Christian Dark Ages. one two three four five. I THE HALE g THE CHRISTIAN DARK AGES new 1 Egyptian " Renaissance I Greek Age T, Enlightenment Remain l,' Science  no
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Christian Dark Ages. one two three four five. I THE HALE g THE CHRISTIAN DARK AGES new 1 Egyptian " Renaissance I Greek Age T, Enlightenment Remain l,' Science

one two three four five

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I THE HALE
g THE CHRISTIAN
DARK AGES
new
1 Egyptian " Renaissance
I Greek Age T, Enlightenment
Remain l,' Science
I Christian Dark Ages
Customink. we twould have been exploring the galaxy by new
...
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Views: 54872 Submitted: 05/11/2012
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#207 - Drstein
Reply +95 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
being a history major and all, its actually because of the fall of the roman empire, and disintegration of society, thanks to Christian monks, we were able to save a lot of the knowledge of the past, because the copied the documents that would other wise have been lost,
#211 to #207 - anon id: e29e7210
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Being a history major you should know better than that ********. The reason for the loss is because of the burning of the temple of Alexandria because of the Christians. Christians didn't help preserve ****.
User avatar #217 to #211 - Drstein
Reply +16 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
yea they made mistakes, but welcome to the club of being human, and thanks to both Christian monks and Arabic scholars, alot of information was saved, if not for both of these groups a lot of ancients sources would be lost , but of course if evidence disproving they didnt preserve anything confronts you, you will just thumb me down and stay ignorant ...the irony..
#569 to #217 - zickenlotto
Reply +4 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
User avatar #377 to #217 - ViXi
Reply +1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
lol get that finger off the comma key. Dayum.
#215 to #211 - anon id: 75257667
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
He's saying the monks preserved the writings of previous people, and he's right. As training (among other things) they would copy down/have the new monks write/copy down information...
#216 to #207 - anon id: 4b623b3f
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
You also shouldn't give a lot of credit to the corrupt monks of the time. Would of been nice if they could of taught their communities how to write and read instead of wasting time telling fairy tales.
User avatar #235 to #207 - angrygorrira
Reply +14 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Sigh.... The majority of Greek and Roman texts were saved by the Persians and other middle eastern cultures. No one give them credit for ****....
User avatar #250 to #235 - Drstein
Reply +4 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
I did in my lower post >_>, and they were very good at keeping text, especially Aristotle
#44 - TheBagel
Reply +45 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
Christianity actually saved most of literature during the dark ages, because priest were of a select few who could read. (They would copy each book by hand) Also, if not for the Crusades, there would be no Renaissance, so we would be even further back. The middle east had no Dark Ages, and it looks like they're doing great right now! Stop blaming Christianity on things that you don't understand. I'm sick of uneducated mongoloids like this getting Front Page just because its ant-Christianity. By the way, this has been posted about a dozen times now. You're not original, OP. You're a sad little mad, and you have my pity.

Here come the Red Thumbs...
User avatar #683 to #44 - Chuckaholic
Reply -3 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
How did the crusades affect the Renaissance? Much of it was to do with people looking beyond the church for explanations of phenomena whereas the crusades where the slaughter of innocent people to steal their holy land so they could live there. Most of the books kept were kept in the middle east. You need to state your reasoning behind the renaissance claim as you didn't prove it and it sounds highly unlikely.
The middle east is a different scenario as it has been affected a terrible amount by the 2 world wars as well as constant changes of power, changing borders and many wars in the past few years.
#60 to #44 - anon id: 683eb588
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
It is true that Christianity advanced science in some ways. However, many churches, especially in Europe, looked down upon science. Many attempted to stop it, leading to some knowledge being lost at certain points.

The graph is inaccurate, yes, but some points of it still stand.
User avatar #378 to #44 - theninjakai
Reply +2 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
You sir, are completely correct.

They also helped with Education, and believe it or not...Science.
#558 to #44 - whiteyswag
Reply +2 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
#56 to #44 - dwarfman
Reply +9 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
Atheists aren't the brightest of people. They just love attention. Pic completely related.
#61 to #56 - anon id: 683eb588
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
What's up guys, I heard we were talking about Christianity-
**** YOU STALIN, surrender to my interpretation of Christianity!
#62 to #61 - dwarfman
Reply +5 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
Silence! Go crying back to your art instructor!
User avatar #685 to #56 - Chuckaholic
Reply -3 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
What? Seriously. He was an atheist but he never did anything in the name of atheism or due to atheism or defending atheist values. You're point makes no sense.
#92 - jmrking **User deleted account**
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#95 to #92 - speightsix **User deleted account**
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#588 - I Am Monkey
Reply +37 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
The fact that this post continues to make the front page astounds me.
Anyone with an 8th grader's knowledge of history could blow this argument to pieces.

Christianity held a lot of power during this period because it could still function without a central government. Christians actually preserved knowledge in Monasteries by transcribing texts. Without those Monks Western Civilization would have basically reset.

The Dark Ages were caused by the collapse of the Roman Empire, everyone knows that. Many factors contributed the long period of stagnation that followed, none of them Christianity. A minor Ice Age made farming difficult and plagues ravaged the impoverished people. Europe pretty much had to sit on ass until conditions improved.

For those that don't know, the Roman Empire maintained it's prosperity by going on campaign. They would conquer neighboring territory and use the spoils to fuel their economic and political system. Once their military machine lost steam it was all over. Without the ability to win wars they completely fell apart. You can't rebuilt a system like that. It just doesn't work if without a world class army to back it. After the Empire fell Europe had to build a new system from the ground up. This took centuries and the process was exponentially slowed by plague, invasion and famine.
User avatar #622 to #588 - theshadowed
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Thank you.
#605 to #588 - Onemanretardpack
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(05/12/2012) [-]
#604 to #588 - LewdFlapjack
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(05/12/2012) [-]
#595 to #588 - neutralgray
Reply +6 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
and love.
#609 to #588 - dahahawgy
Reply +7 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
I thank you for taking the time to write all this out, and would like to inform you I read the entirety of it in Butthead's voice.
I thank you for taking the time to write all this out, and would like to inform you I read the entirety of it in Butthead's voice.
#590 to #588 - ragingbrony
Reply +10 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
This image has expired

#704 - drcroccer
Reply +36 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
As someone who studies history this hurts my brains. There's so much wrong with this on both a historical and just logical level that it'd take an entire essay to carefully explain every detail that is incorrect.

For one, the absolutely retarded notion that you can just chart scientific progress as if it were some objective game of numbers. Secondly, the fact that this chart pretends that there was no scientific progress at all during the Middle Ages. Thirdly, the notion that the 'Christian Dark Ages' lasted from the late 5th century until 1400. And, most importantly, the notion that Christianity was the cause.

I'm really not going to delve too deep into this, as that would take way too long, but I'm just going to point a few things out. For example, the Roman empire was Christian (with some minor intervals) since 380. Anyone who knows basic history knows that the cause of the Dark Ages was primarily the decline and ultimate demise of the Western Roman Empire due to political, economic and social reasons, and its replacement by Germanic kingdoms. The irony is that Christianity was one of the few things remaining from the Roman times that wasn't destroyed, and was vital to the intellectual rebuilding of Western Europe. Monasteries were centres of scientific learning and culture, and were connected to eachother as a web over Europe. They not only advanced sciences, but spread them across the Catholic world. It wasn't until much later, with the Pope becoming more powerful and the Church more centralized, that conflicts arose. Even then, it's been greatly exaggerated by post-Medieval scholars who wanted to portray the age as backwards as possible.

Next OP will try and convince us that Medieval people thought the Earth was flat, and that intellectuals only debated about the number of angels that could stand on a pin.

My faith in humanity is somewhat restored reading the comment section and seeing all the people voicing the same complaints I do.


User avatar #713 to #704 - Kajekillz
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Also during the middle ages there was great scientific advancement around the middle east in areas of medicine leaving behind the days of leeches and torturing patients rather than healing them
User avatar #716 to #713 - drcroccer
Reply +1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Indeed. The funny thing is that most things that held them back were ancient dogmas dating back to Greco-Roman times. Galen's theory of the 4 humors was basic stuff in both Christian Europe and the Islamic world until well into the 17th century, even though basic autopsies revealed it to be incorrect. Doctors would just shrug their shoulders and assume that there was something wrong with the body, rather than the ancient medical philopsophy they adhered to.
#715 to #704 - anon id: c67ef406
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Well that was a lot better than anything I could've typed out, although I was going to try.
#718 to #704 - anon id: 38bc9de1
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Thumbs up from a fellow historian. Might I add another remark? The implied continuity between the Egyptian and Greek civilization, as if the 'Greek' civilization chronologically succeeded the Egyptian one. The same counts, in a somewhat lesser extent, for the implied Greek-Roman succession as well.
User avatar #726 to #718 - drcroccer
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
That's very true as well. One can argue that the Romans made full use of the Greek knowledge and culture when Hellenic areas were incorporated into the empire, though on the other hand it has been stated that the Romans stinted some intellectual development.

The same can be said to a lesser degree about the Greco-Egyptian link. The Egyptians did, indirectly or directly, give the Greeks the alphabet and their characteristic realistic art, and it's been argued that philosophy originated in Egypt as well.

That having been said, none of these were really continuous. Not much more than the continuity between Classical and Medieval sciences anyway.
User avatar #729 to #726 - bithcwits
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(05/12/2012) [-]
The Egyptians did not give the Greeks their alphabet, the Greek alphabet is based upon the Phoenician script from the levant, which developed independently for Hieroglyphic script, and, as a set of purely phonetic symbols, differs considerably from hieroglyphic. Likewise, Hellenic art was not taken from Egypt; it was a mixture of indigenous styles and influences from across the Med.
User avatar #740 to #729 - drcroccer
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
You're right about the alphabet (not sure why I said that), but I wasn't saying that Greek art came entirely from Egypt, but that the Egyptian style influenced that of the Greeks , with archaic, very expressive statues becoming increasingly realistic, and eventually surpassing the Egyptian variants.
User avatar #742 to #740 - bithcwits
Reply +1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
The closeness of the link is debatable, partially in the motivation of the sculptors; the Egyptians were concerned with making an idealised replica of an actual person, whilst the Greeks were aiming to create THE idealised person. Egyptian sculpture was also bound by far tighter restrictions.

Moreover, the high point of Egyptian sculpture (Arguably in the Amarna period) occurred several hundred years before the high point of Greek sculpture; the period when Greek sculpture was developing was one in which Egyptian sculpture was in a serious low, the late Third Intermediate Period and the Assyrian periods. If one compares contemporaneous Mycenaean and Cretan sculpture with New Kingdom and 3rd Intermediate Period sculpture, it is noticeably different, both in style and technique. Although there was dialogue between the civilisations, as shown by finds of Hellenic/Helladic pottery in Egypt, Minoan frescoes in Avaris, and multifarious Egyptian finds across the Aegean, the influence of Egyptian styles upon Hellenic/Helladic styles appear to be quite limited.


Yay for reasoned academic discourse on Funnyjunk!
#756 to #742 - anon id: 38bc9de1
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
(same anon as four posts above this one): I love you guys. Gives me hope in humanity and the academic world.
#771 to #756 - bithcwits
Reply +1 123456789123345869
(05/13/2012) [-]
Comment Picture

#728 to #704 - bithcwits
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
From an Archaeologist, Anthropologist and Egyptologist....... The entire motiving notion behind the graph is pathetically evolutionist in its outlook, seeing civilisation as a continuous chain of progress towards some ill defined goal of "SCIENCE!", which it quite emphatically is not.
Moreover, the implied continuity of Egyptian, Greek and Roman "civilisation" is moronic, since the latter two knew very little about the Egyptians (Whose advances are often overstated, and who, in the later years of their culture, were almost as clueless as the others,), as is the absurd shift in locus of "Scientific advancement" from the Near East and Mediterranean to Western Europe, which is likewise a rather sad case of Eurocentricism.
Of such an outlook, I can only say that "It belongs in a museum."



TL:DR OP can suck a dick
#315 - LewdFlapjack
Reply +31 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
A lot of technical advances were made in the middle east and asia during this period too, especially in navigation and math (ever heard of the Arabic numeral system? we use it every day.) My point is that the *European* ( not Christian) Dark ages did not cause that much of a hole in advancement because other parts of the world, the middle east and asia, was having a golden age of technology. So in summary, yes, the european dark ages caused a gap in *european* technological advances, but not overall advances worldwide. This post contains massive amounts of ignorance.

I'm a history and poli sci major :3
User avatar #335 to #315 - masterbob
Reply -1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
the middle east and asia were not christian though, the hundreds of years of scientific suppression and massive depopulation and social change contributed to this, so yes, the christian dark ages and european dark ages are the same thing for the most part, but without the contribution of europe to the asian and middle eastern advancements we lost out on a lot.
#350 to #335 - LewdFlapjack
Reply -1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
My point is that that graph is extremely inaccurate.
User avatar #352 to #350 - masterbob
Reply -1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
its not that inaccurate besides the fact that it is just the christian dark ages.
#357 to #352 - LewdFlapjack
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
The shape of the graph is innacurate. Not nearly as much information was lost in europe during this time as is shown. If the shape of the graph was accurate, it would be safe to assume we would have no knowledge of anything between the egyptian era and the dark ages.
User avatar #368 to #357 - masterbob
Reply +1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
ookay i feel like im with you know.
#358 to #357 - LewdFlapjack
Reply -1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
If anything there would be a slight dip.
#345 to #315 - classik
Reply -1 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
thank you for setting it right (also to OP, i'm pretty sure the huge decline in advancements were due to the plague, not Christianity)
#463 to #345 - anon id: 11f12147
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
It might also have something to do with the fact that the Roman Empire split in two and lost control over it's territories and vikings and marauders came about. People were trying to save themselves from savages and thieves. That may have something to do with it.
#320 to #315 - anon id: a5be3199
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
I like you. I hope you have a good day.
User avatar #337 to #315 - spikethepony
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Can.... Can I give you a hug?
#362 to #337 - LewdFlapjack
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Just for you, Spike.
#369 to #362 - spikethepony
Reply +2 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
*currently overwhelmed by exaggerated feel.*
*currently overwhelmed by exaggerated feel.*
User avatar #63 - sloar
Reply +26 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
Promotes science yet it does not have a scale on its Y axis ...
#64 to #63 - excallibur **User deleted account**
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User avatar #138 to #63 - mattythebeaver
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
There's not really a unit for scientific advances.
He could have used milestones.
User avatar #66 to #63 - redwolfradolf
Reply +2 123456789123345869
(05/11/2012) [-]
He's right you know ^
#172 - RodasAPC
Reply +22 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Truth is. If the Bible had dragons it would be 100x better.
Truth is. If the Bible had dragons it would be 100x better.
#176 to #172 - iamphoenix
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
There's a part with dragons in the apocrypha.
User avatar #177 to #176 - Mememaster
Reply +4 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Not only that, but Jesus was a baby at the time, giving the dragons the cold shoulder like a badass
#178 to #177 - iamphoenix
Reply 0 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
"Cause I'm Jesus, *****, ain't no dragons ******* wit' it." - The Book of Dragons and **** 2: 13, New Ghetto Standard Edition.
#198 - allgoodnamesrgone
Reply +19 123456789123345869
(05/12/2012) [-]
Christians:0   
Atheists:0   
Goku:1
Christians:0
Atheists:0
Goku:1
#341 to #198 - rottengrits **User deleted account**
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