Title. lets enjoy the fact the person who posted this named himself unsaturated mangravy. I think that if they make : certian illegal, they should matte men des asdf
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Title

Title. lets enjoy the fact the person who posted this named himself unsaturated mangravy. I think that if they make : certian illegal, they should matte men des

lets enjoy the fact the person who posted this named himself unsaturated mangravy

Tags: asdf
I think that if they make : certian illegal, they should matte men deserting
women who they got pregnant illegal as well. Because if a woman can' t
bani: out at a pregnancy a man shouldn' t be able to either.
256, 064 name at 'at f
...
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Views: 53841
Favorited: 69
Submitted: 01/17/2014
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Comments(323):

[ 323 comments ]
What do you think? Give us your opinion. Anonymous comments allowed.
#17 - chexlemeneux (01/18/2014) [+] (102 replies)
stickied by levelninetynine
But what about the opposite?    
Let's say a young lady gets pregnant and she doesn't want to have the baby, but the father does. She can get an abortion without a problem and the man has not legal standing to say otherwise.    
But on the flip side (as we all know), if she gets pregnant and wants to keep it and he doesn't he is still "responsible for his choices" and must pay child support for the next 20 years even though he wasn't ready to be a father.    
In my opinion, if a woman can get an abortion without the fathers consent, then a father should be allowed to opt-out of being a dad. In doing so, he wouldn't be responsible for child support and other responsibilities, but he would also be barred (for life) from being a part of that child's life. He wouldn't be allowed any visitation or legal standing as a father (i.e. taxes, student loans, ect.) without the mother's written consent.
But what about the opposite?
Let's say a young lady gets pregnant and she doesn't want to have the baby, but the father does. She can get an abortion without a problem and the man has not legal standing to say otherwise.
But on the flip side (as we all know), if she gets pregnant and wants to keep it and he doesn't he is still "responsible for his choices" and must pay child support for the next 20 years even though he wasn't ready to be a father.
In my opinion, if a woman can get an abortion without the fathers consent, then a father should be allowed to opt-out of being a dad. In doing so, he wouldn't be responsible for child support and other responsibilities, but he would also be barred (for life) from being a part of that child's life. He wouldn't be allowed any visitation or legal standing as a father (i.e. taxes, student loans, ect.) without the mother's written consent.
User avatar #2 - thechosentroll (01/17/2014) [+] (24 replies)
stickied by levelninetynine
Technically they're forced to pay child support and spend time with it. The only exception are fathers who literally run the **** away and can't be tracked down.
User avatar #37 - levelninetynine (01/18/2014) [-]
stickied by levelninetynine
I thank the majority for making this more of a discussion than an argument. Good on ya for helping each other understand our rights(as confusing as they seem to be)in relationships.
User avatar #1 - pikapimp (01/17/2014) [-]
it already is illegal, try not paying your child support
User avatar #293 to #1 - crazehtoast (01/18/2014) [-]
It's only illegal if a complaint is filed, iirc.
In Texas, at least. Dad hasn't payed child support for a while, but that's because there's an understanding that it isn't really needed. I'm a one-in-a-million where my divorced parents actually get along.
User avatar #4 to #1 - barenoizedub (01/17/2014) [-]
My dad didn't pay any of mine, he left before I was born and I've never even seen a picture of him, He actually left the country...
User avatar #33 to #4 - twiztidxson (01/18/2014) [-]
The obvious thing to do now is to hunt him down and kill him.
But seriously what a dick.
User avatar #29 to #4 - pikapimp (01/18/2014) [-]
well if he left the country he doesnt have to pay
#25 to #1 - anon (01/18/2014) [-]
My step dad hasn't payed child support for my half sister ever. She's 12 now.   
He has three cars and 5 other adopted kids, has had two new wives, lives off of his "PTSD" from vietnam while taking all of his kids to shooting ranges every other weekend.   
The courts haven't done a thing.
My step dad hasn't payed child support for my half sister ever. She's 12 now.
He has three cars and 5 other adopted kids, has had two new wives, lives off of his "PTSD" from vietnam while taking all of his kids to shooting ranges every other weekend.
The courts haven't done a thing.
#197 to #25 - anon (01/18/2014) [-]
Pics or gtfo
#269 to #197 - anon (01/18/2014) [-]
#13 - sirbutterballs (01/18/2014) [-]
I like this idea.   
Half of it because it seems (morally) right   
Half because it'd be fun to see all this 			****		 play out IRL    
 It's pretty common for people to get pregnant in mah high school.
I like this idea.
Half of it because it seems (morally) right
Half because it'd be fun to see all this **** play out IRL
It's pretty common for people to get pregnant in mah high school.
User avatar #31 - eatherbreather (01/18/2014) [-]
All the considered and informed arguments in the comments are valid. No one has yet advocated there be more anal and blowjobs to help avoid this mess in the first place.
#30 - lyiat (01/18/2014) [-]
It's... already.... illegal......
It's... already.... illegal......
#226 to #30 - imanawesomepossum (01/18/2014) [-]
not where I live!
#3 - taurusguy (01/17/2014) [-]
If you made abortion illegal the amount of "accidental" hits to the stomach would skyrocket.
#39 to #3 - rdobet (01/18/2014) [-]
Or the amount of vacations to Mexico
User avatar #5 to #3 - demigodofmadness (01/17/2014) [-]
Or the amount of women "accidentally" falling down stairs
#6 to #5 - taurusguy (01/17/2014) [-]
Or the amount of women "accidentally" getting stabbed the **** out of their stomachs and having their dead bodies burned.
User avatar #196 to #5 - jubbehhh (01/18/2014) [-]
You wait until they fall down the stairs? Bitch I just shove those hoes down
#94 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I don't get it, abortion shouldn't, forgive me, MUST NOT, ever become illegal...   
   
Mistakes happen, RAPE happens. No one wants to be forced to raise the child they have no time, ability or even love for. And no child deserves to be raised by incompetent idiot or by unloving parent.
I don't get it, abortion shouldn't, forgive me, MUST NOT, ever become illegal...

Mistakes happen, RAPE happens. No one wants to be forced to raise the child they have no time, ability or even love for. And no child deserves to be raised by incompetent idiot or by unloving parent.
User avatar #163 to #94 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
Actually, since the moment when the two DNA strand (spermatozoon's and ovum's) combine, we have a new human being. not adult nor child, but human
I'm studying biology, and that's what we have at least in the other animals
#164 to #163 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
Somehow I have a feeling that you had the need to say that even though I never mentioned anything about that part of the argument, but very well: Not every ejaculation deserves a name.

As far as I care, it's something that should be decided in first few weeks of pregnancy (if aware of it) or when first aware of it (Yes, I was on this site long enough to see that women who aborted a child she wasn't even aware it was in her, weird **** happens, we can't always predict everything or dare to claim we know boundaries of human stupidity).
#170 to #164 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
What I said is that even if it's a rape (what would be a tragedy), the fetus is as human as a newborn, so we could aks him when he is like 5 years if he wants to live in that situation or not, and the if he says no, whether taking him to a foster care or just kill him, but the child chooses.
All this is a biologist point of view, I don't know about rights and all that stuff
#206 to #170 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I am not bashing you down for voicing your opinion. You are watching it from one viewpoint and as far as I've deducted you are interested in more...

Whilst that all sounds very noble and idealistic, I doubt that raped 12yo girl looks forward to giving birth to a child just so child could vote 5 years later on it. And while you mentioned 5 years, are you truly certain that 5yo child is capable of giving such life threatening decisions? Again, your cause is noble, but allow me to hit low: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
User avatar #231 to #170 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/18/2014) [-]
yea a 5 year old is going to understand that complex situation.
User avatar #239 to #231 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
Then better not asking him and choose by yoursel, right?
And I said 5 years as an age not so late but not so fast, but if you want, you can ask him when he is 16.
User avatar #246 to #239 - hoponthefeelstrain (01/18/2014) [-]
Your parents make a lot of decisions for you, they have legal right to. They could pierce your ears, circumcise you, chose your name. This is just another choice that parents have.
User avatar #250 to #246 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
I think your life it's not like your name or to pierce your ears.
User avatar #204 to #163 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
No, you have a zygote, then a fetus. A fetus can't be considered a human until it's able to live outside of the mother's womb (after two trimesters usually). You should probably study more.
User avatar #217 to #204 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
Then nobody it's a human until he is 6-7 years, when he could be able to survive without the protecction of the mother.
User avatar #224 to #217 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
For a biology student you don't seem to understand biology well. A fetus only becomes a human when it can survive outside of the womb. Before that it's a fetus.

By your logic, nobody is a human since they need police forces and governments to protect them.
#240 to #224 - anon (01/18/2014) [-]
You could perhaps say that a fetus early on isn't alive yet, but aftter some time when the fetus is beginning to move and it has a beating heart (around 4 weeks), it is very much alive and considered a young human being in development. I personally am not sure on wether arbortion should be allowed freely or not, but I do believe we should treat lightly on how it's handled. The woman bearing the child should propably have the final word, but then again it's also the man's baby.
User avatar #242 to #240 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
No, it's not alive since it's still dependent entirely on the mother for everything, even oxygen. It's not alive nor human until it can be brought to term, after about two trimesters. You'd be very hard pressed to find a legitimate scientist that differs from this view.

I can't argue there since that's all opinion.
User avatar #236 to #224 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
By my logic we are humans since we have our own DNA, a new DNA in history, that wont be made any more.
There's no a point in those 6 months when you can tell "aaaaand now it's a human", the only possible point in my opinion is the moment when our parent's DNAs "mix in one".
User avatar #241 to #236 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
New DNA has nothing to do with whether a fetus is human or not.

Yes, there is. When a fetus can brought to term is when it is scientifically considered a human, regardless of your "opinion" on the matter.
User avatar #259 to #241 - diedede (01/18/2014) [-]
To determine different species, nowadays everyone sees the genetic code, so it has to do.
If someone builds an incubator that recreates the womb's conditions, then a fetus would be human before?
User avatar #262 to #259 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
This is advanced stupid, I give up. Hopefully you don't have any position of scientific clout in the future.
User avatar #289 to #94 - novembersky **User deleted account** (01/18/2014) [-]
I personally believe the only circumstance where an abortion would be okay is if it would kill the mother.
Yes, if a woman is impregnated by a rapist, that would be terrible, and she certainly doesn't deserve to bare the pain of child birth; no woman should be punished for the actions of a rapist; but neither should the baby.
The woman would feel a lot of pain, but the odds are, she wouldn't die. And if she doesn't want to raise it, she can just put it up for adoption.
That's just my opinion though.
User avatar #295 to #289 - shannonrw (01/18/2014) [-]
I disagree, because a woman who is impregnated by her rapist usually faces severe emotional trauma from having to carry the rapist's child for nine months, being reminded of the rape every day for nine months is just one reason for this. I'd like to not really get into it, but making a raped woman carry the child is actually evil and very cruel. I would never wish that upon anyone.
User avatar #296 to #295 - novembersky **User deleted account** (01/18/2014) [-]
I understand that.
#292 to #289 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
As I fully respect it, besides that "would kill a girl/women" part, let's just skip to the adoption part since I am currently more interested in it.

We lack kids for adoption? I don't know where you come from, but at my country kids that don't get adopted are ****** (and not in a nice way), and a lot of them don't get adopted. Less then 10% get lucky enough to be adopted.
User avatar #298 to #292 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
Still better then no chance at all at a happy and fulfilling life.
#299 to #298 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
That is just one side of the argument, when everything is considered, I would not dare make abortion illegal.
User avatar #300 to #299 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
I would only have abortions legal as serious medical procedures where the women's life is in danger. All other events you are destroying a human life out of convenience, and that should be illegal. The argument of, "well they'll grow up unwanted and become violent', or they are the product of rape, hold no bearing. No one should be held accountable for their fathers sins and their mothers mistakes.
#304 to #300 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I would extend it to the rape part. Here's a little story:

Say I am a 24 year old girl (I am not even going to be unfair and start this story as 10 year old girl), finishing my college, just got a great offer for a job, have friends, am a professional volleyball player... And now some cocksucker beats the **** out of me, rapes me and leaves me pregnant... Now, I am forced to go trough birth (a very ****** painfull expirience, so I was informed) to a child of a man who raped me, meanwhile I should just cancel my sports, job, college, social life while this little **** rots inside me. Think I might wanna jump a flight of stairs couple of times? Socialize with coathangers? Ask a favour from a fresh med student? Not every woman wants to give birth you know, and now I am forced to do so... **** you and your anti abortion law!


Just speaking figuratively, of course.
User avatar #305 to #304 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
The thing about rape is that there are things called rape kits and post evidence collection they treat for possible virus and give an estrogen boost to the body to prevent pregnancy. Also that was a completely EMOTIONALLY charged argument. No matter how you look at it you are destroying a human life out of spite for the innocent's father's sins.
#311 to #305 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I was just on a roll, felt like the best way to paint it.
In my humble opinion, no woman should ever be forced to go trough pregnancy.

Let us agree to disagree, I see neither of us giving in anywhere.
User avatar #312 to #311 - tealcanaan (01/18/2014) [-]
k bro.
User avatar #294 to #292 - novembersky **User deleted account** (01/18/2014) [-]
Ah. I completely overlooked that. Not even considering something like that, thank god I'm not a world leader, eh?
I don't know, abortion just seems immoral to me, though I suppose we'd be doing the child a favor if the odds are that their life would be miserable if they were born.
The whole matter is ****** up, really. It's just a shame that we have to deal with things like rape and irresponsible sex that make this an issue in the first place, but that's the world we live in, I suppose.
To be honest, I'm not completely sure what my views on abortion are, as I think about the subject a lot and tend to change my opinions.
#297 to #294 - Blasphemer (01/18/2014) [-]
I have stated in my post merely that we SHOULD NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES make abortion illegal, the world is too ****** for something like that... I am in no way supporting people who want to get abortion just for the fun of it... It's a tragic event that is sometimes a convenient necessity... Never to be supported, but never to be made illegal...
#27 - anon (01/18/2014) [-]
Someone has never heard of child support.
#71 - Greevon (01/18/2014) [-]
I think both should have an equal say over the fate of the would-be child. If the man wants the child, but the woman doesn't, then the pregnancy can be carried to a point in which it can be transferred to a viable surrogate (of course, not all men can find a surrogate, but at least I'm trying to come up with a solution here)   
but the woman would be exempt of child care payments, just as the man should be exempt from it if he decides that he doesn't want the child, but the woman carries it anyway.   
Maybe we should treat it less as "A MAN" and "A WOMAN" having a dispute over a child and think of it as "TWO PEOPLE" who have a disagreement over something that is both equally there own.
I think both should have an equal say over the fate of the would-be child. If the man wants the child, but the woman doesn't, then the pregnancy can be carried to a point in which it can be transferred to a viable surrogate (of course, not all men can find a surrogate, but at least I'm trying to come up with a solution here)
but the woman would be exempt of child care payments, just as the man should be exempt from it if he decides that he doesn't want the child, but the woman carries it anyway.
Maybe we should treat it less as "A MAN" and "A WOMAN" having a dispute over a child and think of it as "TWO PEOPLE" who have a disagreement over something that is both equally there own.
#175 to #71 - stalini (01/18/2014) [-]
yeah, those are my thoughts exactly.

But when I said it last time on FJ, I got thumbed down to oblivion.
#237 to #175 - anon (01/18/2014) [-]
They're savages, these people. They'd eat one another if they didn't all have spears to stick one another with, the fear of mutual death is enough to keep them lazy towards most, but if one shows weakness...
User avatar #41 - tittylovin (01/18/2014) [-]
I think that if women choose to keep the baby when the father doesn't want it, he should be exempt from having to pay child support.
User avatar #89 - heartlessrobot (01/18/2014) [-]
That's punishing the guy twice. Girl pokes holes in condom to get knocked up, he's ******* stuck with the little **** unless he falcon punches her in the stomach.
#7 - zantores (01/17/2014) [-]
Yeah, but there's the 'not mine' claim... in theory a baby can be any guy's, but if it comes out the girl damn sure its hers.

Hows mandatory paternity testing? Solves that right quick and keeps cheaters honest too
#243 - dasbrot (01/18/2014) [-]
MFW comment section.
#150 - leonidasking (01/18/2014) [-]
Use a ******* condom! I know it sucks, but it sucks a lot more to become a father when you're not ready.
#155 to #150 - chexlemeneux (01/18/2014) [-]
Condoms aren't 100% effective, they can and do fail.
Condoms aren't 100% effective, they can and do fail.
User avatar #157 to #155 - sweetjessierose (01/18/2014) [-]
That's what happened to my parents 25 years ago.
#172 to #157 - jubbehhh (01/18/2014) [-]
You're a mistake.
User avatar #315 to #172 - sweetjessierose (01/19/2014) [-]
t-that's not how you spell 'surprise'
User avatar #210 to #150 - nigeltheoutlaw (01/18/2014) [-]
Condom and birth control for the girl, just in case of accidents.
User avatar #120 - huszti (01/18/2014) [-]
ever thought of this?

chick becomes pregnant, both want to keep the kid. chick goes crazy or just breaks up with the guy, whatever floats your boat and doesn't allow the father to even see his child. yes, that happens, too. more often than you think

lets make this illegal, too. once the woman gets pregnant both are forced to live with each other forever. welcome to the middle ages, *************
#114 - sedativechunk (01/18/2014) [-]
**sedativechunk rolls 9** Magic conch, will I ever get a bitch pregnant?
User avatar #124 to #114 - nopenopejustnope (01/18/2014) [-]
**nopenopejustnope rolls 4** will I ever see the sun?
User avatar #125 to #124 - nopenopejustnope (01/18/2014) [-]
**nopenopejustnope rolls 0** Will you just give me a normal answer?
0
#248 to #114 - metacobalion has deleted their comment [-]
0
#249 to #248 - metacobalion has deleted their comment [-]
User avatar #251 to #114 - metacobalion (01/18/2014) [-]
**metacobalion rolls 4** will I ever stop procrastinating?
User avatar #252 to #114 - metacobalion (01/18/2014) [-]
**metacobalion rolls 8** I'm getting sick of your **** magic conch. Will I ever stop procrastinating?
User avatar #253 to #252 - metacobalion (01/18/2014) [-]
As you wish Magic Conch
User avatar #132 to #114 - albertjester (01/18/2014) [-]
**albertjester rolls 2** will anti-abortion preasure groups ever gain enough inlfuence to have a noticable negative effect on abortion legislation?
User avatar #133 to #132 - albertjester (01/18/2014) [-]
oh good. thanks conch
#122 to #114 - zorach (01/18/2014) [-]
YFW
YFW
User avatar #46 - delphine (01/18/2014) [-]
OOOOR we could promote the **** out of contraceptives and offer free birth control to anyone, and educate people on how to use them effectively, specially teach about reasons that can render the BCP to be ineffective (the reason I happened was because my mother went on antibiotics and didn't realize it negated her pill) so there are fewer unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
#59 to #46 - sgtxrootbeer (01/18/2014) [-]
well, i really don't think that my tax dollars should go to some couple who are like a pair of rabbits. if they wanna **** , let them. they will not **** on my dollar. these are recreational drugs, therefore i refuse to pay for it
User avatar #75 to #59 - delphine (01/18/2014) [-]
The difference is that recreational drugs to not produce new humans. People are going to **** whether you want them to or not. Would you rather pay for their birth control or pay for the welfare that they and their child will probably need, plus money for schooling? (schools get a certain amount of money for each child that attends their school. it's more than birth control and it comes from our tax dollars)
#79 to #75 - sgtxrootbeer (01/18/2014) [-]
the problem is this faggy couple is spending my tax dollars. i dont mind them doing stuff, its that they are practically stealing money so they can **** and raise a child they prolly never wanted
User avatar #86 to #79 - delphine (01/18/2014) [-]
So how would you suggest solving the problem? You're going to pay for them no matter what.

Personally, I'd be all for sterilizing criminals and drug addicts so they don't bring any innocent kids into the dysfunctional lives they've chosen, but society frowns on that idea.
#91 to #86 - sgtxrootbeer (01/18/2014) [-]
make them pay outta pocket for birth control, if they need wellfare, they dont get it. (they can go to charity, but not the forced collection of the goverment)

ZERO goverment assistance. charity? maybe, goverment? no!
User avatar #81 to #46 - I Am Monkey (01/18/2014) [-]
I don't want to know how you found out that spoiler part.
User avatar #84 to #81 - delphine (01/18/2014) [-]
Well now I'm going to tell you anyway (ha!)



Mom told me. (she wanted me, just not until she'd finished her graduate degree) My mom's a good mother, and actually educated me on contraception and being safe before I was old enough to be sexually active. She didn't let me to be thrown into the world unprepared. BCP works almost 99.99% of the time if used correctly. The only reason they say it works PART of the time is because people use it wrong. It won't work if:

-You're on antibiotics
-You've either vomited or had diarrhea the extra acid in your digestive system prevents it from absorbing the hormones in the pill

-You don't take it at EXACTLY the same time every day. Hormones flush out of your body within 24 hours. If you wait too long to take it, you will ovulate.
-You take it with grapefruit again, acid won't let your body absorb it right


And now if you ever become a woman or have a gf on the pill, you will know how not to get pregnant.
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