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thi. Nrtvqt*
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mama
Paarty... 71
hitting '

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Views: 75282 Submitted: 05/09/2017

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#2 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply+405

(05/09/2017)[-]

"You flap your arms with spectacular timing - even birds could learn from your form. That is, any birds between you and the ground because you still fall to your death, flapping magnificently the entire way down."

#140 to #2 - ompalomper#361 on commentsRank#361

Reply+20

(05/10/2017)[-]

"By what can only be ascribed to he intervention of a particularly benevolent god your shield and weapon catch a particularly strong gust of wind. This combined with your majestic flapping is enough to push you onto the path again. The God also decrees that you pass me the last snickers"

#118 to #85 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply+4

(05/10/2017)[-]

Luck isn't a saving skill though.
If the DM is forgiving, he can put that branch there - but it would have nothing to do with the roll.

#169 to #118 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

that depends on the dm though

they could, for instance, decide that if youre lucky enough to get a nat 20, youre lucky enough for there to be a branch

#198 to #169 - greyhoundfd

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

>>#118
Alternatively, you could also not be a ****** DM and force your characters to reroll because they ****** up a single strength check or whatever it was this DM made them roll. If your PCs can come up with a reasonable explanation as to how they might survive, and they roll dice to match, give them that out.

#219 to #198 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

It was a saving ******* roll. Which means he ****** up enough times that this was his last chance.
Does anyone here actually ******* play D&D or do they just read greentexts and guess the rest?

#220 to #219 - greyhoundfd

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

You literally have no idea how the game progressed. The indication from the comment is that he ****** up one saving roll and then got 20s on the next two.

#225 to #220 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+1

(05/11/2017)[-]

Neither do you
Except for the clue that the DM let the guy be a magical flying dwarf

idk about your assumption logic but mine says that means this was a campaign where **** was let slide often

#221 to #220 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

And you literally have no idea how the mechanics of the game works.
He failed a saving throw.
Which means he failed enough skill checks to get to the point that a saving throw was necessary.
So at an absolute bare minimum he failed at least one skill roll (likely more, depending on his HP at the start) before the saving throw, which he also failed.

#222 to #221 - greyhoundfd

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

I just checked and it it wasn't even a ******* saving throw you goddamn retard. It was one skill check. Which the dwarf failed.

#178 to #169 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Unless it's a homebrew, you can't roll against luck as a stat.

#189 to #178 - mrbuu

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

nobody rolls luck. and every ******* DND game if not a tourney is homebrew. try to play dnd by following the rules 100% of the time. you wil hit a point that the rules say "user rule 0 DM fiat" basicly saying its up to the DM at that point. heck by DND rules alone you can not see nor locate the sun nor stars ever as the DC on perception to see them is a few billion on the sun and about a septquadrillion DC. because size caps out ,but distance keeps adding to the DC

#192 to #189 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Failing a saving throw is not a "ask the DM" situation.

#139 to #89 - anon id: 5e9b19d6

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

if anything, in my opinion, he shouldve been blasted to the edge of the cliff, and then one of his teammates could do a saving throw to quickly grab his hand and pull him back on?

or would that be more insane then flapping like a bird?

#116 to #89 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

They opted to go on the mountain. You go into a high-stakes area, you deal with high-stakes encounters.

#144 to #116 - tenychou

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

yeah, maybe the DM is a railroad ****, and they did not have a choice.
Still, save or die against the environment is lame, you should just warn the player before that his chances of survival are really slim, because the PC probably knows this even if the player is oblivious.

#137 to #116 - anon id: c8a50698

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

Kinda, yeah, but we are missing context of what happened before that.

When we were once met with the option to either fight our way through several villages taken over by the living dead or crossing a mountain, we chose the mountain. We agreed with the DM to a) take the crest slowly and carefully (we were in no rush) and b) that we would tie us together with rope.

Therefore, we only made rolls when we were passing extremely tough passages. On one occassion, it was actually our ranger who would have slipped but because our paladin had announced that he watches closely, he easily pulled him back up.

We still fell to our death when several members slipped, tho.

#111 to #89 - xdavenger

Reply-2

(05/10/2017)[-]

43 replies hidden: Please view thread directly to view.

#124 to #111 - dopeydoo

Reply+5

(05/10/2017)[-]

*pssst* if it was fun it would have stayed in the game

#130 to #124 - xdavenger

Reply-1

(05/10/2017)[-]

you do know fun is a subjective concept right?

By the logic of your own argument, if it was not fun as people seem to imply people would not have played it. People would not have turned tomb of horrors into such a meme if they did not derive enjoyment from beating it.

It was not a question of fun. It was a question of accesibility. Of reducing game difficuty and giving players more and more free passes in hopes of atracting wider appeal. Which I don't have a problem with in this case, I can house rule to my heart's content, but I do have a problem with new people coming here and telling me "this is not fun, I know what DnD should truly be" when they haven't even heard of DnD and were probably not even born when it started. People so adverse to any difficulty and risk they bawl and cry when their special snowflake characters die.

The "it's not fun" argument is not an argument to quote another meme. And it wasn't fun that drove the exclusion of these systems and creating all those safety nets that make sure players have to roll an ungodly amounts of fail in a row to die and the creation of the RPGA where DMs are specificaly told "Do not kill players". It was accesibility and dumbing down in the name of wider market appeal.

#131 to #130 - dopeydoo

Reply+3

(05/10/2017)[-]

when I said fun, I meant fun for most people. Obviously some players found it fun, my point is that the majority of people obviously did not, or it would have been continued in later editions of the game. Plus, I didn't even mean "not fun" as "this sucked", I meant "not fun" as "not as good as it could / should have been".

Your logic about turning the game into a meme doesn't make much sense either. You can still like a game if a few aspects of it aren't great, and a game can be both popular and in need of improvement. And, if you really like that way of playing, you can always play like that, nobody's stopping you, but you shouldn't try to stop others from playing the way they want either. DnD rules are guidelines, nobody is holding a gun to your head and making you follow them

#133 to #131 - xdavenger

Reply-2

(05/10/2017)[-]

I'm not trying to stop them from playing anything. I'm pointing out that saying "this is dumb as ****, you hate fun, nat20 means I break reality" is stupid, not factualy based in the rules of the system and them beeing sore defensive loosers to afraid of loosing a character who want to make their way to play the norm. To quote >>#89 "I mean a DM giving a single Save or Die throw out of the blue is garbage DMing". Yeah no, it's not. Opinion presented as fact.

And again: "the majority did not find them funy" ... hilarious realy. If that was the case why did they play it? It's circular logic mate, we can go at this for ages without reaching an actual logical conclusion. Besides if you know anything about the release history of DnD, you know that the old fanbase always complained when all these free-passes were added to make the game super-easy, even as a new fanbase was atracted to replace them and was wider due to ... well duh beeing an easier more accesible game overall. It's far more logical to see these changes as atempts to draw in more players than actualy trying to please their fanbase. and as >>#127 points out rightly: if those rules were as hated as you say, there would not be a market for them. And one that is quite large if not mainstream due to marketing limitations.

#146 to #133 - magiclizard

Reply+3

(05/10/2017)[-]

After reading many of your long-winded comments, I can conclude you are the robot pounding in the no-fun allowed sign.

You know how many people play first edition DnD? not a whole ******* lot, the game evolved into editions like 3.5 and 5e, because at some point **** like "Save or Die, no other option" becomes boring as **** and you get invested in characters. DnD is a high fantasy game no matter how much wizards wants to dilute that fact, not a gritty ******* reality simulator.

You know what players do going into tomb of horrors? They ******* EXPECT to die. Not on some ****** mountainside where a low-to-ground dwarf in heavy plate shouldn't even be touched by the god damn wind.

If you can't reliably play one character and get invested in the role-play, it stops being worth it very ******* quickly.

If that DM had just shoved the dwarf off the cliff, which sounds like a pretty ******* guaranteed death considering, he probably would've ****** right off from that table because it's not fun.

TL;DR you have no ******* idea what fun is, and should never never never sit down and DM anything

#148 to #146 - xdavenger

Reply-3

(05/10/2017)[-]

oh look, prove my points exactly about defining subective concepts and claiming only you hold the true interpretation of things.

Grow up you entitled little child. Instead of pretending people are trying to ruin your "fun" when it's a jackass self-awareness lacking retard like you telling everyone who disagrees they are wrong and don't know what fun is and that they should never play or DM.

#149 to #148 - magiclizard

Reply+3

(05/10/2017)[-]

Yes, continue to prove you're a ******* as well.

You talk about the deep past of DnD and expect it to hold true to todays values.

There are times for meat-grinders and people will set up specifically for those. Most do not go in for super-grit and while they expect to die at any given time dependant on their actions, they do NOT expect to die to a random ******* whim from a newly minted asshole on one end of the table.

You see DMs like matt mercer telling his crew "Roll STR to stop these massive boulders from killing you, the mountain just came alive"

If we could seperate tabletop gaming into decent people and trash, you would be the latter.

The example in the content is clearly not ******* tomb of horrors, it's not a ******* meatgrinder-type campaign.

Again, please never DM, I do not wish that fate upon anyone who enjoys tabletop.

#231 to #133 - dopeydoo

Reply0

(05/18/2017)[-]

reading comprehension...

>> I'm pointing out that saying "this is dumb as ****, you hate fun, nat20 means I break reality" is stupid, not factualy based in the rules of the system and them beeing sore defensive loosers to afraid of loosing a character who want to make their way to play the norm.

followed by

>>I mean a DM giving a single Save or Die throw out of the blue is garbage DMing". Yeah no, it's not. Opinion presented as fact.

yours is also an opinion presented as fact.

>>If that was the case why did they play it?

refer to my comment, "I didn't even mean "not fun" as "this sucked", I meant "not fun" as "not as good as it could / should have been" AND "You can still like a game if a few aspects of it aren't great, and a game can be both popular and in need of improvement."

>>you know that the old fanbase always complained when all these free-passes were added to make the game super-easy, even as a new fanbase was atracted to replace them and was wider due to ... well duh beeing an easier more accesible game overall.

Exactly my point. A.) people ALWAYS, literaly ALWAYS, complain when something they like gets changed, whether or not the changes are good, bad, or completely neutral and unimportant. see: The entire history of Youtube format, Facebook format, most video games... and B.) if a niche group of players found it fun, the "core fanbase" in your eyes, but other people, who would have been interested in the game otherwise, did not which we know is the case, you said it yourself then I'm right; the majority of people did not find it fun, and changing it made it fun for more people.

>>If those rules were as hated as you say, there would not be a market for them.

Not even close to true, as again, refer to my comment: "I didn't even mean "not fun" as "this sucked", I meant "not fun" as "not as good as it could / should have been" I know I'm posting that quote twice again, some players obviously found them fun, and those players would want to keep playing them, but that doesn't make them good rules. If those rules were as good and right as you say, there would not NEED to be a market for them, they would be in the core game still.

#127 to #124 - siveon

Reply-1

(05/10/2017)[-]

Considering the fact that there's many rule books that try to emulate pre 3.5 D&D, or at the very least try to go for old-school death, I don't think fun has anything to do with that sort of rule.

Just boggles down to preference.

#147 to #108 - magiclizard

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

RIP

#121 to #88 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply+3

(05/10/2017)[-]

Had he rolled those 20s on his saving throw, you'd be right.
But he didn't.
He rolled them on a skill he doesn't have (flying).

#151 to #121 - yologdog#385 on commentsRank#385

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

I mean yeah. I don't shy away from killing characters, but when people roll two Nat 20's in a row on something I usually throw them some kind of miracle, or else the player start getting annoyed at their helplessness.

#132 to #46 - blackmageewizardt

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

because explaining to your dm the mere function of why you tied all the Party members on a Long as rope so he doesn´t get confused is not Basic 101 communication skills.

#125 to #106 - dopeydoo

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Well, you're both kind of right and kind of wrong at this point.

While it's fair that some people like to play with the magic nat20 ****, and so that doesn't automatically mean **** DM, that could just be how it's played with them, you also have to take into account that there are way better ways of handling that situation (>>#88) than just saying "yeah **** it you flap your arms and fly up." Allowing him to live because of a good roll isn't the sign of a **** DM, BUT I'd argue that the fact that he just went with flappy dwarf means you can assume an inexperienced DM.

That being said, I think having a dwarf (with a dense body and low center of gravity, along with likely very high strength) wearing heavy plate armor (basically a ******* anchor at this point) make saving throws against wind, no matter how high up in the mountain they are, is stupid and likely a bad DM choice. I mean, the way I see it, any wind that this dwarf has to save against has blown all of the other party members off the cliff already

#114 to #110 - anonusedhug

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

one more note thanks for bringing me the list lost it a while ago and forgot some of my favourites

#113 to #110 - anonusedhug

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

43 replies hidden: Please view thread directly to view.

#128 to #73 - dopeydoo

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

how was he "not allowed" to die? He had a 1/400 chance of getting two nat20s, and it looks to me like the DM was just so impressed with the luck he said **** it. I agree with phoenixforger, reread the post:

DM: ...what do you do?

Dwarf: I flap my arms really hard

DM: Seriously?

Dwarf: Not like I got any better options

DM: Ok roll for it

See, if you're doing a way more realistic campaign where that dwarf is ******* deadso, the conversations goes

DM: ...what do you do?

Dwarf: I flap my arms really hard

DM: Seriously?

Dwarf: Not like I got any better options

DM: Ok... I mean you're a dwarf in heavy armor... but you do the best bird impression of your life on the way down

Dwarf: They will remember me as the first bird-dwarf hybrid

Or something to that effect. The player didn't just EXPECT his rolls to break reality, the DM allowed him to roll, which means there must be a chance that his actions can do something. Should that something by magically just flying up? No, but that's the DM's fault for not being creative, >>#88 has tons of ideas where that dwarf lives without just "rocks fall everybody dies" but in reverse, "dwarf flaps everybody flies" My mom says I'm funny...

If you tell your player to roll, then there has to be a point to the roll. Why have him roll at all if you're gonna kill him regardless?

#129 to #128 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

"I know the DM allowed it. My point is I disagree with allowing it."

#112 to #78 - anon id: c6843c80

Reply+3

(05/10/2017)[-]

43 replies hidden: Please view thread directly to view.

#122 to #112 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Comment* not comic.

#117 to #112 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

And the point of my comic is to say how much I disagree with the original DM's response.

#123 to #117 - anon id: c6843c80

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

That's fair. He shouldn't have given the player the chance to roll like that.

#180 to #78 - phoenixforger

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Wow, man. I GM games all the time, and have been playing different rpgs for about 5 years now. If you've never encountered a GM making a house rule on the spot, then I think your experience should be questioned. It happens all the time in normal DnD. Most likely the roll in question was a strength check of some sort.

The GM could've said "You plummet off the cliff, and die." simple.
Instead he said "You plummet off the cliff, WHAT DO YOU DO?"

He clearly allowed the character to take an action. Then the player stated his action (flap his arms like a madman). Then the GM told him to roll. The player rolled the best possible result. The GM had him roll again, that being a way to achieve a potentially better result. Another 20. It works! And why not? It's their game. If they're having fun, who cares? If he had failed, he would have fallen to his death, flapping his arms like a jackass. That seems like sufficient risk.

Aside from that, there are many different schools of Game Mastery. Some prefer fast and loose, letting cool trump rules. Others prefer by-the-book, rules intensive games. Both have merit, both can be lots of fun. I have mastered and played in games of both kinds, and all kinds in between. These games we play are social, imaginative, intellectual, challenging, and complex. Don't try to nail it down too much.

#184 to #180 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

If you DM, the should know that failing a saving throw isn't a predetermined loss. It's a series of losses leading up to the point that you have to roll to save yourself.
To call it predetermined is to be the player that ragequits because their character died. To be a DM and call it the same is something else entirely.

#190 to #184 - phoenixforger

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

You're being incredibly dense. He didn't fail the roll to flap his arms and fly. He evidently succeeded. The saving throw against falling off the cliff was... a saving throw to not fall off the cliff. He failed that, fell, then successfully flew back up. The GM didn't have to let him take an action while falling, or allow him a chance to roll for it, but the GM allowed these things and it worked.

#191 to #190 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Allow me to reiterate for the dozenth time:
I disagree with the DM giving him the extra action after failing the throw. It means that whatever the failed roll was, it was not a saving throw.
And my point exactly: he rolled 20 on flapping his arms. And he did an amazing job of it. But it doesn't make a dwarf fly.

#195 to #191 - phoenixforger

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Why shouldn't he get an action while falling? What if he chose to throw a grappling hook? Or stab daggers into the side of the mountain? Maybe use a magic scroll? You can do things while falling, that's why the player got an action.

The saving throw he failed was against falling OFF the cliff, nothing else. Were I the GM, I'd totally give the player an action while falling.

Maybe allowing a roll for flight wasn't the best answer, but once its allowed, the GM should stick with it.

Besides, there are plenty of fun ways to make this make sense in the game later on.
-Maybe the god of flightless birds took pity on this dwarf and saved him, and this was like a prayer/piety check.
-Or this was a luck check, and the a updraft of wind blew the dwarf back up onto the cliff. Perhaps the wind was caused by a sleepy dragon's snores down by the base of the mount.
-Maybe the dwarf has latent psychic powers that he can learn to unlock later on by multi-classing. Most systems say that you have a 1% chance of that. He got 2 natural twenties, 0.25%, so that would be good.

Any number of things to do with this if you're clever.

#186 to #53 - ktkthegreat

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

You get to fly if the DM says you get to fly. I agree it's not a good way to deal with this situation but the rules are what the DM says they are.

#194 to #186 - justtocomment#217 on commentsRank#217

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

The rules are what the rule book says they are. And flight is covered by the rules.
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fly
www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Flight
It's an actual ability you put points into. It's got tiers and modifiers.
Even if this dwarf spontaneously developed the ability, he would have no maneuverability and only be able to carry a minimum load (no heavy armor). This is like having a halfling rogue roll a 20 and suddenly be able to run at full-sprint in massive plate armor - it's a 20 modifier for a skill with a less-than-0 value.

#197 to #194 - ktkthegreat

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I'd like to add that if the DM decided he should die, that would've been fine too.
I'd understand it if the player got kinda pissed though.

#196 to #194 - ktkthegreat

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Even so. What the DM says, goes.
I agree that the dwarf could've paid for his failed save with some hit points. But I also think that since the DM allowed him to roll when he tried to get out of his predicament, rolling 20 would save him from certain death. No matter how that was achieved.
Flying is of course pretty absurd, but to each their own.

#5 - Maroon#247 on commentsRank#247

Reply+89

(05/09/2017)[-]

That's dumb as hell. Rolling a nat 20, even twice in a row, doesn't spontaneously cause miracles to happen.
If he said, "I try to grab the ledge" and got two nat 20's I'd give him an instant and easy return to the path.
All that stupid comment would earn him from me is "You plummet to your death as you've made zero effort to actually save yourself. The rest of the party is impressed by your spectacular bird imitation but question your split second decision making process. Roll a new character, dumbass."

#7 to #5 - karroll#31 on contentRank#31 [OP]

Reply+55

(05/09/2017)[-]

#8 to #7 - Maroon#247 on commentsRank#247

Reply+19

(05/09/2017)[-]

It isn't fun, it's retarded. If you just want to roll a die and get away with anything, logic be damned, then sit alone at home and roll a d20 over and over again and celebrate whenever it lands on a 20.

#10 to #8 - lkszangs

Reply+40

(05/09/2017)[-]

For you tabletop rpgs may be just a game to win.
But for people that like to role play and laugh everything goes as long as it is funny.

#12 to #10 - sandwichreset

Reply+20

(05/09/2017)[-]

Depends on the campaign to be honest. If it ain't that serious then I would say that the dwarf flies. If it is that serious then the dwarf dies. It always comes down to expectations.

#55 to #12 - anonusedhug

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

its bad dm'ing I would just excuse it somehow godly miricle strong updraft something

#95 to #55 - azumeow

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

His arm catches in a split in the cave wall, you take 1d6 falling damage, make a strength saving throw to hold yourself up, you get a +5 bonus because your ******* arm is wedged in the cliff

#96 to #95 - anonusedhug

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

good idea

#97 to #96 - azumeow

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I'm not opposed to the idea of him somehow surviving through sheer luck because 2 nat 20's is pretty crazy, but I do think him just suddenly becoming ******* flappy bird is stupid.

#69 to #55 - sandwichreset

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

You kill the mood/suspension of disbelief in some cases with that. Twenties aren't always god given powers and blessings. Sometimes they are the upper limit of your characters, that's just how it is.

It''s not bad DMing to know when ******** is appropriate, and when it is ********. If the monk tries to fly on two twenties, I might give it to him. If the heavy armor fighter tries it, not so much. All in all it depends on the sort of campaign you're playing, or in other words, how far have you made it appropriate to pull the suspension of disbelief. Okaying ******** can walk the entire mile around and bite it's own tail.

I the end, what works best is being clear with your players on what a twenty is and isn't in the campaign, and make it clear so that no one can fume about it later.

#72 to #69 - anonusedhug

Reply+6

(05/10/2017)[-]

yeah but its still bad dm'ing to oneshot the hero because he failed one throw.
it would be like the legend of Hercules ending in the second sentence with him tripping and breaking his neck despite demigod near immortality

#76 to #72 - sandwichreset

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

Yeah, of course, killing characters should be done with care after all. But instead of a Deus Ex Machina, make a ledge or outcropping, land him unconscious or, if flair and slight DEM is okay, have the local, legendary bird monster/cloud spirit/slightly mad wizard/taunting BBEG pick him/her up and carry them off to a nest/mountaintop/secret lab/back on track in a fit of "Only I can kill you weaklings!". Or strong wind that might be blamed on godly intervention shoves them back on the mountainside again.

#77 to #76 - anonusedhug

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

that was my original comment to you although the concept of immediately following up with combat is interesting

#79 to #77 - sandwichreset

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

If the players **** up, ******* up, or give them a smack on the fingers. Also its four in the morning here so I am about as stable as nitroglycerine right now and the context of what you wrote flew right by me, but it's nice talking regardless.

#80 to #79 - anonusedhug

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

and you as well sir

#19 to #10 - asugar#354 on commentsRank#354

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

**asugar used "*roll picture*"**
**asugar rolled image**That isn't role playing. It's just silly horse **** backed up by dice. Role playing would be attempting to slow himself down or stop himself with something he has on him, not throwing out "lol so random xd" crap.

#32 to #19 - lkszangs

Reply+4

(05/10/2017)[-]

Magic moderfocker do you know it?
If you believe hard enough you can do anything.
Or just say that it was a ******* wind elemental helping him or some ****.

#40 to #19 - anonusedhug

Reply+3

(05/10/2017)[-]

thats the point the player has accepted death

#168 to #19 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

I bet you larp and argue with people over damage stats

#13 to #10 - Maroon#247 on commentsRank#247

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

Your statement is ass-backwards. If you expect rolling a nat 20 to magically solve any dilemma you're in, then you're not role-playing. At all. Thinking through the problem and coming up with your own solution is role-playing. Getting presented with a problem and going "Well, I'm gonna do some random **** that's got **** all to do with what's going on but I rolled a 20 so DM you need to magic away the consequences of my actions" is not role-playing. D&D is not "anything goes" there are rules and guidelines and things need to be somehow grounded in reality. Magically being able to fly by flapping your wings for no other reason than you rolled a die and got a number breaks immersion for the other players and turns the campaign into a joke. At that point, you don't even need a DM, you're just sitting around ************ impossible scenarios and seeing if you get a roll to justify it.

#15 to #13 - lorddread

Reply+9

(05/09/2017)[-]

It isn't fun for me so it must be fun for no one. The dm doesn't know the players at his game as well as I do, and goofing around gets in the way of good structured fun.

#41 to #13 - anonusedhug

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

one problem with this is that his "action" was follow a ******* quest with the rest of his party he has no real way of doing anything with plate armor holding him back he has nothing but to call to chaos and beg for mercy

#14 to #13 - Maroon#247 on commentsRank#247

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

*flapping your arms*

#120 to #8 - dopeydoo

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

"I DON'T THINK IT'S FUN SO NEITHER CAN YOU"

#158 to #5 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

yes it does
idc how grand and spectacular your world or story is

2 nat 20's in a row is literally a dnd miracle and the gods themselves will descend from on high to help you complete whatever action has been blessed with such rolls

#203 to #158 - schneidend#412 on commentsRank#412

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Meh. Not how I'd run it in this scenario. As many others have suggested, a miraculous grabbing of a branch(es) or other narrow avoidance of certain death, or rescue by a magical creature or ally would be much better in most campaigns.

#224 to #203 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

I mean IM in a campaign where Im a rack of psychic sausages

so from my perspective the flying dwarf is perfect

#160 to #158 - Maroon#247 on commentsRank#247

Reply-3

(05/10/2017)[-]

Well, you're not only wrong, you're stupid. There's a one in 400 chance of getting 2 20's in a row. Depending on how long a session and how heavily players rely on dice over role-playing, there's a good chance of getting it once per session and it's pretty much guaranteed over 2-3 sessions. 1/400 chance of something is not worthy of a deus ex machina.

#161 to #160 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

You're no DM
You're a ****** bore

#136 to #5 - figuretivelyican

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

"A PLAYSTYLE DIFFERENT FROM MINE? ******* UNACCEPTABLE"

#86 to #5 - godisbert

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

Nobody is pointing a gun to your head and saying "PLAY LIKE THIS", we're just saying it's fun. I do enjoy more serious, grounded campaigns, but silly ones based around absurdist actions like this make for great laughs, and good improv exercises too.

#87 to #86 - drazilodomok

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

i think there is two ways of playing. serious and life-like, or random and absurd. both are fun, but one isn't necessarily acceptable in the other. it is based off of the DM you want to be/play with. if you don't like a DM's style find a new place to play. though this is coming from someone never playing before, so whatever.

#39 to #5 - anonusedhug

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

he's not a dumbass he's making it fun. if he fails then its a majestic death for the party to laugh at. if he succeeds then its a case of cleric wants you to live miracle happens. many characters that are min maxed do this because random ******** that calls upon the gods of chaos is better than -5 dex modifier because of one bad roll. this is especially true if you for some reason such as any number of ******* bandit raids don't have grappling hooks/ropes or climbing axes.its a pact with the dm an extra hard roll that gets no bonuses or decrements from stats.also if you would say that to a player you're a bit of a dick and I'm surprised people return to your campaigns.

#36 to #5 - anon id: 6b6fdb62

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

Except the fact that something could or could not happen is entirely up to the DM, after all, DM has the power of "rocks fall, everybody dies" and "Cthulhu in power armor comes across the hill, roll initiative"

#92 to #5 - landcucumber

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I feel in a world with spirits, gods, magic and monsters a little bending of physics is perfect acceptable.

#4 - endorphindolphin

Reply+32

(05/09/2017)[-]

"See you nerds on the other side of the cliff."

#31 - rollmeanddie

Reply+26

(05/09/2017)[-]

Jesus ******* christ this 'nat 20 = impossible results' meme is the worst thing to have ever come out of /tg/. It really makes you realize 90% of /tg/ is too autistic to have ever gotten a group together for a game of D&D, and that they just make **** up.

#34 to #31 - abignerd

Reply+6

(05/10/2017)[-]

Come on you just gotta have a sense of fun, like stubborning a hole to make its stop existing, stupid but hilarious

#135 to #31 - Endofzeeworld

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Well it depends. In a lot of cases any Tabletop is going to be drama-driven. It's why heroes are able to survive death causing blows and why PCs in games are often just better than NPCS, because they're heroes. In cases like these, if its a more comedic game, that same plot-armor type thing can occur if it makes sense in the genre and the drama.

It all depends on whether you're a story/character drive RPGer, or a tactical board game number cruncher RPGer. Both are equally valid ways to RPG, and they result in different things.

#33 to #31 - PgFalcon

Reply-6

(05/10/2017)[-]

A natural 20 means success at whatever you character is attempting. A 1 means life threatening failure. Makes for fun times.

#142 to #33 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

"I glare the BBEG into submission" *rolls 20*
"Well... it appears the biggest baddest evil being in the world is cowered by a simple glare from a healer-gnome. game is over I guess."

#205 to #142 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

If you're willing to aceppt a 20:1 odds against you, then you obviously don't understand gambling. the 20 and the 1 are a fun based reward / punishment system. If played with a competent DM it doesn't skew the difficulty of the game, or might even make it much, much harder.

#206 to #205 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

again. Fun does not equal game-breaking. You can do one without needing the other.

#208 to #206 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

What you're trying to imply is that it's unbalanced. What I'm saying is that you're an idiot if you own impose unlimited reward on just the roll of a 20 without also imposing unlimited penalty on the 1.

Of course, the severe / amazing consequences only needs to take place when attempting something truely 'impossible'.

I would argue that a roll of a 1 for the 'flapping arms really hard' should result in somehow harming your companions as well.

#207 to #206 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

How is guarenteed success game breaking?

#209 to #207 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

"How is a dwarf with heavy armor that can fly by flapping his arms game-breaking?"

Are you even listening to yourself?

A fun, but believable response would be "You flapping your arms did nothing, but luckily a thick branch caught you by the armor, you are now hanging from a thick branch off a cliff."

#214 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Also, a funny way for this to work would be some silly old wizard enchanting that rock-face some thousand years ago so that if some fell off it and then attempted to fly like a bird that they would temporarily be granted said ability.

#218 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

like this.

#217 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

also comment

#216 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I can

#215 to #214 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

hey

#213 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

That just demonstrates a lack of intelligence on the DM's part, but he was correct in awarding the player with a good outcome.

#211 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

No matter the endeavor, the must always be that 'chance for success'. You can't have literally every outcome be bad.

#210 to #209 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Just because you can't understand something that you're seeing, doesn't mean it doesn't have a good explanation.

Maybe there was a sudden freak gush of wind shooting up the side of the mountain strong enough to carry a dwarf at the same exact instant that he attempted to save his own life by flapping his arms? Hurricane force winds bruh.

Do you even own an imagination?

#212 to #210 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

That is not the scenario in the content. The scenario was
>Dwarf flaps arms hard
>He rolls 20.
>He can now fly.

And I am not saying it should be impossible to save himself, but at the very least be in the realm of logic and not just some ass-pull, because you, as a DM, lack any form of imagination.

Also for heavens sake, write 1 comment, instead of splitting them constantly up in 2 seperated comments.

#226 to #212 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

Well, sometimes I have more to say on something I didn't think I'd have more to say on.

And impossible things happening are part of D&D. It's all about what you can get away with, and how willing you are to entertain. It isn't supposed to be super serious. Think of it as telling a children's story with weird rules.

#204 to #142 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Also, in that situation, I would also argue that anything less than a 20 would result in your character ******** themselves in fear, with a 1 resulting in scared to death.

#200 to #142 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

That's right boi-o

#201 to #200 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

that just seems overly silly for my taste.

Fun should be allowed, but game-breaking fun is not just stupid.

#202 to #201 - daniboyi

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

IS just stupid*

#134 to #33 - blackmageewizardt

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

cast miracle if you want a ******* miracle to Pop up.

#100 to #33 - rollmeanddie

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Succes, yes. Even great success. Stupid bs? No.

#101 to #100 - xlelez

Reply+4

(05/10/2017)[-]

if it was only a single nat 20, i'd agree with you, but this was a ******* double nat 20. At some point the dice gods have spoken and it's time to let **** happen and break the laws of physics!

#102 to #101 - rollmeanddie

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

One in four hundred bullets does not bounce off two walls to hit a dude in the back.

#103 to #102 - xlelez

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

No but you're playing a fantasy game for the fun of things, So... we can just say "magic".

#104 to #103 - rollmeanddie

Reply+2

(05/10/2017)[-]

No, magic is what I use to explain the giant walking city powered by the dreams and hopes of elf children.

#58 to #33 - lordfenris

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I want to jump to the moon. I'm going to keep trying till it works. In what possible situation is that sort of crap fun?

#105 to #58 - anonusedhug

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

because if you fail you majestically kill yourself and everyone laughs

#61 to #58 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Also 50 50 chance of failing so spectacularly that you die anyways.

#63 to #61 - lordfenris

Reply+5

(05/10/2017)[-]

50/50 chance that a newborn baby makes an artifact by flailing in a forge. 50/50 a legendary blacksmith spontaneously dies forging a basic sword. Real fun.

#71 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

And bosses can roll 20s too, lmao.

#70 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

The goal of a dungeons is usually much, much longer term than one lucky roll. Even if that nature 20 kills a boss you normally couldn't handle, there are always more bosses.

#68 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

And equally likely to end with workshop being destroyed and party arrested for failure to pay for damages.

#65 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

But likely a waste of a turn.

#64 to #63 - PgFalcon

Reply-2

(05/10/2017)[-]

Good way to try your luck and get an extra item, yea.

#60 to #58 - PgFalcon

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

It'd be a waste of 10 turns and would result in your character dying in space.

#62 to #58 - PgFalcon

Reply-2

(05/10/2017)[-]

And good dms don't allow you to attempt twice what has already been failed once.

#126 - karenoniks

Reply+20

(05/10/2017)[-]

The way that DM did this is fine if everyone had fun but this is how I would've done it:
"A sudden screech, your spastic arm flailing seems to have attracted a Gray Harpy, she mistakes you for a baby bird falling to it's dead. She grabs you with her claws and puts you safely back on the cliff. Roll charisma"

If succeded:
"Grey Harpy seems to be a bit upset that the thing she just saved is a dwarf, they are known here for stealing eggs for their twisted meals, but the look of relief you gave her and your friendly face calmed her down a bit. She flies away, never to be seen again"

If failed:
"The Grey Harpy recognizes you, your height, your beard, your ugliness. You're a dwarf! Dwarves here are known for plundering the nests of expecting bird mothers. You can see her eyes water, and she lunges towards you. You have to fight her."

#141 to #126 - bulwark

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

Good idea... but.

I don't think you would come up with that in the span of 5 seconds like the DM probably had to.

#150 - angryeggs

Reply+8

(05/10/2017)[-]

Please, for the love of all that is holy, someone draw this, this is ******* hilarious

#155 to #150 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+18

(05/10/2017)[-]

got u fam

#176 to #155 - angryeggs

has deleted their comment [-]

#175 to #155 - lewdsalt#104 on commentsRank#104

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Your an amazing person.

#177 to #175 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

#156 to #155 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

>>#152,

#152 to #150 - kronk

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Dude if only i could, this needs to visualised

#11 - anon id: f8f51d84

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

To everyone who says he should have just fell to his death, I disagree. The wind could could whip around and slowed the fall, and gave him a few moments of a feather fall effect. THEN he continues falling to his death. Unless he keeps rolling 20s

#20 to #11 - stifflimb

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

Slowly rising up, up, up, and then the wind stopped and he started plummeting to his death once again

#21 to #20 - heartlessrobot#129 on commentsRank#129

Reply+16

(05/09/2017)[-]

But he was flapping his arms really hard.

#23 to #21 - stifflimb

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

Yes and it worked for a while, and then not, the 2 natural 20's are each worth 1 flap from either arm, so he only got two really good flaps out from it.

#24 to #23 - heartlessrobot#129 on commentsRank#129

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

Unless he has no idea what he's doing, he can't just instakill a player without giving him a way out.

#26 to #24 - stifflimb

Reply0

(05/09/2017)[-]

He can ofc as he's the dm but a good one would not as you say, and the DM asked him what he was gonna try to do to save him, could be grabbing cliff, look for something else to grab, throw a grappling rope and so on, he chose to flap his arms, when you get that dumb it might just kill him, or at least give him heavy falling damage and perhaps cripple him for a while.

#153 - mrhazzy

Reply+7

(05/10/2017)[-]

You're a ****** DM if you're asking someone to re-roll, especially on a ******* 20. It's understandable if you want it to be a little serious, but you quite literally have to roll with it.

#159 to #153 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+7

(05/10/2017)[-]

maybe he wanted to see if it was gonna be just one 20 and something else and he'd be like "you dont fly but your flailing arms catch onto a snag in the rocks" or something

but 2 in a row is like this character is ordained by the heavens above to complete this action successfully

#228 to #159 - jtfroh#61 on commentsRank#61

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

Also, this. ^

#162 to #159 - mrhazzy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I'd understand if it were with advantage or disadvantage, but the way the story went it sounds like the DM didn't want any of it to begin with though, and denying a roll because it goes against how you expect it to play is a just a bad move in my opinion, The players are there to shape the story just as much as the DM.

#164 to #162 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

ofcourse he didnt want it to happen
but I dont get a "roll denied" vibe I get a "ok let see if youre lucky or a ****** miracle worker"

#165 to #164 - mrhazzy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I know a few people who would do that, and take the second roll, especially if it were a lower number, which is fair enough, the DM makes the rules, but in doing that takes away control from the player, and eventually gives off the vibe of "well I shouldn't go with this idea because the DM will just overrule it" and you'll get less adventurous players.

#199 to #165 - anon id: cd386369

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

In these situtations, my dm's, and myself included, usually would have the second roll for such an absurd situation. It's not like an advantage/disadvantage roll in 5e or anything, it's more of a "Did you manage to flail your arms into a crevice and catch yourself by sheer luck, or did you break physics" kind of moment than an "I will deny you the ability to do something absurd, completely" thing.

#167 to #165 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

you want the DM to have SOME control so they can throw you into situations that you then have to play through

its not a one-sided adventure either way, it's a back-and-forth cooperation

the DM makes things happen and lets you do **** and the two groups make magic happen

#170 to #167 - mrhazzy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Exactly, the DM has the control, and so do the players, to shape the world and their actions as they see fit, but taking away the players control, you might as well tell them "you do this, you're dead, you do this, you live"

I've played games with a restrictive DM and it was quite frankly boring, he had an idea of what wanted to happen and he did nearly everything in his power to make it so, even taking away an item that "isn't being used as intended".

From my point of view, the more outrageous, the more exciting, the more fun it is to play. Restricting your players is less exciting, because they wont have as much fun. Obviously everything in moderation so it doesn't get out of hand.

#171 to #170 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply+1

(05/10/2017)[-]

well it wasnt a restriction was it
the dwarf flew

taking that into account we can assume the DM was the type to let **** slide and so the first nat20 would probably have prompted SOME survival opportunity

#172 to #171 - mrhazzy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

of course it wasn't a restriction, but, he rolled a 20, you deal with it and move on, I wouldn't ask them to roll again because I didn't like the outcome of a dice roll, it's up to chance, you can't prepare for it, he took the chance and succeeded.

#179 to #172 - thesguy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

MAN I HAVE TO AGREE WETH THES OTHER GUY
ONE ROLL MAKE SOMEHTING HAPPEN OF SURVIVAL
BUT A DWARF DOESNT DEVELOP TEH ABILITY TO FLY IN A SINGLE ROLL

THEN PRETTY SOON EVERYONE IS STANDING AROUND ALL NIGHT ROLLING TO FLY, BE RANDOMLY INVISIBLE, AND HAVE UNEXPLAINED MASSIVE PENIS

#181 to #179 - mrhazzy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

Everything in Moderation, obviously, one instance of "Divine Intervention" is fine, maybe one more depending on the circumstances.

but it should be in moderation. Calm down with the Caps lock.

#182 to #181 - thesguy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

ITS FINE MAN DONT EVEN WORRY
MODERNATION IS MY SHET

I DONT EVEN USE TEH CAPS LOCK MAN
I JUST HOLD HTE SHIFT BAR OK

#174 to #172 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

other than that though you right, overruling rolls is a bad habit

#173 to #172 - captainprincess#257 on commentsRank#257

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

well youre only assuming he was gonna deny the first one
Im not since he didnt deny the second one

#229 to #165 - jtfroh#61 on commentsRank#61

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

Oh, yeah, that's a bad way of doing it. The dice rolled, man. Most DMs I've had just use it to determine do you get lucky through accidental success, or do you get lucky through literal deus ex machina...

#227 to #153 - jtfroh#61 on commentsRank#61

Reply0

(05/11/2017)[-]

A lot of people do confirmed critical. You roll nat 20, that's a 5% chance. Two nat 20s is 0.25% chance. So if I roll say, a nat 20 on an attack, I hit him. The second roll is whether I basically one shot him. If I'm flying with my arms or something crazy like that, I have a lot less than a 5% chance of doing that. That's physically impossible. Sothe confirmed crits makes impossible things less commom, and therefore more interesting. If 1 in 20 impossible things I try works out of sheer luck, I might as well be Jesus.

#157 to #153 - schneidend#412 on commentsRank#412

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

I think he just wanted to see how well he did on the second roll, as an "exploding dice" type of thing.

#163 to #157 - mrhazzy

Reply0

(05/10/2017)[-]

#162

#17 - angrybacteria

Reply+7

(05/09/2017)[-]

Guess it really depends on the mood of the game. I'd ask to roll a reflex check to grab a ledge, but I guess if the dwarf wants to try and fly he can.
Speaking from one particular version (don't remember which one), he'd have to roll at least 8 nat 20s in a row to do that though (you can walk on a cloud with 7 in a row).

#91 - VongolaX

Reply+6

(05/10/2017)[-]

i don't play DnD but this is too funny lmfao

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