I never said what you quoted at the end. Please - #157494515 added by elcreepo at Age

Reply +5 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

The reason for this, and I'm not saying I approve of it at all, is because the hormone therapy and surgery works best if you do it while young, otherwise they get Jenner'd. Also apparently they use the defense that it reduces the rate of suicides among trans teens.

Personally I don't think that particular surgery should even be legal. We don't allow surgery for people who suffer from body integrity disorder and xenomelia where your brain rejects your limbs' existence and you feel like you need to be an amputee , we instead treat the disorder. Why should it be different for reproductive bits? Dypshoria is dysphoria regardless of if it's a limb or a penis.

#124 to #64 - Elk

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

... Do you seriously struggle to see the difference between the two?

#128 to #124 - elcreepo

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

No, because there is no difference. Either way you're destroying a functioning healthy part of someone's body.

#129 to #128 - Elk

Reply +1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

No arms/legs vs different genitals lol...

#131 to #129 - anon id: 393797c9

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

wait, are you telling me you don't use your genitals to walk around?
What are you, some kind of nerd?

#76 to #64 - vellichor

Reply -1 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

Before 18, they don't really prescribe the kinds of hormones you're thinking about (usually, anyways. There are always unusual circumstances, but we'll stick to the norm). They just prescribe puberty-blockers, which don't feminize or androgenize. They just stop the body from doing either of those things. They can be safely stopped and the child will continue to undergo puberty as normal.

As for surgery, I don't see why we don't allow people to have limbs removed. As long as it can be done safely- and be shown to improve the QoL of the majority of people undergoing it, I don't really see the problem.

#111 to #76 - elcreepo

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(03/20/2017) [-]

Well then why are they authorizing the surgery in some states if they don't prescribe the hormone treatment? It's usually the last step before surgery.

As for improving the quality of life, ha, no. Removing a healthy limb renders a person disabled for life. It is against everything in modern medicine, and affects tax payers who would need to use their money to pay for these people's mental illness' ramifications. That's why we don't do it.

As for transgender, you're putting them at risk of severe complications, especially as they age. You're basically playing to their delusions instead of treating them, with massive expenses involved, and if the 'penis' becomes necrotic or the breast implants explode and become septic, you're potentially disabling them for life, which affects tax payers.

It'd be somewhat okay to allow this in 18+ individuals with a contract saying that any complications they get as a result of their decision are at their expense. This goes for any healthy person going through optional surgeries.

But when the surgery is done to a kid who is naturally going to be dysphoric anyway look me in the eyes and tell me that at 12 you weren't insecure about something for whatever reason , when we won't even let that kid drink alcohol due to the life-altering consequences... it's wrong, and the kid should not be allowed that decision until they're 18. Regardless of suicide rates, regardless of quality of life, and regardless of how much therapy they went through. They are not capable of making that decision rationally, nor can they fully understand the complications. When you get your wisdom teeth removed, or your tonsils out, your parents had to sign their consent for that, same goes for any other surgery. But as trans is a personal decision, parents can't and should not legally consent. So why are some states giving 13 year olds the right to consent to that one, MAJOR surgery?

Not to mention, the laws haven't even fully caught up with trans people, so the discrimination and other issues they'll face need to be understood and faced long before they decide to **** their reproductive system over.

Even after 18+ though, the treatment should never be to play to the delusions- we don't do it for any other mental illness but this one. It should be therapy, with the knowledge that this behavior is unnatural and abnormal. Yeah therapy sucks and I can speak from experience, yeah ****** hard, and yeah you'll be miserable, that's why you're there.

Anxiety sufferers are not generally allowed to just stay locked in their homes, especially if they're children again, I speak from experience . Same goes for depressed people. Schizophrenics are not told their voices are real and normal. People with Munchhausen's and hypochondria are never to be told their pain is real.

Does it decrease their quality of life? Yeah, while they're struggling with it. And many do kill themselves. But the alternative would harm them even worse, and not only that, it'd harm society. Also, regardless of treatment, many still kill themselves- it's no different for trans, because they know deep down that they can never truly be the gender they wanted to be. Those who opt to lop off a limb aren't happy, either, because they now have to accept that they let their illness get the better of them. In some cases it can even result in a worsening of the condition, leading them to try and amputate all their limbs or blind themselves or go deaf.

The difference is that people accept and understand that people with other mental illnesses need help, but when it comes to gender dysphoria suddenly it's okay and they've been 'born wrong' and all other matter of nonscientific mumbo jumbo.

#125 to #111 - vellichor

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

You're going to have to show me sources of people who are not born intersex getting surgery before hormones on any large scale.

The small scale is harder to answer- a person's medical needs differs, and is kept confidential. So in those rare few cases where it does happen (and I don't know of any, but I'll accept that there's probably been a few just through sheer odds), it'd be up to that person and their doctor to disclose the information.

Regarding QoL, then that'd be the difference. Surgery has been shown, for the majority of people, to improve QoL.

The treatment actually is the surgery and hormones. That's the medically recognized treatment- other methods have proven unsuccessful, and generally only work to worsen the issue. With the penis, I'm not sure what you're referring to. However, I'll say this- every surgery has inherent risks to it. That doesn't mean that we simply forego treatment, especially if the risks are small. As for BA, that's not really a trans thing. The breasts form naturally from the estrogen- some people will get BA, sure, but that's just a thing among all women.

Dysphoric is not insecurity. It's not "oh, I'm nervous". It's the brain being mismatched with the body. The brain of a person with GD is not the brain of their sex. All that point shows is that you don't know about what you're speaking against.

"regardless of suicide rates, we shouldn't let people get treatment"
aaaand that's where I'm stopping. This is showing you don't actually give a **** about treatment or people, and would rather people just die than do something you personally find uncomfortable.

#127 to #125 - elcreepo

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

I never said what you quoted at the end. Please reread because I'm not continuing this discussion if you refuse.

You're equating pandering to their delusions with treatment. It is NOT treatment. Treatment is therapy, and other psychiatric care.

But nice, put words in my mouth.

#132 to #127 - anon id: 393797c9

Reply 0 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

"I'm not continuing this discussion"
lol you wouldn't be continuing this discussion anyways dude, the other person already said that they weren't continuing

#135 to #132 - elcreepo

Reply +2 123456789123345869

(03/20/2017) [-]

You'd be surprised how many people say that and then don't