're being incredibly dense. He didn't fail the roll to flap his arms and fly. He evidently succeeded. The saving throw against falling off the cliff was... a saving throw to not fall off the cliff. He failed that, fell, then successfully flew back up. The GM didn't have to let him take an action while falling, or allow him a chance to roll for it, but the GM allowed these things and it worked.

#191 to #190 - justtocomment

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Allow me to reiterate for the dozenth time:
I disagree with the DM giving him the extra action after failing the throw. It means that whatever the failed roll was, it was not a saving throw.
And my point exactly: he rolled 20 on flapping his arms. And he did an amazing job of it. But it doesn't make a dwarf fly.

#195 to #191 - phoenixforger

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Why shouldn't he get an action while falling? What if he chose to throw a grappling hook? Or stab daggers into the side of the mountain? Maybe use a magic scroll? You can do things while falling, that's why the player got an action.

The saving throw he failed was against falling OFF the cliff, nothing else. Were I the GM, I'd totally give the player an action while falling.

Maybe allowing a roll for flight wasn't the best answer, but once its allowed, the GM should stick with it.

Besides, there are plenty of fun ways to make this make sense in the game later on.
-Maybe the god of flightless birds took pity on this dwarf and saved him, and this was like a prayer/piety check.
-Or this was a luck check, and the a updraft of wind blew the dwarf back up onto the cliff. Perhaps the wind was caused by a sleepy dragon's snores down by the base of the mount.
-Maybe the dwarf has latent psychic powers that he can learn to unlock later on by multi-classing. Most systems say that you have a 1% chance of that. He got 2 natural twenties, 0.25%, so that would be good.

Any number of things to do with this if you're clever.

#128 to #73 - dopeydoo

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(05/10/2017) [-]

how was he "not allowed" to die? He had a 1/400 chance of getting two nat20s, and it looks to me like the DM was just so impressed with the luck he said **** it. I agree with phoenixforger, reread the post:

DM: ...what do you do?

Dwarf: I flap my arms really hard

DM: Seriously?

Dwarf: Not like I got any better options

DM: Ok roll for it

See, if you're doing a way more realistic campaign where that dwarf is ******* deadso, the conversations goes

DM: ...what do you do?

Dwarf: I flap my arms really hard

DM: Seriously?

Dwarf: Not like I got any better options

DM: Ok... I mean you're a dwarf in heavy armor... but you do the best bird impression of your life on the way down

Dwarf: They will remember me as the first bird-dwarf hybrid

Or something to that effect. The player didn't just EXPECT his rolls to break reality, the DM allowed him to roll, which means there must be a chance that his actions can do something. Should that something by magically just flying up? No, but that's the DM's fault for not being creative, >>#88 has tons of ideas where that dwarf lives without just "rocks fall everybody dies" but in reverse, "dwarf flaps everybody flies" My mom says I'm funny...

If you tell your player to roll, then there has to be a point to the roll. Why have him roll at all if you're gonna kill him regardless?

#129 to #128 - justtocomment

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(05/10/2017) [-]

"I know the DM allowed it. My point is I disagree with allowing it."

#44 to #9 - lazysans

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(05/10/2017) [-]

true.

now since some people want to make things interesting by bending the rules, have him roll twice. 2 nat 20s means it happens. adds to the experience, no?

#38 to #9 - anon id: 5904593c

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

lets take this already ago old game, ******* boring rules, just imgaination and stats. and not bother allowing spectacular event in the name of sheer luck. because why make anything fun.

#53 to #38 - justtocomment

Reply +3 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

You don't get to ******* fly because of luck.
You can survive the fall - reach for a ledge, hell go ahead and use your beard as a lasso for all I care. But try and imagine something other than "I rolled perfectly so I can't die, despite failing the saving roll".
There are rules. Characters can, and will, die. If you don't like those rules, go play a different ******* game - you don't go to a soccer field and say "what's all this nonsense about staying in bounds? That's such an old rule for an old game".

#186 to #53 - ktkthegreat

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(05/10/2017) [-]

You get to fly if the DM says you get to fly. I agree it's not a good way to deal with this situation but the rules are what the DM says they are.

#194 to #186 - justtocomment

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(05/10/2017) [-]

The rules are what the rule book says they are. And flight is covered by the rules.
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fly
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Flight
It's an actual ability you put points into. It's got tiers and modifiers.
Even if this dwarf spontaneously developed the ability, he would have no maneuverability and only be able to carry a minimum load (no heavy armor). This is like having a halfling rogue roll a 20 and suddenly be able to run at full-sprint in massive plate armor - it's a 20 modifier for a skill with a less-than-0 value.

#197 to #194 - ktkthegreat

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(05/10/2017) [-]

I'd like to add that if the DM decided he should die, that would've been fine too.
I'd understand it if the player got kinda pissed though.

#196 to #194 - ktkthegreat

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Even so. What the DM says, goes.
I agree that the dwarf could've paid for his failed save with some hit points. But I also think that since the DM allowed him to roll when he tried to get out of his predicament, rolling 20 would save him from certain death. No matter how that was achieved.
Flying is of course pretty absurd, but to each their own.

#22 to #6 - heartlessrobot

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Right but what DM decides to just instakill a player with something unavoidable?
The **** kind.

#30 to #22 - xdavenger

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(05/09/2017) [-]

Oh? did the DM do that?

Last time I read the post he told them to roll saves against the wind. Something they should have expected in a high mountain pass and could have taken steps to avoid. Like tying each-other with rope so if one falls the rest can pull him back up.

This was no instakill DM ********.

#46 to #30 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

players don't do that when the dm is **** if they tied themselves together all of them would die if they prepared the clock o' doom quest would expire fact is its a **** trap in a railroad hell

#106 to #46 - xdavenger

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(05/10/2017) [-]

first off: punctuation. use it for the love of common understanding.

Second: you literaly have no evidence for your claims other than automaticaly asuming the DM is ****. Asumptions which not only is stupid, but baseless considering from what is explained above he both gave them saving throws, when the dwarf fell he didn't go "you fall and die", he asked the player "do you try to do anything?" and when the player rolled a nat 20 (which contrary to what **** players think DOES NOT let you do impossible things. DnD actualy has this enshrined as a rule, you need to roll 7 20s in a row to break the laws of reality), he let the dwarf live. So yeah, you're seekng to blame the DM for players beeing unpreapared, because players are aparently holy and can do no wrong and DMs are always universaly evil. Like the poster I responded to, you're full of all kinds of **** and are probably the cry-baby players that complains whenever things don't go his way and blames the DM and not their own stupidity and ego-trip.

#125 to #106 - dopeydoo

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Well, you're both kind of right and kind of wrong at this point.

While it's fair that some people like to play with the magic nat20 ****, and so that doesn't automatically mean **** DM, that could just be how it's played with them, you also have to take into account that there are way better ways of handling that situation (>>#88) than just saying "yeah **** it you flap your arms and fly up." Allowing him to live because of a good roll isn't the sign of a **** DM, BUT I'd argue that the fact that he just went with flappy dwarf means you can assume an inexperienced DM.

That being said, I think having a dwarf (with a dense body and low center of gravity, along with likely very high strength) wearing heavy plate armor (basically a ******* anchor at this point) make saving throws against wind, no matter how high up in the mountain they are, is stupid and likely a bad DM choice. I mean, the way I see it, any wind that this dwarf has to save against has blown all of the other party members off the cliff already

#107 to #106 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

just listing common problems. but the greatest problem that I practically guaruntee he has is that he overdevelops worlds. the player in the end is supposed to have fun and nothing is worse than a puzzle seeming impossible because simple precautions to the dm aren't even things the player considers

#110 to #107 - xdavenger

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(05/10/2017) [-]

how the hell is a rope around all of them something so hard to consider?

Christ I must be som genius player whenever I touch these games because I cary basic multifunctional tools with me like ropes, different sized bags, lamp oil, various knives and tool-kits, some climbing spikes, caltrops, nails, powdered glass (ok not multifunctional, just realy handy in a fight agaisnt anything with eyes. Beholders love this). Ok maybe I don't cary all of that myself, but that what the party's high strenght meathead is for.

And is a mountainpass with high winds realy overdeveloped?

I'd add at least a few other traps on top of that, an ambush of mountain trolls oh and an avalanche.

Well ok ... I'd do that if I wanted to be an asshole and see the party die.

There's a difference between "just wanting to have fun" and "there is nothing than can phase me and I always win". My phylosophy as a DM and player is that winning and having fun with the game is impossible without effort and risk. Which is why I generaly don't do comedy games and take **** at least semi-serious at all times. If all you want is to run around aimlessly, barge down the front door with nothing but the armor on you and a weapon and expect to win ... you're going to have a bad time.

If you call this imossible puzzle, let me introduce you to something for perspective: You need to login to view this link

Some of those I'm preety sure qualify as crimes against humanity if you make your players go through them. Some are preety fun though. Depends on implementation and decent signposting.

And shove it with the asumptions about the DM. You have no evidecen to "practicaly guarantee" anything. You're sounding more and more like a munchkin asshole who thinks he should get away with anything because "we're just supposed to have fun".

#114 to #110 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

one more note thanks for bringing me the list lost it a while ago and forgot some of my favourites

#113 to #110 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

I will concede that my words are without merit and without further information are meaningless but the point still stands that you have to ease players into situations not just drop them headfirst into the traphall with no idea how anything works. the only point I was trying to make is that having a trap makes it fun but not when the game becomes "guess what i'm thinking" also yeah you carry a metric ******* more **** than most of my parties because an encounter isn't really fair if it can't be won with a combination of adequately leveled power, brute strength, knowing what to expect, and using the environment itself. this is why I always hate the pocket hole because it almost always (for me anyways) turns into "open the portal to my kill realm"

#132 to #46 - blackmageewizardt

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(05/10/2017) [-]

because explaining to your dm the mere function of why you tied all the Party members on a Long as rope so he doesn´t get confused is not Basic 101 communication skills.

#59 to #6 - darddec

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(05/10/2017) [-]

It's an easy way to tell if they've never actually played the game. COUGHdorklyCOUGH

It's like those made up stories people make about Pokemon GO where they believe Pokemon are in impossibly specific spots (under a log, for example) instead of being a "x feet within y area" type of thing. COUGHdorklyagainCOUGH

#18 to #6 - istarion

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(05/09/2017) [-]

In this case it seems to me that the dwarf player gave up and did not expect to survive even with a 20. We of course don't know all the background information but it seems like this was a decision of the DM, not something the player demanded.

#16 to #6 - ZetsuYang

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(05/09/2017) [-]

Agreed only thing that nat 20s really effect is attack rolls, even then is with some exceptions like a character with a non magic weapon rolling a nat 20 on a ghost isnt gonna do ****

#47 to #6 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

it doesn't you say this like players roll expecting to get twenties but they don't they just give what ever they can think of a shot and expect failure

#81 to #47 - Maroon

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(05/10/2017) [-]

No, but I constantly have players who go "Can I roll to [some stupid illogical shit that I'd never allow them to get away with]" and then roll without waiting for a response. They luck out and stumble upon a nat 20 and get butthurt when I tell them that no, I won't bend rules of space and time and throw basic logic out the window because of their roll.

For example, through various means one party torched half a town and murdered several prominent townspeople. I sent an angry mob accompanied by a dozen guards after them. Party face decides he's going to "talk them down" and just rolls a charisma check without any actual role-play or prompt from me. Of course the faggot lucks into a nat 20 and now thinks I'm just going to disperse a whole angry mob that wants to murder them and dozen guards sent to arrest them.

I told him that his great personality has swayed a few key leaders of the mob enough to give them pause so he has a chance to speak. The cunt gets mad that his 20 didn't just magically make the problem go away and starts bitching to me about how I'm a bad DM and I'm trying to ruin everybody's fun and I need to model my campaign to my players because apparently I only exist as a DM to enable him to live vicariously through his sociopathic self-insert character.

As they spent 10 minutes trying to talk their way out the problem with me out of character instead of even attempting to talk to the mob, I told them all of their characters were lynched and hung for their crimes.

Remember, DM's aren't magic campaign vending machines that you can just punch and kick until what you want comes tumbling out. I put a lot of time creating the worlds for my campaign, time coming up with characters and motives, time coming up with story progression trees, time editing those story progressions when the party inevitably does some unexpected ****, etc. Just making encounter maps alone takes hours. One map I made took me 6 hours alone and the cretins complained during the whole dungeon because they just walked around killing things without investigating any of the carvings and symbols I expressly brought up a thousand times in room descriptions so they got stuck. Enemy creation is another huge time sink. It takes hours to set up encounters with enemies that are diverse enough not to get repetitive and hard enough to provide a challenge but probably won't kill the party. All told, in the week between sessions I'll probably spend at least an entire day getting the next meeting ready only TO HAVE SOME CUNT TELL ME I'M A BAD DM BECAUSE I DIDN'T LET HIM GET AWAY WITH DESTROYING A TOWN AND MURDERING INNOCENTS BECAUSE HE ROLLED A ******* 20.

#82 to #81 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

damn sorry you have such a ****** pile of snowflake hero munchkins to lead through the land

#83 to #82 - Maroon

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(05/10/2017) [-]

I don't deal with that group anymore. When I told them they were all dead and needed to make new characters and hopefully learn something from their colossal **** up, they all went full autism on me about how I need to make sure they're having fun because that's what's important. I told them tard wrangling isn't my job and I'm not going to perform the DM equivalent of running around behind them making sure their asses are wiped and they're not running with scissors. Keep in mind that these were all new players with little experience with the system trying to talk down to me like they were suddenly teaching me something new. I told them make new characters or **** off and if they kept doing dumb ****, they'd have to face the consequences up to and including character death. They basically just remade their previous characters and were right back on the path to getting lynched again so I just blocked all of them because I ran out of patience.

#5 - Maroon

Reply +89 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

That's dumb as hell. Rolling a nat 20, even twice in a row, doesn't spontaneously cause miracles to happen.
If he said, "I try to grab the ledge" and got two nat 20's I'd give him an instant and easy return to the path.
All that stupid comment would earn him from me is "You plummet to your death as you've made zero effort to actually save yourself. The rest of the party is impressed by your spectacular bird imitation but question your split second decision making process. Roll a new character, dumbass."

#92 to #5 - landcucumber

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(05/10/2017) [-]

I feel in a world with spirits, gods, magic and monsters a little bending of physics is perfect acceptable.

#36 to #5 - anon id: 6b6fdb62

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Except the fact that something could or could not happen is entirely up to the DM, after all, DM has the power of "rocks fall, everybody dies" and "Cthulhu in power armor comes across the hill, roll initiative"

#39 to #5 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

he's not a dumbass he's making it fun. if he fails then its a majestic death for the party to laugh at. if he succeeds then its a case of cleric wants you to live miracle happens. many characters that are min maxed do this because random ******** that calls upon the gods of chaos is better than -5 dex modifier because of one bad roll. this is especially true if you for some reason such as any number of ******* bandit raids don't have grappling hooks/ropes or climbing axes.its a pact with the dm an extra hard roll that gets no bonuses or decrements from stats.also if you would say that to a player you're a bit of a dick and I'm surprised people return to your campaigns.

#86 to #5 - godisbert

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Nobody is pointing a gun to your head and saying "PLAY LIKE THIS", we're just saying it's fun. I do enjoy more serious, grounded campaigns, but silly ones based around absurdist actions like this make for great laughs, and good improv exercises too.

#87 to #86 - drazilodomok

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(05/10/2017) [-]

i think there is two ways of playing. serious and life-like, or random and absurd. both are fun, but one isn't necessarily acceptable in the other. it is based off of the DM you want to be/play with. if you don't like a DM's style find a new place to play. though this is coming from someone never playing before, so whatever.

#136 to #5 - figuretivelyican

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(05/10/2017) [-]

"A PLAYSTYLE DIFFERENT FROM MINE? ******* UNACCEPTABLE"

#158 to #5 - captainprincess

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(05/10/2017) [-]

yes it does
idc how grand and spectacular your world or story is

2 nat 20's in a row is literally a dnd miracle and the gods themselves will descend from on high to help you complete whatever action has been blessed with such rolls

#203 to #158 - schneidend

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Meh. Not how I'd run it in this scenario. As many others have suggested, a miraculous grabbing of a branch(es) or other narrow avoidance of certain death, or rescue by a magical creature or ally would be much better in most campaigns.

#224 to #203 - captainprincess

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(05/11/2017) [-]

I mean IM in a campaign where Im a rack of psychic sausages

so from my perspective the flying dwarf is perfect

#160 to #158 - Maroon

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Well, you're not only wrong, you're stupid. There's a one in 400 chance of getting 2 20's in a row. Depending on how long a session and how heavily players rely on dice over role-playing, there's a good chance of getting it once per session and it's pretty much guaranteed over 2-3 sessions. 1/400 chance of something is not worthy of a deus ex machina.

#161 to #160 - captainprincess

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(05/10/2017) [-]

You're no DM
You're a ****** bore

#7 to #5 - karroll [OP]

Reply +55 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

#8 to #7 - Maroon

Reply +19 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

It isn't fun, it's retarded. If you just want to roll a die and get away with anything, logic be damned, then sit alone at home and roll a d20 over and over again and celebrate whenever it lands on a 20.

#10 to #8 - lkszangs

Reply +40 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

For you tabletop rpgs may be just a game to win.
But for people that like to role play and laugh everything goes as long as it is funny.

#12 to #10 - sandwichreset

Reply +20 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Depends on the campaign to be honest. If it ain't that serious then I would say that the dwarf flies. If it is that serious then the dwarf dies. It always comes down to expectations.

#55 to #12 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

its bad dm'ing I would just excuse it somehow godly miricle strong updraft something

#95 to #55 - azumeow

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(05/10/2017) [-]

His arm catches in a split in the cave wall, you take 1d6 falling damage, make a strength saving throw to hold yourself up, you get a +5 bonus because your ******* arm is wedged in the cliff

#96 to #95 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

good idea

#97 to #96 - azumeow

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(05/10/2017) [-]

I'm not opposed to the idea of him somehow surviving through sheer luck because 2 nat 20's is pretty crazy, but I do think him just suddenly becoming ******* flappy bird is stupid.

#69 to #55 - sandwichreset

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(05/10/2017) [-]

You kill the mood/suspension of disbelief in some cases with that. Twenties aren't always god given powers and blessings. Sometimes they are the upper limit of your characters, that's just how it is.

It''s not bad DMing to know when ******** is appropriate, and when it is ********. If the monk tries to fly on two twenties, I might give it to him. If the heavy armor fighter tries it, not so much. All in all it depends on the sort of campaign you're playing, or in other words, how far have you made it appropriate to pull the suspension of disbelief. Okaying ******** can walk the entire mile around and bite it's own tail.

I the end, what works best is being clear with your players on what a twenty is and isn't in the campaign, and make it clear so that no one can fume about it later.

#72 to #69 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

yeah but its still bad dm'ing to oneshot the hero because he failed one throw.
it would be like the legend of Hercules ending in the second sentence with him tripping and breaking his neck despite demigod near immortality

#76 to #72 - sandwichreset

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(05/10/2017) [-]

Yeah, of course, killing characters should be done with care after all. But instead of a Deus Ex Machina, make a ledge or outcropping, land him unconscious or, if flair and slight DEM is okay, have the local, legendary bird monster/cloud spirit/slightly mad wizard/taunting BBEG pick him/her up and carry them off to a nest/mountaintop/secret lab/back on track in a fit of "Only I can kill you weaklings!". Or strong wind that might be blamed on godly intervention shoves them back on the mountainside again.

#77 to #76 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

that was my original comment to you although the concept of immediately following up with combat is interesting

#79 to #77 - sandwichreset

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(05/10/2017) [-]

If the players **** up, ******* up, or give them a smack on the fingers. Also its four in the morning here so I am about as stable as nitroglycerine right now and the context of what you wrote flew right by me, but it's nice talking regardless.

#80 to #79 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

and you as well sir

#19 to #10 - asugar

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(05/09/2017) [-]

**asugar used "*roll picture*"**
**asugar rolled image**That isn't role playing. It's just silly horse **** backed up by dice. Role playing would be attempting to slow himself down or stop himself with something he has on him, not throwing out "lol so random xd" crap.

#32 to #19 - lkszangs

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Magic moderfocker do you know it?
If you believe hard enough you can do anything.
Or just say that it was a ******* wind elemental helping him or some ****.

#40 to #19 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

thats the point the player has accepted death

#168 to #19 - captainprincess

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(05/10/2017) [-]

I bet you larp and argue with people over damage stats

#13 to #10 - Maroon

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(05/09/2017) [-]

Your statement is ass-backwards. If you expect rolling a nat 20 to magically solve any dilemma you're in, then you're not role-playing. At all. Thinking through the problem and coming up with your own solution is role-playing. Getting presented with a problem and going "Well, I'm gonna do some random **** that's got **** all to do with what's going on but I rolled a 20 so DM you need to magic away the consequences of my actions" is not role-playing. D&D is not "anything goes" there are rules and guidelines and things need to be somehow grounded in reality. Magically being able to fly by flapping your wings for no other reason than you rolled a die and got a number breaks immersion for the other players and turns the campaign into a joke. At that point, you don't even need a DM, you're just sitting around ************ impossible scenarios and seeing if you get a roll to justify it.

#15 to #13 - lorddread

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(05/09/2017) [-]

It isn't fun for me so it must be fun for no one. The dm doesn't know the players at his game as well as I do, and goofing around gets in the way of good structured fun.

#41 to #13 - anonusedhug

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(05/10/2017) [-]

one problem with this is that his "action" was follow a ******* quest with the rest of his party he has no real way of doing anything with plate armor holding him back he has nothing but to call to chaos and beg for mercy

#14 to #13 - Maroon

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(05/09/2017) [-]

*flapping your arms*

#120 to #8 - dopeydoo

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(05/10/2017) [-]

"I DON'T THINK IT'S FUN SO NEITHER CAN YOU"

#4 - endorphindolphin

Reply +32 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

"See you nerds on the other side of the cliff."

#31 - rollmeanddie

Reply +26 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Jesus ******* christ this 'nat 20 = impossible results' meme is the worst thing to have ever come out of /tg/. It really makes you realize 90% of /tg/ is too autistic to have ever gotten a group together for a game of D&D, and that they just make **** up.

#33 to #31 - PgFalcon

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(05/10/2017) [-]

A natural 20 means success at whatever you character is attempting. A 1 means life threatening failure. Makes for fun times.

#142 to #33 - daniboyi

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(05/10/2017) [-]

"I glare the BBEG into submission" *rolls 20*
"Well... it appears the biggest baddest evil being in the world is cowered by a simple glare from a healer-gnome. game is over I guess."

#205 to #142 - PgFalcon

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(05/10/2017) [-]

If you're willing to aceppt a 20:1 odds against you, then you obviously don't understand gambling. the 20 and the 1 are a fun based reward / punishment system. If played with a competent DM it doesn't skew the difficulty of the game, or might even make it much, much harder.

#206 to #205 - daniboyi

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(05/10/2017) [-]

again. Fun does not equal game-breaking. You can do one without needing the other.

#208 to #206 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

What you're trying to imply is that it's unbalanced. What I'm saying is that you're an idiot if you own impose unlimited reward on just the roll of a 20 without also imposing unlimited penalty on the 1.

Of course, the severe / amazing consequences only needs to take place when attempting something truely 'impossible'.

I would argue that a roll of a 1 for the 'flapping arms really hard' should result in somehow harming your companions as well.

#207 to #206 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

How is guarenteed success game breaking?

#209 to #207 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

"How is a dwarf with heavy armor that can fly by flapping his arms game-breaking?"

Are you even listening to yourself?

A fun, but believable response would be "You flapping your arms did nothing, but luckily a thick branch caught you by the armor, you are now hanging from a thick branch off a cliff."

#214 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Also, a funny way for this to work would be some silly old wizard enchanting that rock-face some thousand years ago so that if some fell off it and then attempted to fly like a bird that they would temporarily be granted said ability.

#218 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

like this.

#217 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

also comment

#216 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I can

#215 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

hey

#213 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

That just demonstrates a lack of intelligence on the DM's part, but he was correct in awarding the player with a good outcome.

#211 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

No matter the endeavor, the must always be that 'chance for success'. You can't have literally every outcome be bad.

#210 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Just because you can't understand something that you're seeing, doesn't mean it doesn't have a good explanation.

Maybe there was a sudden freak gush of wind shooting up the side of the mountain strong enough to carry a dwarf at the same exact instant that he attempted to save his own life by flapping his arms? Hurricane force winds bruh.

Do you even own an imagination?

#212 to #210 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

That is not the scenario in the content. The scenario was
>Dwarf flaps arms hard
>He rolls 20.
>He can now fly.

And I am not saying it should be impossible to save himself, but at the very least be in the realm of logic and not just some ass-pull, because you, as a DM, lack any form of imagination.

Also for heavens sake, write 1 comment, instead of splitting them constantly up in 2 seperated comments.

#226 to #212 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

Well, sometimes I have more to say on something I didn't think I'd have more to say on.

And impossible things happening are part of D&D. It's all about what you can get away with, and how willing you are to entertain. It isn't supposed to be super serious. Think of it as telling a children's story with weird rules.

#204 to #142 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Also, in that situation, I would also argue that anything less than a 20 would result in your character ******** themselves in fear, with a 1 resulting in scared to death.

#200 to #142 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

That's right boi-o

#201 to #200 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

that just seems overly silly for my taste.

Fun should be allowed, but game-breaking fun is not just stupid.

#202 to #201 - daniboyi

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

IS just stupid*

#134 to #33 - blackmageewizardt

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

cast miracle if you want a ******* miracle to Pop up.

#100 to #33 - rollmeanddie

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Succes, yes. Even great success. Stupid bs? No.

#101 to #100 - xlelez

Reply +4 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

if it was only a single nat 20, i'd agree with you, but this was a ******* double nat 20. At some point the dice gods have spoken and it's time to let **** happen and break the laws of physics!

#102 to #101 - rollmeanddie

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

One in four hundred bullets does not bounce off two walls to hit a dude in the back.

#103 to #102 - xlelez

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

No but you're playing a fantasy game for the fun of things, So... we can just say "magic".

#104 to #103 - rollmeanddie

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

No, magic is what I use to explain the giant walking city powered by the dreams and hopes of elf children.

#58 to #33 - lordfenris

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I want to jump to the moon. I'm going to keep trying till it works. In what possible situation is that sort of crap fun?

#105 to #58 - anonusedhug

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

because if you fail you majestically kill yourself and everyone laughs

#61 to #58 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Also 50 50 chance of failing so spectacularly that you die anyways.

#63 to #61 - lordfenris

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

50/50 chance that a newborn baby makes an artifact by flailing in a forge. 50/50 a legendary blacksmith spontaneously dies forging a basic sword. Real fun.

#71 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

And bosses can roll 20s too, lmao.

#70 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

The goal of a dungeons is usually much, much longer term than one lucky roll. Even if that nature 20 kills a boss you normally couldn't handle, there are always more bosses.

#68 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

And equally likely to end with workshop being destroyed and party arrested for failure to pay for damages.

#65 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

But likely a waste of a turn.

#64 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Good way to try your luck and get an extra item, yea.

#60 to #58 - PgFalcon

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

It'd be a waste of 10 turns and would result in your character dying in space.

#62 to #58 - PgFalcon

Reply -2 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

And good dms don't allow you to attempt twice what has already been failed once.

#135 to #31 - Endofzeeworld

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Well it depends. In a lot of cases any Tabletop is going to be drama-driven. It's why heroes are able to survive death causing blows and why PCs in games are often just better than NPCS, because they're heroes. In cases like these, if its a more comedic game, that same plot-armor type thing can occur if it makes sense in the genre and the drama.

It all depends on whether you're a story/character drive RPGer, or a tactical board game number cruncher RPGer. Both are equally valid ways to RPG, and they result in different things.

#34 to #31 - abignerd

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Come on you just gotta have a sense of fun, like stubborning a hole to make its stop existing, stupid but hilarious

#126 - karenoniks

Reply +20 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

The way that DM did this is fine if everyone had fun but this is how I would've done it:
"A sudden screech, your spastic arm flailing seems to have attracted a Gray Harpy, she mistakes you for a baby bird falling to it's dead. She grabs you with her claws and puts you safely back on the cliff. Roll charisma"

If succeded:
"Grey Harpy seems to be a bit upset that the thing she just saved is a dwarf, they are known here for stealing eggs for their twisted meals, but the look of relief you gave her and your friendly face calmed her down a bit. She flies away, never to be seen again"

If failed:
"The Grey Harpy recognizes you, your height, your beard, your ugliness. You're a dwarf! Dwarves here are known for plundering the nests of expecting bird mothers. You can see her eyes water, and she lunges towards you. You have to fight her."

#141 to #126 - bulwark

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Good idea... but.

I don't think you would come up with that in the span of 5 seconds like the DM probably had to.

#150 - angryeggs

Reply +8 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Please, for the love of all that is holy, someone draw this, this is ******* hilarious

#152 to #150 - kronk

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Dude if only i could, this needs to visualised

#155 to #150 - captainprincess

Reply +18 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

got u fam

#176 to #155 - angryeggs

0 123456789123345869

has deleted their comment [-]

#175 to #155 - lewdsalt

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Your an amazing person.

#177 to #175 - captainprincess

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

#156 to #155 - captainprincess

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

>>#152,

#11 - anon id: f8f51d84

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

To everyone who says he should have just fell to his death, I disagree. The wind could could whip around and slowed the fall, and gave him a few moments of a feather fall effect. THEN he continues falling to his death. Unless he keeps rolling 20s

#20 to #11 - stifflimb

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Slowly rising up, up, up, and then the wind stopped and he started plummeting to his death once again

#21 to #20 - heartlessrobot

Reply +16 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

But he was flapping his arms really hard.

#23 to #21 - stifflimb

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Yes and it worked for a while, and then not, the 2 natural 20's are each worth 1 flap from either arm, so he only got two really good flaps out from it.

#24 to #23 - heartlessrobot

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Unless he has no idea what he's doing, he can't just instakill a player without giving him a way out.

#26 to #24 - stifflimb

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

He can ofc as he's the dm but a good one would not as you say, and the DM asked him what he was gonna try to do to save him, could be grabbing cliff, look for something else to grab, throw a grappling rope and so on, he chose to flap his arms, when you get that dumb it might just kill him, or at least give him heavy falling damage and perhaps cripple him for a while.

#153 - mrhazzy

Reply +7 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

You're a ****** DM if you're asking someone to re-roll, especially on a ******* 20. It's understandable if you want it to be a little serious, but you quite literally have to roll with it.

#157 to #153 - schneidend

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I think he just wanted to see how well he did on the second roll, as an "exploding dice" type of thing.

#163 to #157 - mrhazzy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

#162

#227 to #153 - jtfroh

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

A lot of people do confirmed critical. You roll nat 20, that's a 5% chance. Two nat 20s is 0.25% chance. So if I roll say, a nat 20 on an attack, I hit him. The second roll is whether I basically one shot him. If I'm flying with my arms or something crazy like that, I have a lot less than a 5% chance of doing that. That's physically impossible. Sothe confirmed crits makes impossible things less commom, and therefore more interesting. If 1 in 20 impossible things I try works out of sheer luck, I might as well be Jesus.

#159 to #153 - captainprincess

Reply +7 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

maybe he wanted to see if it was gonna be just one 20 and something else and he'd be like "you dont fly but your flailing arms catch onto a snag in the rocks" or something

but 2 in a row is like this character is ordained by the heavens above to complete this action successfully

#228 to #159 - jtfroh

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

Also, this. ^

#162 to #159 - mrhazzy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I'd understand if it were with advantage or disadvantage, but the way the story went it sounds like the DM didn't want any of it to begin with though, and denying a roll because it goes against how you expect it to play is a just a bad move in my opinion, The players are there to shape the story just as much as the DM.

#164 to #162 - captainprincess

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

ofcourse he didnt want it to happen
but I dont get a "roll denied" vibe I get a "ok let see if youre lucky or a ****** miracle worker"

#165 to #164 - mrhazzy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

I know a few people who would do that, and take the second roll, especially if it were a lower number, which is fair enough, the DM makes the rules, but in doing that takes away control from the player, and eventually gives off the vibe of "well I shouldn't go with this idea because the DM will just overrule it" and you'll get less adventurous players.

#199 to #165 - anon id: cd386369

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

In these situtations, my dm's, and myself included, usually would have the second roll for such an absurd situation. It's not like an advantage/disadvantage roll in 5e or anything, it's more of a "Did you manage to flail your arms into a crevice and catch yourself by sheer luck, or did you break physics" kind of moment than an "I will deny you the ability to do something absurd, completely" thing.

#167 to #165 - captainprincess

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

you want the DM to have SOME control so they can throw you into situations that you then have to play through

its not a one-sided adventure either way, it's a back-and-forth cooperation

the DM makes things happen and lets you do **** and the two groups make magic happen

#170 to #167 - mrhazzy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Exactly, the DM has the control, and so do the players, to shape the world and their actions as they see fit, but taking away the players control, you might as well tell them "you do this, you're dead, you do this, you live"

I've played games with a restrictive DM and it was quite frankly boring, he had an idea of what wanted to happen and he did nearly everything in his power to make it so, even taking away an item that "isn't being used as intended".

From my point of view, the more outrageous, the more exciting, the more fun it is to play. Restricting your players is less exciting, because they wont have as much fun. Obviously everything in moderation so it doesn't get out of hand.

#171 to #170 - captainprincess

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

well it wasnt a restriction was it
the dwarf flew

taking that into account we can assume the DM was the type to let **** slide and so the first nat20 would probably have prompted SOME survival opportunity

#172 to #171 - mrhazzy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

of course it wasn't a restriction, but, he rolled a 20, you deal with it and move on, I wouldn't ask them to roll again because I didn't like the outcome of a dice roll, it's up to chance, you can't prepare for it, he took the chance and succeeded.

#179 to #172 - thesguy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

MAN I HAVE TO AGREE WETH THES OTHER GUY
ONE ROLL MAKE SOMEHTING HAPPEN OF SURVIVAL
BUT A DWARF DOESNT DEVELOP TEH ABILITY TO FLY IN A SINGLE ROLL

THEN PRETTY SOON EVERYONE IS STANDING AROUND ALL NIGHT ROLLING TO FLY, BE RANDOMLY INVISIBLE, AND HAVE UNEXPLAINED MASSIVE PENIS

#181 to #179 - mrhazzy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

Everything in Moderation, obviously, one instance of "Divine Intervention" is fine, maybe one more depending on the circumstances.

but it should be in moderation. Calm down with the Caps lock.

#182 to #181 - thesguy

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

ITS FINE MAN DONT EVEN WORRY
MODERNATION IS MY SHET

I DONT EVEN USE TEH CAPS LOCK MAN
I JUST HOLD HTE SHIFT BAR OK

#174 to #172 - captainprincess

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

other than that though you right, overruling rolls is a bad habit

#173 to #172 - captainprincess

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

well youre only assuming he was gonna deny the first one
Im not since he didnt deny the second one

#229 to #165 - jtfroh

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(05/11/2017) [-]

Oh, yeah, that's a bad way of doing it. The dice rolled, man. Most DMs I've had just use it to determine do you get lucky through accidental success, or do you get lucky through literal deus ex machina...

#17 - angrybacteria

Reply +7 123456789123345869

(05/09/2017) [-]

Guess it really depends on the mood of the game. I'd ask to roll a reflex check to grab a ledge, but I guess if the dwarf wants to try and fly he can.
Speaking from one particular version (don't remember which one), he'd have to roll at least 8 nat 20s in a row to do that though (you can walk on a cloud with 7 in a row).

#91 - VongolaX

Reply +6 123456789123345869

(05/10/2017) [-]

i don't play DnD but this is too funny lmfao

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